ALL STAR Replay ratings, Frank Moran, where's Gunboat? - Page 2

Cap · 02-19-2008, 10:23 PM

Re: Jack Dillon. Of course we're talking about 1912 only.

Cap

steamboat brand, palooka · 02-26-2008, 06:44 PM

(Question:With all the disqualifications in the 1910-1915 period in England and Australia, was a guy who was getting his ass whipped disqualified? I was originally thinking P.O. Curran must have been an unbelievably dirty fighter, but then I saw many disqualifications of different fighters from this period. I then thought that either the judges were unusually strict about rough tactics, OR getting slaughtered was grounds for disqualification. Do any TITLE BOUTers out there know the truth?)

This latest list for the most part agrees with the list I have, though a couple omissions and inclusions are surprising.
It must seem strange for someone to make a group from just one year, but there are not as many ratings questions that way. Other than KNOWING approximately how good Luther McCarty was in 1912, I find I can eliminate some fighters from Australia and other places whose abilities in 1912 I know little about. It doesn't seem like these fighters from the old British Empire were very good during that year, considering their lack of 1912 success, fighting guys such as Jim Barry, etc. Perhaps later in the teens they were better. So what I did was include only fighters who fought in the states in 1912, which would include Bombardier Billy Wells, Fred Storbeck, and of course Irish Jim Coffey, who was actually based in New York at that time.
It might be a mistake to exclude Colin Bell, Bill Lang, P.O. Curran, Bandsman Rice(Rice was barely a heavyweight, but he must have been pretty good), but I did it.
Here is my list, going around the continent, with fighters that I don't have a photo of being listed as (NP) for "no picture"
Jack Johnson
Sam Langford
Joe Jeanette
Sam McVey
Porky Flynn
Jack Sullivan
Andy Morris
Sandy Ferguson
Fred Bradley(NP)
Jeff Madden(NP)
Ray Simons(NP)
Arthur Pelkey
One Round Davis
Tom Kennedy
Soldier Delaney
Jumbo Wells(NP)(aka Jack Hubbard)- Wondering if he was big Cal Hubbard's brother.
Bob Williams(NP)
Jim Stewart
Soldier Kearns
Sailor White
Al Benedict(Hey Al! Duck!)
Jack McFarland
Tim Logan(NP??)
Battling Levinsky
Battling Jim Johnson
Tom McMahon
Frank Moran
Tony Ross
Al Kubiak
Jack Reed
Harry Wuest
Al Williams
Jim Barry
John Will(i)e
Luther McCarty
Jeff Clarke
Jess Willard
Carl Morris
Al Palzer
Black Bill(?)
Kid Cotton
Jack Geyer
Jim Flynn
Gunboat Smith
Jim Cameron
Charley Horn
Charley Miller
Al Kaufman
Bill Tate
Bill Watkins
Fred McKay
Bombardier Wells
Jim Coffey
plus possibly, after all the exclusion talk-
George Rodel
Colin Bell
Bandsman Rice
Bill Lang
Jack Lester
Tom Cowler
P.O.Curran
Terry Kellar
Pat Doran
speaking of some of those last guys from overseas, who the heck was Jack Howard? He must have been one tough cookie, at 160. I'd like to hear more about the Aussies from that time, like Erm Waddy, for instance.

Cap · 02-27-2008, 10:55 AM

Check Boxrec.com for the records on those guys. Shane of this forum is Australian and knows quite a bit about the heavyweights from the period in question. In fact, I seem to recall an article he posted about them, either here or on the Title Bout website.

Cap

steamboat brand, palooka · 02-27-2008, 02:17 PM

(Question: Was Battling Brooks the brother of Black Bill? Or was he actually Black Bill fighting under two names? Battling Brooks was Jack Brooks, and Black Bill was Claude Brooks. Their fights took place around New York City at the same time period, they both ended their careers at nearly the same time, and they never fought each other.)
I've been deciding the last few odds and ends fighters from 1912. In addition to Johnson, Langford, Jeanette and McVey, I am including among black heavyweights(as opposed to "White Hopes") Jeff Clarke, Battling Jim Johnson, Kid Cotton, Bill Tate, Jim Cameron, and either Bill Watkins, Battling Brooks or Black Bill for ten. If Bill and Brooks are the same person, it helps decide.
In regard to overseas heavies, I'm including Bombardier Wells, Bandsman Rice(too good to leave out), embryonic Tom Cowler, Jim Coffey, Colin Bell, George Rodel and Fred Storbeck. Possibly Bill Lang, as well. No 1912 Jack Lester, Terry Kellar, or P.O. Curran. I've decided on 50 "White Hopes" and 10 Black Heavyweights in all.

Work The Count · 05-28-2019, 09:36 PM

Does anybody have the old-style Title Bout cards like the ones in this thread (The yellow and white ones) for Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, and the Klitchko brothers? If so, could you please post them? Thanks!!

