Please vote for HOF

redmachine · 06-10-2002, 05:21 PM

I Started a sole replay with fictional players starting in 1900 but using mid 60's setting for all teams.
Here are 8 players who are on the HOF list:

James Hoss(1b) 14yr career, last 10 with the Yankees. Career .301 hitter with 2532 hits, 434 doubles, 298 HR, 1235 RBI, 1395 runs. He is 15th alltime in hits and 20th alltime in doubles.

Roger Guida(2b)- 12yr career all with the Dodgers. Won 2 World series rings in 1907 and 1909. Career .319 hitter, 2281 hits, 411 HR, 1196 RBI, 1247 runs. He was a 7time All-star. He is not in the top 25 in any major catigories. Career ended at age 37 with a back injury.

James Hammel(CL)- 12yr career, all with the Oakland A's. He is 2nd alltime with 418 saves. He had a 2.34 ERA in 832 innings. He was a 7time AS.

David Bucklin (SP)-13yr career with 4 different teams. A 6time AS with a 180-142 career record and a 4.23 ERA with 2588K's. He won a ring in 1906 with the Reds. He Won the CY YOUNG award in 1907 going 22-10 with a 3.41 era. He is currently 9th alltime in wins, 5th alltime in K's and 14th alltime in shutouts with 11.

Adam Baptista(SS)- A 13yr career with 4 different teams. He is a 4time AS with a career .303 avg, 291 HR, 1154 RBI, 2255 Hits, 1313 Runs, 359 SB. He is also 4th alltime in doubles and 20th alltime in SB.

Thomas Kinsman(3B)- 14yr career with 7 different teams. His career numbers look like this: .253 avg, 482 HR, 1541 RBI, 1961 Hits, 661 doubles and 1302 runs. He is a 2 time Allstar that is 19th alltime in Homeruns, 15th in RBI and #1 in doubles.

Jonathan Hill(C)- 14yr career with 3 teams. Had a .298 avg with 155 Homeruns and 2217 hits. He finished 8th alltime in doubles.

Matin Theis(C)- 13yr career with 5 teams. He was a 3time Allstar with .307 avg, 251 homeruns and 2213 hits.

Cant decide if any of these players belong so any voting would be helpful. Thanks

rferry · 06-10-2002, 05:43 PM

Guida is a definite.
Bucklin, Baptista, and Hammel maybe.
Kingman, Theis, and Hoss not quite but close.
Hill is a no.

swampdragon · 06-10-2002, 07:37 PM

Guida for sure.
Kinsman is probable.
Baptista is close. Wouldn't vote for the others. I'm a little biased against closers because the save stat is so usage dependent and your guy's ERA isn't that great, but I suppose he's a maybe as well.

Halo Fan · 06-10-2002, 08:06 PM

I say Guida and Hammel, but not the others.

BigLou9781 · 06-11-2002, 07:48 AM

I'd say them two

JimServo · 06-11-2002, 08:52 AM

Guida

redmachine · 06-11-2002, 02:19 PM

Thanks guys, keep those votes coming. Kind of surprise nobody is voting for Hoss, he actually would get in on the default setting. Is it because he is a firstbaseman?

Tiger Fan · 06-11-2002, 02:50 PM

Just Guida

Batter UP · 06-12-2002, 05:31 AM

Roger Guida
James Hammel
James Hoss

rferry · 06-12-2002, 09:16 AM

yeah, i didnt vote for hoss because he was a 1stbaseman.

Carlton · 06-12-2002, 09:41 AM

two things...

1. How did they compare to their colleagues

2. Fielding %? most would be almosts in my HOF (unless they are high for their counterparts during their era) a good F% would put them in

right now I would say none...looks like the only 10 ten guys you have i sthe guy who finished #1 in doubles and the C #8...so obviously alot of players were more dominant then them.

