Oh, Dusty Baker. You never cease to amaze.

mikev · 03-06-2008, 02:43 PM

From rotoworld:

Reds manager Dusty Baker has already decided he doesn't like Joey Votto's approach at the plate.

The approach that led to a .321/.360/.548 line and 17 RBI in 84 at-bats following his callup last season. "He needs to swing some more," Baker said. "I talked to him about that. Strikeouts aren't the only criteria. I'd like to see him more aggressive." Baker doesn't want Votto, Adam Dunn or anyone else taking called third strikes. "I really, really hate the called third strike," Baker said. "I hate that. You're guess and you ain't ready to hit." That Scott Hatteberg rarely strikes out makes Votto a particularly risky pick this year.

I don't understand why teams continue to employ this man.

BoofBonser26 · 03-06-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikev

I don't understand why teams continue to employ this man.

Entertainment value?

Andy · 03-06-2008, 02:52 PM

Ugh. He probably doesn't want them take pitches so they can't walk and clog up the basepaths. I guess that's why he brought Corey Patterson; someone to swing and miss.

dudeosu · 03-06-2008, 02:57 PM

I hate this man. He will single-handedly ruin every Reds prospect that comes under his management. Despair, Reds fans.

Kronos · 03-06-2008, 03:27 PM

Can't wait to see all the hacking and 130 pitch games, and oh yeah another 90 loss season.

Reds Fever..catch it.

bababui · 03-06-2008, 03:45 PM

I think this might be taken out of context. Baker wants power guys to be aggressive at the plate. A bottom of the ninth 2 out walk by your best power hitter when you are down a run and the bases are empty probably isnt the best outcome of that AB. And Baker is right that excellent hitters taking called third strikes (unless they are Eric Gregg strikes) shows a lack of aggression at the plate.

andymac · 03-06-2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

A bottom of the ninth 2 out walk by your best power hitter when you are down a run and the bases are empty probably isnt the best outcome of that AB.

It is better than an out, which is what the outcome is most likely to be if the player makes contact. Especially if he makes contact by expanding his zone.

bababui · 03-06-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

It is better than an out, which is what the outcome is most likely to be if the player makes contact. Especially if he makes contact by expanding his zone.

Depending on who the next hitter is, its as good as an out. And in a small park like Cincy, power hitters should be more aggressive.

jaxmagicman · 03-06-2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

It is better than an out, which is what the outcome is most likely to be if the player makes contact. Especially if he makes contact by expanding his zone.

Amen. Don't expand your zone just to make contact. A walk is better than an out.

Gastric ReFlux · 03-06-2008, 04:22 PM

You can't get a hit if you don't swing! When will the statheads figure that one out?

johnnybourbon · 03-06-2008, 04:23 PM

cincinnati(sp?) guys:
opinion of Adam Dunn?
I've had the luck to get his HRs to back my fantasy team the last 2 years...but...do you guys dislike his Sammy Sosa-esque approach at the plate?...I know he said last year that he'd be more patient at the plate, yet he struck out a ton.

bababui · 03-06-2008, 04:24 PM

Vladimir Guerrero sucks.

Zoso1515 · 03-06-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikev

Reds manager Dusty Baker has already decided he doesn't like Joey Votto's approach at the plate.

The approach that led to a .321/.360/.548 line and 17 RBI in 84 at-bats following his callup last season. "He needs to swing some more," Baker said. "I talked to him about that. Strikeouts aren't the only criteria. I'd like to see him more aggressive." Baker doesn't want Votto, Adam Dunn or anyone else taking called third strikes. "I really, really hate the called third strike," Baker said. "I hate that. You're guess and you ain't ready to hit." That Scott Hatteberg rarely strikes out makes Votto a particularly risky pick this year.

Makes sense to me.

jaxmagicman · 03-06-2008, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnybourbon

cincinnati(sp?) guys:
opinion of Adam Dunn?
I've had the luck to get his HRs to back my fantasy team the last 2 years...but...do you guys dislike his Sammy Sosa-esque approach at the plate?...I know he said last year that he'd be more patient at the plate, yet he struck out a ton.

Striking out a ton does not show lack of patience.

BoofBonser26 · 03-06-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gastric ReFlux

You can't get a hit if you don't swing! When will the statheads figure that one out?

Pretty sure we all know that.

Muppetus Galacticus · 03-06-2008, 04:45 PM

They're there to score runs and drive in runs!

