Expansion Question

Driver 8 · 03-25-2003, 04:30 PM

One of my favorite things about the OOTP community is the wealth of information and experience bouncing around the boards at any given time.

I'd like to draw upon this knowledge base to get some ideas of how other leagues have handled expansion in the past. The TSTBL is in the final stages of the 2006 season and we plan on expanding (by two teams) to start the 2008 season. This gives us a season-plus to nail down our expansion process.

By the time we start the process for the 2008 season, we'll have had 6 complete seasons under our belt, enough time to sufficiently flush out our minor league systems.

That being said, those of you who have been through the expansion process, did you create protection lists? If yes, how many and why did you protect? How many players did you allow one team to lose to expansion? How many rounds was your expansion draft? How did you handle to amateur draft and free agency period? These are some of the questions that come to mind, but I'm looking for any thoughts or advice you may have.

The owners have come up with some good ideas on a lot of these topics, but I'd like to make sure we consider every option.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and ideas you'd wish to contribute.

LivnLegend · 03-25-2003, 04:56 PM

In the USBA we decided against an expansion draft and went with "expansion teams."

A rival league folded and the USBA absorbed the (financially) strongest four teams from that league, players and all. The new expansion teams were not strong enough to compete with the USBA's top teams initially but the prospects on those new clubs were strong and allowed those new teams to take one of two strategies (or a mix of the two): They could trade their prospects for vets and attempt to compete immediately or take the route of building a powerful club from the ground up.

This proved popular in two ways…
- existing teams in the USBA did not worry about the expansion process wrecking their long term plans with their clubs that they had worked hard on over the previous seasons.
- the USBA was able to add some owners who relished the challenge of building a team with bright futures (i.e. prospects) when often the case is the expansion teams are very weak initially since expansion drafts often prohibit new clubs from drafting potential stars.

It's a little different but then the USBA is a little different than most leagues anyway

HolyCow98 · 03-25-2003, 05:27 PM

I usually have something like this...

Each team has to leave one 3 star or less available...it gives the current teams a free chance to dump salary with no penalty as the expansion team will be picking up the bill...although in alot of cases the expansion teams will be passing on them...

From each of the minor league affiliates of each team they do the same (3 star or less) so each team will be allowing 4 players per franchise....this gives a nice touch as far as familiar faces without messing the current teams up, and in some cases allowing them to make room for their own young and up and coming players that were being blocked by the 36 year old vet who was still productive but expensive by giving them up with no penalty to their finances.

To fill the holes..the expansion teams scourge the remaining free agents..after the FA perioud and AMMY draft...if they still need more player, as a last resort...I will fill their minors with fictional players...

I like this method because some of the guys are recognizable to me but the expansion teams are still poor and never are able to compete the first couple of seasons...

LivnLegend · 03-25-2003, 05:51 PM

One thing I have seen in some leagues I have “vultured” is expansion teams being made up of cast-offs left exposed by their former teams, scrubby free agents, and minor leaguers from the "Fill Minors" option (which are always dreadful). I have seen these expansion teams go through multiple owners as GMs get frustrated by their inability to accomplish much or never grow attached to their under performing team. By setting up a scenario where an expansion team has no hopes of contending until their own drafted rookies make it to the majors (3-4 seasons minimum - an eternity in the online league world) you could be cooking a recipe for disaster unless you have very dedicated GMs. Plus, in the meantime, fan interest plunges. On the other hand, if you make it too easy to pick off quality players and/or quality prospects from existing teams, you run the risk of disheartening the owners who have put much work into their existing clubs.

It’s not easy to balance!

CommishJoe · 03-25-2003, 06:00 PM

BOSI will have an expansion draft utility ready shortly after release (my guess is about 3-4 weeks). It'll allow owners to protect 10 players(or less as they must leave 3 players available to be drafted) with 5 or more years of experience. When the expansion year hits, it'll allow the expansion teams to select 1 player from each team in round 1(only 1 player per team, per round can be selected). It then allows a pause to allow owners to protect 2 more players each, then round 2 goes the same way as round 1. If either expansion team still wants to select players (they can decide to drop out once they have hit a minimum salary or # of players), then teams can protect 2 more players each, and round 3 would begin. Once round 3 is over, or both teams finish, the draft is done. The commish would then need to get the players to their new teams (there will be a nice report you can use to help you do that).

This worked pretty well for the TLB in 2004, but I need to clean it up and knock out a couple of kinks before I release it as part of BOSI.

