Created Players Question

Bryan Swartz · 03-31-2007, 04:12 PM

I tried a few searches and was unable to find this.

I have a fictional league with significantly reduced PCMs. Every time I make a new league using this template the results are pretty consistent, but created players in the next few years don't seem to be completely respecting the PCM settings. For example league leaders in batting are always initially in the .300 range, but within a few years there's new players hitting .450 year-in, year-out, on a regular basis. Is there some setting I'm unaware of to force the game to respect the PCMs when new players are added, or am I missing something here? It isn't a talent increase issue, as I turned frequency down to 1 there and it had little/no effect. A new guy comes in sometime during the first few years, wins the batting title his first year, then proceeds to hit well over .400 and sometimes even over .500 for the course of his career.

Curtis · 04-07-2007, 02:00 AM

I probably shouldn't even mention this, but have you tried setting your MLEs to match your PCMs?

Solack · 04-13-2007, 10:21 PM

My understanding on how these things works is thus:

With PCMs, that only determines how a player might do when he is created. This is for potential and current ratings. However, over the course of a sim both those things change. So, while you might have put the PCMs really low, through the natural course of development the player might actually get a lot higher potential and current ratings then you intend, and you will then have players who are doing extremely well in a league that you don't want players like that.

Which is where the League Totals come into play. If you don't want that many hits, homeruns, ect. it's MUCH better to change these. They will artificially make the league a lot worse/better then it is. You still might occasionally have that anomalous player, but they should not be too far outside the norm.

Now, that's how I understand things as I have read them. You can check the manual it I believe it actually goes into a little more detail on these things because I read a discussion about it when Steve was trying to put together that part of the manual.

Bryan Swartz · 04-18-2007, 03:11 AM

I left this alone until the patch, but first off thanks for the comments/suggestions. I haven't changed the MLEs(at least, not from what I originally intentionally set them at) ... because I want to gradually bump up the talent levels over time. I don't want to artificially 'hold down' player's numbers -- that's not the issue. The issue is the game deciding the PCMs I have set aren't appropriate all on it's own. Neither is this an issue of a player's developing to grow beyond the norms and become a standout -- as I said I set talent changes to 1. But besides which, that isn't what's happening.

Last setup is a representative example: Nobody hits better than .325 the first five years. Sixth year, a second-year player hits .453, with another rookie batting .398. The next year, same players hit .518 and .461 respectively. On dozens of startups you never see these kind of players created(even as mature veterans) immediately ... but within a few years they always pop up. Only conclusion I can come to is that the game does not PCMs the same when generating players in out years as it does originally -- so I'm wondering why this is and what if anything I can do about it. I have looked at everything the manual has to say about this and it would appear that it should be working the way I expect it to, but it isn't.

Zeyes · 04-18-2007, 03:12 PM

Is it just a handful of standouts, or do the overall offensive levels of your league go up significantly, too?

Bryan Swartz · 04-18-2007, 03:33 PM

The rest of the league seems to stay pretty constant. It's just creating a handful of guys who are way too talented.

Nutlaw · 05-12-2007, 08:47 PM

Bryan, are you continuing to have any trouble with this issue? If so, could you provide us with some additional concrete numbers that we could take to Markus so that the issue could be adequately addressed? Thanks.

Bryan Swartz · 05-13-2007, 12:53 AM

I haven't been playing since after the patch, when I tried it again as stated. I have tried PCMs anywhere from 0.2 to 0.7 and I still get it(though obviously when they are set at 0.7 it is less 'obvious' because there's a lower comparative ceiling).

Trying it again tonight, using my original setup(a 4-team Australian league). I find the fact that it happens quickly in a league this small significant, since it would tend to indicate that if you had a large league, you would have larger numbers of excessively talented players. For this test, we'll go with 0.400 PCMs across the board. I will post results as soon as I get some, just wanted to make it known that I'm still quite interested in this issue.