02-19-2008, 10:23 PM	#21
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 8,011	Re: Jack Dillon. Of course we're talking about 1912 only. Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

02-26-2008, 06:44 PM	#22
steamboat brand, palooka Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 156	(Question:With all the disqualifications in the 1910-1915 period in England and Australia, was a guy who was getting his ass whipped disqualified? I was originally thinking P.O. Curran must have been an unbelievably dirty fighter, but then I saw many disqualifications of different fighters from this period. I then thought that either the judges were unusually strict about rough tactics, OR getting slaughtered was grounds for disqualification. Do any TITLE BOUTers out there know the truth?) This latest list for the most part agrees with the list I have, though a couple omissions and inclusions are surprising. It must seem strange for someone to make a group from just one year, but there are not as many ratings questions that way. Other than KNOWING approximately how good Luther McCarty was in 1912, I find I can eliminate some fighters from Australia and other places whose abilities in 1912 I know little about. It doesn't seem like these fighters from the old British Empire were very good during that year, considering their lack of 1912 success, fighting guys such as Jim Barry, etc. Perhaps later in the teens they were better. So what I did was include only fighters who fought in the states in 1912, which would include Bombardier Billy Wells, Fred Storbeck, and of course Irish Jim Coffey, who was actually based in New York at that time. It might be a mistake to exclude Colin Bell, Bill Lang, P.O. Curran, Bandsman Rice(Rice was barely a heavyweight, but he must have been pretty good), but I did it. Here is my list, going around the continent, with fighters that I don't have a photo of being listed as (NP) for "no picture" Jack Johnson Sam Langford Joe Jeanette Sam McVey Porky Flynn Jack Sullivan Andy Morris Sandy Ferguson Fred Bradley(NP) Jeff Madden(NP) Ray Simons(NP) Arthur Pelkey One Round Davis Tom Kennedy Soldier Delaney Jumbo Wells(NP)(aka Jack Hubbard)- Wondering if he was big Cal Hubbard's brother. Bob Williams(NP) Jim Stewart Soldier Kearns Sailor White Al Benedict(Hey Al! Duck!) Jack McFarland Tim Logan(NP??) Battling Levinsky Battling Jim Johnson Tom McMahon Frank Moran Tony Ross Al Kubiak Jack Reed Harry Wuest Al Williams Jim Barry John Will(i)e Luther McCarty Jeff Clarke Jess Willard Carl Morris Al Palzer Black Bill(?) Kid Cotton Jack Geyer Jim Flynn Gunboat Smith Jim Cameron Charley Horn Charley Miller Al Kaufman Bill Tate Bill Watkins Fred McKay Bombardier Wells Jim Coffey plus possibly, after all the exclusion talk- George Rodel Colin Bell Bandsman Rice Bill Lang Jack Lester Tom Cowler P.O.Curran Terry Kellar Pat Doran speaking of some of those last guys from overseas, who the heck was Jack Howard? He must have been one tough cookie, at 160. I'd like to hear more about the Aussies from that time, like Erm Waddy, for instance. __________________ Needed: Sailor White + Andy Morris' height. Photos needed: Jeff Madden, Fred Bradley, Ray Sim(m?)ons, Jumbo Wells, Bob Williams, Kid Kenneth. Plus, the DEFINITIVE Tim Logan photo. Last edited by steamboat brand, palooka; 02-26-2008 at 10:21 PM.

02-27-2008, 10:55 AM	#23
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 8,011	Check Boxrec.com for the records on those guys. Shane of this forum is Australian and knows quite a bit about the heavyweights from the period in question. In fact, I seem to recall an article he posted about them, either here or on the Title Bout website. Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

02-27-2008, 02:17 PM	#24
steamboat brand, palooka Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 156	(Question: Was Battling Brooks the brother of Black Bill? Or was he actually Black Bill fighting under two names? Battling Brooks was Jack Brooks, and Black Bill was Claude Brooks. Their fights took place around New York City at the same time period, they both ended their careers at nearly the same time, and they never fought each other.) I've been deciding the last few odds and ends fighters from 1912. In addition to Johnson, Langford, Jeanette and McVey, I am including among black heavyweights(as opposed to "White Hopes") Jeff Clarke, Battling Jim Johnson, Kid Cotton, Bill Tate, Jim Cameron, and either Bill Watkins, Battling Brooks or Black Bill for ten. If Bill and Brooks are the same person, it helps decide. In regard to overseas heavies, I'm including Bombardier Wells, Bandsman Rice(too good to leave out), embryonic Tom Cowler, Jim Coffey, Colin Bell, George Rodel and Fred Storbeck. Possibly Bill Lang, as well. No 1912 Jack Lester, Terry Kellar, or P.O. Curran. I've decided on 50 "White Hopes" and 10 Black Heavyweights in all. __________________ Needed: Sailor White + Andy Morris' height. Photos needed: Jeff Madden, Fred Bradley, Ray Sim(m?)ons, Jumbo Wells, Bob Williams, Kid Kenneth. Plus, the DEFINITIVE Tim Logan photo.

05-28-2019, 09:36 PM	#25
Work The Count Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 41	Does anybody have the old-style Title Bout cards like the ones in this thread (The yellow and white ones) for Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, and the Klitchko brothers? If so, could you please post them? Thanks!!