If you do this now...then what happens 30 years from now...it will look like th ereal HOF, which e-one knows is pathetic since the 90's

Scott Vibert · 06-12-2002, 10:00 AM

Guida, yes

Maybe Hammel, but I would wait on him to see how long his number of saves holds up, if the number stays respectable put him in then, if it doesn't then don't.

No one else.

redmachine · 06-13-2002, 05:25 AM

Okay guys, that for the votes, Guida is the only one who got in, 4 years later, Hammel has dropped to 4th in saves so I will continue to wait on him.

MizzouRah · 06-13-2002, 06:02 AM

I would have voted for Guida, Hammel, and Hoss.

Hammel - 7 time AS, 418 saves and a 2.34 era? Definitly!

Hoss - I say yes as well. A career .301 hitter and 2500+ hits?

Todd

Specs · 06-13-2002, 07:10 AM

Guida, Hammel

Jason Moyer · 06-13-2002, 07:51 AM

quote:
Originally posted by TrueCardinalFan:
[QB]Hammel - 7 time AS, 418 saves and a 2.34 era? Definitly!/QB]

Hm. I agree with almost all those guys to varying degrees.

This one I'm not sure about. If he's playing with the "no CL" rule then that's pretty impressive. Otherwise, I dunno. Reliever ERA's really don't indicate anything meaningful and 600-700 saves is usually where the top guys seem to end up if you use CL roles.

Jason

rferry · 06-13-2002, 09:03 AM

quote:
Originally posted by TrueCardinalFan:
I would have voted for Guida, Hammel, and Hoss.

Hammel - 7 time AS, 418 saves and a 2.34 era? Definitly!

Hoss - I say yes as well. A career .301 hitter and 2500+ hits?

Todd

he is a firstbaseman though that played longer than any other eligible listed players. if the yankees were a good team (i'm imagining they are in his league because of market size and he wouldn't ahve mentioned it unless they were or if they were just horrible), his average, runs, and rbi's surely got bumped up.

MizzouRah · 06-13-2002, 09:05 AM

That is true, but I started my league with real players and erased the career leaders and I have yet to see anyone over 500 (I think) in saves. I guess it depends on what you are comparing it to.

Considering he is 2nd all-time in his league, that tells me he is above and beyond closers in his league.

Todd

fluharty · 06-13-2002, 10:40 AM

Hammel definately, Hoss is borderline.

Jason Moyer · 06-13-2002, 11:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by TrueCardinalFan:
Considering he is 2nd all-time in his league, that tells me he is above and beyond closers in his league.

Good point. I guess it depends on how far into the league he is and whether he's using fictional players or not.

Using fictional players and keeping the CL ratings I had a bunch of guys after 50-100 years who ended up with 600 saves easily (I've seen guys with more than 700). Changing CL to MR and SP when they enter the ammy draft (and at the initial draft) tends to lower the totals back to reality and 400 saves starts becoming tough to hit since a guy needs to be a relief ace for a long time to pull that.

It also depends on your seasonal save totals too. If 40-50 saves is normal in this league, then I'd stick with 600 as an auto qualifier. That's 15 seasons of 40 saves. By comparison, a starter needs 15 seasons of 20 wins to be an automatic pick, and a hitter needs 15 seasons of 33.3 homeruns or 200 hits. Everything is relative to your league of course (I normally auto induct based on 450 homeruns, 3000 hits, 450 saves, and 250 wins - but that works because of the way my league is setup). I usually take a typical league leading-type season in a stat, multiply by 15, and use that as an auto-entry.

Jason

06-10-2002, 05:43 PM	#2
rferry All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2002 Location: DC Posts: 549	Guida is a definite. Bucklin, Baptista, and Hammel maybe. Kingman, Theis, and Hoss not quite but close. Hill is a no. __________________ please excuse my grammar, i read baseball weekly in my high school english classes.