Nutlaw · 05-13-2007, 09:49 AM

Great. Any information you can provide would be appreciated.

Bryan Swartz · 05-16-2007, 01:26 AM

Pretty sure I found the problem here. This is only from one save but I've seen it in several the last couple days, just using the one to spare the detail.

On creation with the .400 PCMs, most of the ratings(seen with the editor) are what you'd expect, topping out in the upper 70s for the top guys. Two ratings are out of whack for future creations: Contact and BABIP.

Within three years of the league starting, three guys were created, in a 4-team league, that are WAY out of whack.

A. Simbolon(2nd year) -- potentials of 122 contact, 250 BABIP
J. Mendoza(3rd year) -- potentials of 120 contact, 244 BABIP
M. Akua(4th year) -- potentials of 89 contact(not a huge problem), 180 BABIP

I pretty much never see any ratings at all over 80 in any of these categories on league creation. There appear to be no significant issues with the pitchers. Let me know if there's anything else you need on this.

Nutlaw · 05-16-2007, 06:59 PM

Huh. Interesting. Can you FTP your .dat files to us in a .zip per the instructions in the link below and let me know what the filename is? Once you do that, I'll write this up for Markus to look over.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=141258

Bryan Swartz · 05-16-2007, 11:03 PM

Done. Bryan Swartz.zip as requested. Good luck with it

.

Nutlaw · 05-17-2007, 06:30 PM

TT 3591.

Thanks for your diligence on this one, Bryan.

Nutlaw · 08-01-2007, 07:21 PM

This has been marked as something to consider for the next full release of the game.

Bryan Swartz · 04-24-2008, 03:32 PM

I'm curious if anybody can tell me if this issue has been resolved for OOTP 9? I'm interested in getting it, but if the PCMs are going to behave in this manner again it taks away a lot of the things I would like to do with a league.

03-31-2007, 04:12 PM	#1
Bryan Swartz Major Leagues Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 457	Created Players Question I tried a few searches and was unable to find this. I have a fictional league with significantly reduced PCMs. Every time I make a new league using this template the results are pretty consistent, but created players in the next few years don't seem to be completely respecting the PCM settings. For example league leaders in batting are always initially in the .300 range, but within a few years there's new players hitting .450 year-in, year-out, on a regular basis. Is there some setting I'm unaware of to force the game to respect the PCMs when new players are added, or am I missing something here? It isn't a talent increase issue, as I turned frequency down to 1 there and it had little/no effect. A new guy comes in sometime during the first few years, wins the batting title his first year, then proceeds to hit well over .400 and sometimes even over .500 for the course of his career.

04-13-2007, 10:21 PM	#3
Solack All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Nashville Posts: 656	My understanding on how these things works is thus: With PCMs, that only determines how a player might do when he is created. This is for potential and current ratings. However, over the course of a sim both those things change. So, while you might have put the PCMs really low, through the natural course of development the player might actually get a lot higher potential and current ratings then you intend, and you will then have players who are doing extremely well in a league that you don't want players like that. Which is where the League Totals come into play. If you don't want that many hits, homeruns, ect. it's MUCH better to change these. They will artificially make the league a lot worse/better then it is. You still might occasionally have that anomalous player, but they should not be too far outside the norm. Now, that's how I understand things as I have read them. You can check the manual it I believe it actually goes into a little more detail on these things because I read a discussion about it when Steve was trying to put together that part of the manual. __________________ Roger aka Khalin Solack

04-07-2007, 02:00 AM	#2
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	I probably shouldn't even mention this, but have you tried setting your MLEs to match your PCMs?

