OOTP6.5+ & OOTP9 ~Why not both~

[Dunk44]

I was just kicking back and thinking why we can't have have both? There seems to be a lot of people that prefer OOTP the 6.5 way, and then those of us like myself that prefer the 08 way.

It seems it would make good business sense to update 6.5, add in some bells and whistles, a few extra features, fix the old bugs, and call it 6.5 Plus or whatever. 6.5 and 08, as we are well aware, are completely different games, and could/should be sold as different games. For those that don't want the complexity/GUI of 08 this could be perfect, and of course, add some sales. The 6.5 crowd is happy, and the FM style crowd is happy. Both sides win. Markus increases sales. Where is the downfall? Now I wouldn't want this to just be a paid patch by any means, there has to be some significant upgrade, maybe sell it for $14.99. 6.5 customers purchase it knowing that (as I believe has been stated) that Markus has gotten just about everything he can out of 6.5, and will never be to the depth of 08/09. My thought is with the knowledge gained from working with SI he should be able to take this game at least one step further, and in later years maybe just some minor upgrades and charge $5. And who knows, maybe even figure out H2H someday.

Now I can't see myself purchasing a 6.5 redo, unless of course my 6.5 online league did the upgrade and it wasn't backward compatible. Really, that league is the only reason 6.5 has a space on my HD anymore.

Just thought I'd share my thoughts and throw this out here, I don't visit the boards often and very rarely post, so this may just be beating a dead horse for the 10,967th time.

I think this is all the customer base wants.... OOTP6.5+ OOTP 09

[zekester91]

Markus has stated that 6.5 had gone as far as he could take it and there wasn't much more he could do with it, which was one of the reasons for the move to SI so he could get a fresh code base and a new look at baseball Managment. It would be interesting to see if he could do more with it, but I think he's moved on and 9 is the future and 6.5 is pretty much dead, programicly.

[BaseballMan]

Nah it would probably be better for Markus to focus on OOTP 9.
6.5 was great but that code has run its course. If Markus could do
as much with the future of 6.5 as he can with OOTP 8 i dont think he would have made the big switch in 2006.

[1998 Yankees]

I doubt whether he would want to split his time and resources between the two. Plus, think of the complications that would arise from customer demands like, "Gee, 6.5 Deluxe would be perfect if you only added FaceGen to it, Markus. C'mon, huh?"

Nice thought, Dunk44, but we were better off with the thread a couple of weeks ago that talked about taking the best of the 6.5 interface which, IMO, is really what people miss, and working that into OOTP 9.

[frosticle]

Originally Posted by Dunk44

I was just kicking back and thinking why we can't have have both? There seems to be a lot of people that prefer OOTP the 6.5 way, and then those of us like myself that prefer the 08 way.

It seems it would make good business sense to update 6.5, add in some bells and whistles, a few extra features, fix the old bugs, and call it 6.5 Plus or whatever. 6.5 and 08, as we are well aware, are completely different games, and could/should be sold as different games. For those that don't want the complexity/GUI of 08 this could be perfect, and of course, add some sales. The 6.5 crowd is happy, and the FM style crowd is happy. Both sides win. Markus increases sales. Where is the downfall? Now I wouldn't want this to just be a paid patch by any means, there has to be some significant upgrade, maybe sell it for $14.99. 6.5 customers purchase it knowing that (as I believe has been stated) that Markus has gotten just about everything he can out of 6.5, and will never be to the depth of 08/09. My thought is with the knowledge gained from working with SI he should be able to take this game at least one step further, and in later years maybe just some minor upgrades and charge $5. And who knows, maybe even figure out H2H someday.

Now I can't see myself purchasing a 6.5 redo, unless of course my 6.5 online league did the upgrade and it wasn't backward compatible. Really, that league is the only reason 6.5 has a space on my HD anymore.

Just thought I'd share my thoughts and throw this out here, I don't visit the boards often and very rarely post, so this may just be beating a dead horse for the 10,967th time.

I think this is all the customer base wants.... OOTP6.5+ OOTP 09

You have to understand how programming works. When you build for too long on the same code, it leads to problems. It becomes slow, behind times, hard to upgrade, and close to impossible to fix problems. Think of Microsoft Windows. They have been building on the same kernel for far too long, which is why Windows is slow and full of holes. Programmers want a new Windows, built from the ground up, but that would be a long process and we won't see that for probably a few years.

Most of the time when I hear that software is being reprogrammed from the ground up, it leads me to believe it is heading in the right direction. You can usually expect a faster, better, and smarter program, that is more enjoyable in the long run. The problem is that there is always an initial falloff when the new one hits and usually it takes quite a while for everything to fall into place. For OOTP, that will probably be around 9 or 10 when everything starts to feel right, but the big dropoff was 2006. Remember, you are using something that had to be built completly over again, in a different way. It will take a while for it to come around.