06-10-2002, 07:37 PM	#3
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,506	Guida for sure. Kinsman is probable. Baptista is close. Wouldn't vote for the others. I'm a little biased against closers because the save stat is so usage dependent and your guy's ERA isn't that great, but I suppose he's a maybe as well. __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis

06-11-2002, 08:52 AM	#6
JimServo Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Near Philadelphia, PA Posts: 418	Guida __________________ "When I was a small boy in Kansas, a friend of mine and I went fishing and as we sat there in the warmth of the summer afternoon on a river bank, we talked about what we wanted to do when we grew up. I told him that I wanted to be a real major league baseball player, a genuine professional like Honus Wagner. My friend said that he'd like to be President of the United States. Neither of us got our wish." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

06-12-2002, 09:16 AM	#10
rferry All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2002 Location: DC Posts: 549	yeah, i didnt vote for hoss because he was a 1stbaseman. __________________ please excuse my grammar, i read baseball weekly in my high school english classes.

06-12-2002, 09:41 AM	#11
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	two things... 1. How did they compare to their colleagues 2. Fielding %? most would be almosts in my HOF (unless they are high for their counterparts during their era) a good F% would put them in right now I would say none...looks like the only 10 ten guys you have i sthe guy who finished #1 in doubles and the C #8...so obviously alot of players were more dominant then them. If you do this now...then what happens 30 years from now...it will look like th ereal HOF, which e-one knows is pathetic since the 90's __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

06-10-2002, 05:21 PM	#1
redmachine Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Billings, MT Posts: 145	Please vote for HOF I Started a sole replay with fictional players starting in 1900 but using mid 60's setting for all teams. Here are 8 players who are on the HOF list: James Hoss(1b) 14yr career, last 10 with the Yankees. Career .301 hitter with 2532 hits, 434 doubles, 298 HR, 1235 RBI, 1395 runs. He is 15th alltime in hits and 20th alltime in doubles. Roger Guida(2b)- 12yr career all with the Dodgers. Won 2 World series rings in 1907 and 1909. Career .319 hitter, 2281 hits, 411 HR, 1196 RBI, 1247 runs. He was a 7time All-star. He is not in the top 25 in any major catigories. Career ended at age 37 with a back injury. James Hammel(CL)- 12yr career, all with the Oakland A's. He is 2nd alltime with 418 saves. He had a 2.34 ERA in 832 innings. He was a 7time AS. David Bucklin (SP)-13yr career with 4 different teams. A 6time AS with a 180-142 career record and a 4.23 ERA with 2588K's. He won a ring in 1906 with the Reds. He Won the CY YOUNG award in 1907 going 22-10 with a 3.41 era. He is currently 9th alltime in wins, 5th alltime in K's and 14th alltime in shutouts with 11. Adam Baptista(SS)- A 13yr career with 4 different teams. He is a 4time AS with a career .303 avg, 291 HR, 1154 RBI, 2255 Hits, 1313 Runs, 359 SB. He is also 4th alltime in doubles and 20th alltime in SB. Thomas Kinsman(3B)- 14yr career with 7 different teams. His career numbers look like this: .253 avg, 482 HR, 1541 RBI, 1961 Hits, 661 doubles and 1302 runs. He is a 2 time Allstar that is 19th alltime in Homeruns, 15th in RBI and #1 in doubles. Jonathan Hill(C)- 14yr career with 3 teams. Had a .298 avg with 155 Homeruns and 2217 hits. He finished 8th alltime in doubles. Matin Theis(C)- 13yr career with 5 teams. He was a 3time Allstar with .307 avg, 251 homeruns and 2213 hits. Cant decide if any of these players belong so any voting would be helpful. Thanks

06-10-2002, 08:06 PM	#4
Halo Fan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California Posts: 71	I say Guida and Hammel, but not the others.

06-11-2002, 07:48 AM	#5
BigLou9781 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: FL Posts: 22	I'd say them two

06-11-2002, 02:19 PM	#7
redmachine Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Billings, MT Posts: 145	Thanks guys, keep those votes coming. Kind of surprise nobody is voting for Hoss, he actually would get in on the default setting. Is it because he is a firstbaseman?