03-25-2003, 04:30 PM	#1
Driver 8 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: gurnee, il Posts: 397	Expansion Question One of my favorite things about the OOTP community is the wealth of information and experience bouncing around the boards at any given time. I'd like to draw upon this knowledge base to get some ideas of how other leagues have handled expansion in the past. The TSTBL is in the final stages of the 2006 season and we plan on expanding (by two teams) to start the 2008 season. This gives us a season-plus to nail down our expansion process. By the time we start the process for the 2008 season, we'll have had 6 complete seasons under our belt, enough time to sufficiently flush out our minor league systems. That being said, those of you who have been through the expansion process, did you create protection lists? If yes, how many and why did you protect? How many players did you allow one team to lose to expansion? How many rounds was your expansion draft? How did you handle to amateur draft and free agency period? These are some of the questions that come to mind, but I'm looking for any thoughts or advice you may have. The owners have come up with some good ideas on a lot of these topics, but I'd like to make sure we consider every option. Thanks in advance for any thoughts and ideas you'd wish to contribute.

03-25-2003, 04:56 PM	#2
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	In the USBA we decided against an expansion draft and went with "expansion teams." A rival league folded and the USBA absorbed the (financially) strongest four teams from that league, players and all. The new expansion teams were not strong enough to compete with the USBA's top teams initially but the prospects on those new clubs were strong and allowed those new teams to take one of two strategies (or a mix of the two): They could trade their prospects for vets and attempt to compete immediately or take the route of building a powerful club from the ground up. This proved popular in two ways… - existing teams in the USBA did not worry about the expansion process wrecking their long term plans with their clubs that they had worked hard on over the previous seasons. - the USBA was able to add some owners who relished the challenge of building a team with bright futures (i.e. prospects) when often the case is the expansion teams are very weak initially since expansion drafts often prohibit new clubs from drafting potential stars. It's a little different but then the USBA is a little different than most leagues anyway __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

03-25-2003, 05:27 PM	#3
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	I usually have something like this... Each team has to leave one 3 star or less available...it gives the current teams a free chance to dump salary with no penalty as the expansion team will be picking up the bill...although in alot of cases the expansion teams will be passing on them... From each of the minor league affiliates of each team they do the same (3 star or less) so each team will be allowing 4 players per franchise....this gives a nice touch as far as familiar faces without messing the current teams up, and in some cases allowing them to make room for their own young and up and coming players that were being blocked by the 36 year old vet who was still productive but expensive by giving them up with no penalty to their finances. To fill the holes..the expansion teams scourge the remaining free agents..after the FA perioud and AMMY draft...if they still need more player, as a last resort...I will fill their minors with fictional players... I like this method because some of the guys are recognizable to me but the expansion teams are still poor and never are able to compete the first couple of seasons... __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

03-25-2003, 05:51 PM	#4
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	One thing I have seen in some leagues I have “vultured” is expansion teams being made up of cast-offs left exposed by their former teams, scrubby free agents, and minor leaguers from the "Fill Minors" option (which are always dreadful). I have seen these expansion teams go through multiple owners as GMs get frustrated by their inability to accomplish much or never grow attached to their under performing team. By setting up a scenario where an expansion team has no hopes of contending until their own drafted rookies make it to the majors (3-4 seasons minimum - an eternity in the online league world) you could be cooking a recipe for disaster unless you have very dedicated GMs. Plus, in the meantime, fan interest plunges. On the other hand, if you make it too easy to pick off quality players and/or quality prospects from existing teams, you run the risk of disheartening the owners who have put much work into their existing clubs. It’s not easy to balance! __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

03-25-2003, 06:00 PM	#5
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	BOSI will have an expansion draft utility ready shortly after release (my guess is about 3-4 weeks). It'll allow owners to protect 10 players(or less as they must leave 3 players available to be drafted) with 5 or more years of experience. When the expansion year hits, it'll allow the expansion teams to select 1 player from each team in round 1(only 1 player per team, per round can be selected). It then allows a pause to allow owners to protect 2 more players each, then round 2 goes the same way as round 1. If either expansion team still wants to select players (they can decide to drop out once they have hit a minimum salary or # of players), then teams can protect 2 more players each, and round 3 would begin. Once round 3 is over, or both teams finish, the draft is done. The commish would then need to get the players to their new teams (there will be a nice report you can use to help you do that). This worked pretty well for the TLB in 2004, but I need to clean it up and knock out a couple of kinks before I release it as part of BOSI. __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.