04-18-2007, 03:11 AM	#4
Bryan Swartz Major Leagues Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 457	I left this alone until the patch, but first off thanks for the comments/suggestions. I haven't changed the MLEs(at least, not from what I originally intentionally set them at) ... because I want to gradually bump up the talent levels over time. I don't want to artificially 'hold down' player's numbers -- that's not the issue. The issue is the game deciding the PCMs I have set aren't appropriate all on it's own. Neither is this an issue of a player's developing to grow beyond the norms and become a standout -- as I said I set talent changes to 1. But besides which, that isn't what's happening. Last setup is a representative example: Nobody hits better than .325 the first five years. Sixth year, a second-year player hits .453, with another rookie batting .398. The next year, same players hit .518 and .461 respectively. On dozens of startups you never see these kind of players created(even as mature veterans) immediately ... but within a few years they always pop up. Only conclusion I can come to is that the game does not PCMs the same when generating players in out years as it does originally -- so I'm wondering why this is and what if anything I can do about it. I have looked at everything the manual has to say about this and it would appear that it should be working the way I expect it to, but it isn't.

04-18-2007, 03:12 PM	#5
Zeyes All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 818	Is it just a handful of standouts, or do the overall offensive levels of your league go up significantly, too?

04-18-2007, 03:33 PM	#6
Bryan Swartz Major Leagues Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 457	The rest of the league seems to stay pretty constant. It's just creating a handful of guys who are way too talented.

05-12-2007, 08:47 PM	#7
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	Bryan, are you continuing to have any trouble with this issue? If so, could you provide us with some additional concrete numbers that we could take to Markus so that the issue could be adequately addressed? Thanks.

05-13-2007, 12:53 AM	#8
Bryan Swartz Major Leagues Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 457	I haven't been playing since after the patch, when I tried it again as stated. I have tried PCMs anywhere from 0.2 to 0.7 and I still get it(though obviously when they are set at 0.7 it is less 'obvious' because there's a lower comparative ceiling). Trying it again tonight, using my original setup(a 4-team Australian league). I find the fact that it happens quickly in a league this small significant, since it would tend to indicate that if you had a large league, you would have larger numbers of excessively talented players. For this test, we'll go with 0.400 PCMs across the board. I will post results as soon as I get some, just wanted to make it known that I'm still quite interested in this issue.

05-13-2007, 09:49 AM	#9
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	Great. Any information you can provide would be appreciated.

05-16-2007, 01:26 AM	#10
Bryan Swartz Major Leagues Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 457	Pretty sure I found the problem here. This is only from one save but I've seen it in several the last couple days, just using the one to spare the detail. On creation with the .400 PCMs, most of the ratings(seen with the editor) are what you'd expect, topping out in the upper 70s for the top guys. Two ratings are out of whack for future creations: Contact and BABIP. Within three years of the league starting, three guys were created, in a 4-team league, that are WAY out of whack. A. Simbolon(2nd year) -- potentials of 122 contact, 250 BABIP J. Mendoza(3rd year) -- potentials of 120 contact, 244 BABIP M. Akua(4th year) -- potentials of 89 contact(not a huge problem), 180 BABIP I pretty much never see any ratings at all over 80 in any of these categories on league creation. There appear to be no significant issues with the pitchers. Let me know if there's anything else you need on this.

05-16-2007, 06:59 PM	#11
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	Huh. Interesting. Can you FTP your .dat files to us in a .zip per the instructions in the link below and let me know what the filename is? Once you do that, I'll write this up for Markus to look over. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=141258

05-16-2007, 11:03 PM	#12
Bryan Swartz Major Leagues Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 457	Done. Bryan Swartz.zip as requested. Good luck with it .

05-17-2007, 06:30 PM	#13
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	TT 3591. Thanks for your diligence on this one, Bryan.

08-01-2007, 07:21 PM	#14
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	This has been marked as something to consider for the next full release of the game.

04-24-2008, 03:32 PM	#15
Bryan Swartz Major Leagues Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 457	I'm curious if anybody can tell me if this issue has been resolved for OOTP 9? I'm interested in getting it, but if the PCMs are going to behave in this manner again it taks away a lot of the things I would like to do with a league.