Some of my favorite software has gone through this and I can tell you that it gets better, especially with a community like this one where the people can sway the building of it. Recently, my favorite free FTP client(File Transfer Software), Filezilla, went through the same thing. Their reasoning was that they wanted it to work on all platforms (Windows, Mac, Linux, etc...), which the original one didn't. The first launch was almost featureless, after the old client had been loaded with features. It was so full of bugs I nearly stopped using it. After a few months though, it turned into a decent program again and is now making strides at getting it everything back that it had before, in a better/faster way. They still let people download the old version of the program, but now people are starting to see that the new one is making a lot of progress and they will likely soon switch over. I think that is something that will happen with OOTP too.

[ravinhood]

Originally Posted by frosticle

You have to understand how programming works. When you build for too long on the same code, it leads to problems. It becomes slow, behind times, hard to upgrade, and close to impossible to fix problems. Think of Microsoft Windows. They have been building on the same kernel for far too long, which is why Windows is slow and full of holes. Programmers want a new Windows, built from the ground up, but that would be a long process and we won't see that for probably a few years.

Most of the time when I hear that software is being reprogrammed from the ground up, it leads me to believe it is heading in the right direction. You can usually expect a faster, better, and smarter program, that is more enjoyable in the long run. The problem is that there is always an initial falloff when the new one hits and usually it takes quite a while for everything to fall into place. For OOTP, that will probably be around 9 or 10 when everything starts to feel right, but the big dropoff was 2006. Remember, you are using something that had to be built completly over again, in a different way. It will take a while for it to come around.

Some of my favorite software has gone through this and I can tell you that it gets better, especially with a community like this one where the people can sway the building of it. Recently, my favorite free FTP client(File Transfer Software), Filezilla, went through the same thing. Their reasoning was that they wanted it to work on all platforms (Windows, Mac, Linux, etc...), which the original one didn't. The first launch was almost featureless, after the old client had been loaded with features. It was so full of bugs I nearly stopped using it. After a few months though, it turned into a decent program again and is now making strides at getting it everything back that it had before, in a better/faster way. They still let people download the old version of the program, but now people are starting to see that the new one is making a lot of progress and they will likely soon switch over. I think that is something that will happen with OOTP too.

Uh huh and this is why VISTA is falling flat on its face as opposed to XP. Vista is a total flop and failure and even Bill Gates has admitted as much. Vista was one of your "from the ground up" creations and it's a pile of junk and basically is the ME before Gates next money grubbing production of Windows 7 lol.

I'm personally gettting pretty tired of these oh we decided to change some code so give us $50 every 6 months so we can continue to change the code at a later time so you can give us $50 again every 6 months so we can continue to change the code (that never needed changing in the first place we just have to come up with new ways for you to give us $50 every 6 months) lol

[frosticle]

Originally Posted by ravinhood

Uh huh and this is why VISTA is falling flat on its face as opposed to XP. Vista is a total flop and failure and even Bill Gates has admitted as much. Vista was one of your "from the ground up" creations and it's a pile of junk and basically is the ME before Gates next money grubbing production of Windows 7 lol.

I'm personally gettting pretty tired of these oh we decided to change some code so give us $50 every 6 months so we can continue to change the code at a later time so you can give us $50 again every 6 months so we can continue to change the code (that never needed changing in the first place we just have to come up with new ways for you to give us $50 every 6 months) lol

Actually Vista is built on the same Kernel as XP, just relies on it less, which is supposed to make it more secure. The problem with Vista is that it is bloated and is made to only run on very fast computers.

I know you took the time to put "from the ground up" in quotes, but that isn't true.

I really don't know what you are going on and on about here. Every 6 months, 50 bucks? I mean come on dude. First off OOTP changed their code once. Most programs do it no more than once every like 5 years or so. You are arguing against me when your argument sounds more like it is for what I was saying. You are complaining about changing some code and I was talking about from the ground up. When you rebuild something completly it takes a long time and there will be some rough patches in there. What makes your argument unviable is the fact you are talking about either keeping the same code for too long or some fictional example of code being changed all the time. The first should never happen and the second I have never seen happen.

I don't think you have any experience programming. All I can say is that if you did, you wouldn't say something like "that never needed changing in the first place". I think Markus and any other programmers would agree that code has an expiration date. You can only build on something for so long before it becomes too cluttered and unuseable.

Ravinhood, forget our end for a second. Think about Markus trying to build on that many years of code. It is unrealistic to think OOTP could have made it any further along using the 6.5 code. They were lucky to even get a working 6.5 out. By that time it was painfully slow, had some major bugs, and was stuck looking and playing almost exactly as it was, with little hope of ever being able to build on any of the features. Would you feel more comfortable buying a product like this?

I will finish with one last thought. I rarely see software build from the ground up and then turn to crap. They almost always start out bad because they need to be tested and it just isn't possible to release something full featured and perfect right from the beginning, but... when it comes around it is almost always better. I can't think of an example where it didn't end up better, but I will leave it open.

[PSUColonel]

I really wish this rediculous conversation would go away.