Andy · 03-06-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnybourbon

cincinnati(sp?) guys:
opinion of Adam Dunn?
I've had the luck to get his HRs to back my fantasy team the last 2 years...but...do you guys dislike his Sammy Sosa-esque approach at the plate?...I know he said last year that he'd be more patient at the plate, yet he struck out a ton.

With Dunn, he will do one of three things; walk, strike out, or hit a homerun. I like the guy, but I wouldn't have minded if the Reds had not picked up his option for this year. With their surplus of OFs, they could have let him walk and keep Josh Hamilton instead. Plus, he sometimes has adventures in LF. The Reds OF could look very different next year. Maybe no Dunn or Griffey in 2009.

Dagrims · 03-06-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

Depending on who the next hitter is, its as good as an out.

That's a fairly ridiculous statement, particularly considering the next hitter after "your best power hitter" (your words in an earlier post) is going to generally be the #4 or #5 guy in the lineup. Why would you encourage your excellent hitters to swing at pitches outside the strike zone? Of course a walk isn't the "best outcome" with a 2-out, none on, down by one scenario, but neither is a single. I have a feeling Dusty (or you) wouldn't have a problem if the batter swung at a questionable 2-strike pitch to make contact, and knocks a line drive into the outfield for a single. Even if they manage a long fly to the gap, resulting in a double, the game still remains in the hands of the next guy.

The goal of a batter in this situation should be to avoid making an out. Period.

Dagrims · 03-06-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

With Dunn, he will do one of three things; walk, strike out, or hit a homerun.

He had 101 walks, and 98 hits that were not homeruns. Why not include "get a hit" in your list of things he'll do?

bababui · 03-06-2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagrims

That's a fairly ridiculous statement, particularly considering the next hitter after "your best power hitter" (your words in an earlier post) is going to generally be the #4 or #5 guy in the lineup. Why would you encourage your excellent hitters to swing at pitches outside the strike zone? Of course a walk isn't the "best outcome" with a 2-out, none on, down by one scenario, but neither is a single. I have a feeling Dusty (or you) wouldn't have a problem if the batter swung at a questionable 2-strike pitch to make contact, and knocks a line drive into the outfield for a single. Even if they manage a long fly to the gap, resulting in a double, the game still remains in the hands of the next guy.

The goal of a batter in this situation should be to avoid making an out. Period.

And taking a called third strike results in an...out.

A single also presents the chance for the fielder to botch either the fielding of the ball and/or the throw giving the baserunner a chance to advance or perhaps score.

It seems to me that Baker wants his power hitters to have a more aggressive approach to hitting. These hitters can immediately change a game; especially in that bandbox ballpark. To have them approach their AB like a leadoff hitter is foolish, IMO. Taking a questionable strike with 2 strikes and 2 outs is also foolish.

03-06-2008, 02:43 PM	#1
mikev Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 4,014	Oh, Dusty Baker. You never cease to amaze. From rotoworld: Reds manager Dusty Baker has already decided he doesn't like Joey Votto's approach at the plate. The approach that led to a .321/.360/.548 line and 17 RBI in 84 at-bats following his callup last season. "He needs to swing some more," Baker said. "I talked to him about that. Strikeouts aren't the only criteria. I'd like to see him more aggressive." Baker doesn't want Votto, Adam Dunn or anyone else taking called third strikes. "I really, really hate the called third strike," Baker said. "I hate that. You're guess and you ain't ready to hit." That Scott Hatteberg rarely strikes out makes Votto a particularly risky pick this year. I don't understand why teams continue to employ this man. __________________ Global Unified Baseball Association - Vice Commish and Oakland Oaks GM

03-06-2008, 02:52 PM	#3
Andy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 2,263	Ugh. He probably doesn't want them take pitches so they can't walk and clog up the basepaths. I guess that's why he brought Corey Patterson; someone to swing and miss.

03-06-2008, 02:57 PM	#4
dudeosu Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 373	I hate this man. He will single-handedly ruin every Reds prospect that comes under his management. Despair, Reds fans.

03-06-2008, 03:27 PM	#5
Kronos Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Northern Ky. Posts: 318	Can't wait to see all the hacking and 130 pitch games, and oh yeah another 90 loss season. Reds Fever..catch it.

03-06-2008, 04:22 PM	#10
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	You can't get a hit if you don't swing! When will the statheads figure that one out?