06-11-2002, 02:50 PM	#8
Tiger Fan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 9,873	Just Guida __________________ Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles

06-12-2002, 05:31 AM	#9
Batter UP Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 102	Roger Guida James Hammel James Hoss

06-12-2002, 10:00 AM	#12
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,267	Guida, yes Maybe Hammel, but I would wait on him to see how long his number of saves holds up, if the number stays respectable put him in then, if it doesn't then don't. No one else.

06-13-2002, 05:25 AM	#13
redmachine Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Billings, MT Posts: 145	Okay guys, that for the votes, Guida is the only one who got in, 4 years later, Hammel has dropped to 4th in saves so I will continue to wait on him.

06-13-2002, 06:02 AM	#14
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Troy, Mo Posts: 6,266	I would have voted for Guida, Hammel, and Hoss. Hammel - 7 time AS, 418 saves and a 2.34 era? Definitly! Hoss - I say yes as well. A career .301 hitter and 2500+ hits? Todd

06-13-2002, 07:51 AM	#16
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,111	quote: Originally posted by TrueCardinalFan: [QB]Hammel - 7 time AS, 418 saves and a 2.34 era? Definitly!/QB] Hm. I agree with almost all those guys to varying degrees. This one I'm not sure about. If he's playing with the "no CL" rule then that's pretty impressive. Otherwise, I dunno. Reliever ERA's really don't indicate anything meaningful and 600-700 saves is usually where the top guys seem to end up if you use CL roles. Jason __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

06-13-2002, 09:03 AM	#17
rferry All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2002 Location: DC Posts: 549	quote: Originally posted by TrueCardinalFan: I would have voted for Guida, Hammel, and Hoss. Hammel - 7 time AS, 418 saves and a 2.34 era? Definitly! Hoss - I say yes as well. A career .301 hitter and 2500+ hits? Todd he is a firstbaseman though that played longer than any other eligible listed players. if the yankees were a good team (i'm imagining they are in his league because of market size and he wouldn't ahve mentioned it unless they were or if they were just horrible), his average, runs, and rbi's surely got bumped up. __________________ please excuse my grammar, i read baseball weekly in my high school english classes.

06-13-2002, 09:05 AM	#18
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Troy, Mo Posts: 6,266	That is true, but I started my league with real players and erased the career leaders and I have yet to see anyone over 500 (I think) in saves. I guess it depends on what you are comparing it to. Considering he is 2nd all-time in his league, that tells me he is above and beyond closers in his league. Todd

06-13-2002, 10:40 AM	#19
fluharty All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Morgantown, WV Posts: 1,023	Hammel definately, Hoss is borderline.

06-13-2002, 11:21 AM	#20
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,111	quote: Originally posted by TrueCardinalFan: Considering he is 2nd all-time in his league, that tells me he is above and beyond closers in his league. Good point. I guess it depends on how far into the league he is and whether he's using fictional players or not. Using fictional players and keeping the CL ratings I had a bunch of guys after 50-100 years who ended up with 600 saves easily (I've seen guys with more than 700). Changing CL to MR and SP when they enter the ammy draft (and at the initial draft) tends to lower the totals back to reality and 400 saves starts becoming tough to hit since a guy needs to be a relief ace for a long time to pull that. It also depends on your seasonal save totals too. If 40-50 saves is normal in this league, then I'd stick with 600 as an auto qualifier. That's 15 seasons of 40 saves. By comparison, a starter needs 15 seasons of 20 wins to be an automatic pick, and a hitter needs 15 seasons of 33.3 homeruns or 200 hits. Everything is relative to your league of course (I normally auto induct based on 450 homeruns, 3000 hits, 450 saves, and 250 wins - but that works because of the way my league is setup). I usually take a typical league leading-type season in a stat, multiply by 15, and use that as an auto-entry. Jason __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech