Simplicity Please!!! - Page 2

silvam14 · 01-15-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobble

I think one of the reasons many mods don't have an easy-to-use front end is that it's a whole different skill set. If you're making graphic mods or rosters or whatever, you might not have any clue how to code a front end.

Right on Bobble! You can lump me into that category.

frosticle · 01-15-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teak88

First, sincere thanks to all the mods makers; I wouldn't play the game w/o all your hard work

Secondly, and however, why can't you make it SIMPLE to use. I am sick and tired of searching for them (half of the mod sites seem to be unmaintained); or having to go through some convoluted registration rigamarole when I find it; then having to go through 10 steps -always different - to download it; always with the need to add .lg or change the CPU or find a .rar file ; then trying to find where on my computer they downloaded and then trying to figure out what file they should go to. Then it doesn't work, so I start over. This is insane!

The fact that all you mods makers can make mods means this is all straightforward to you...but not to many of the rest of us.

a couple of years ago, probably for OOTP 5 or 6, there was a great download (forget what it was called) which contained a complete roster, photos, parks, and logos. You pushed one button to download it; you opened it and it asked you to check which of the four elements you wanted; you pushed another button and - Presto - it opened everything into the proper folder. Even an idiot, me, can do this.

Can we please move back to this.

Normally I would have just ignored this, but watching my mother now do complex things on her computer, I think I will have to comment. You see, she is old, grandmother old, and she is now able to do almost anything on her computer. For years she complained, like you are doing, and I just simply would log in remotely or go to her house and fix it. Then after a while I said it is time for you to learn how to do things. I told her to search (Google) what she didn't know, to play around with things, to use menus, right click, etc... She did and after a while she got really good. She can now install almost anything on her computer, use her advanced all in one printer, install firefox addons she wants, configure things, search out sites, etc. Amazing what one can do when they don't rely just on others. She made great leaps in one year, so much so that she is probably on par with most people here and she used to barely be able to turn on a computer for years.

Now with that said, simulators are difficult to use. You are aiming high, thus you need to step it up. OOTP is easy in some aspects, but the internet in general is cruel.

Lets start with obtaining the files. You know the links, sure, but you were complaining about MediaFire earlier in CubbyFan's thread. It doesn't get much easier than MediaFire. It links you right to the file. So guess what? If you aren't getting the link, then correct the problem. My guess is that you have Javascript turned off, maybe in the browser preferences or maybe by something like the Firefox addon NoScript. Fix the problem, get the file.

Then where to place them? OOTP is one of the few games that is almost completely straight forward about placement of files. Find the directory for the game you have and you will see where each files go. Photos go in photos, caps in caps, etc... Doesn't get any easier than that. If you don't know, ask, we are willing to help. This isn't hard though.

For the directory, go into your "My Documents" folder. Then if you have 2007 click on "Sports Interactive" or if you have 8 click on "Out Of The Park Developments". Then click the next two directories you see and all of a sudden a window full of them appears. Almost everything goes in there. Just find the directory and place the files.

Have trouble extracting the files from rars or whatever? Use http://www.rarlabs.com or http://www.7-zip.org/ . Then just right click on the files and choose extract here, then place the files inside the directories.

Padres Fan has some nice guides at his site and some direct links to download some files: http://web.mac.com/sixwilsons/OOTPMods/

I don't mean this as an insult, but if you find all of this too difficult and you are unwilling to "Google" your problems or ask us on the boards, then a sports simulation game may be aiming too high for you. There are certainly much easier games or things to do online.

Tony M · 01-15-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvam14

Right on Bobble! You can lump me into that category.

And me too.

teak88 · 01-16-2008, 09:25 AM

(/QUOTE) Now with that said, simulators are difficult to use. You are aiming high, thus you need to step it up. OOTP is easy in some aspects, but the internet in general is cruel.

Lets start with obtaining the files. You know the links, sure, but you were complaining about MediaFire earlier in CubbyFan's thread. It doesn't get much easier than MediaFire. It links you right to the file. So guess what? If you aren't getting the link, then correct the problem. My guess is that you have Javascript turned off, maybe in the browser preferences or maybe by something like the Firefox addon NoScript. Fix the problem, get the file.

Then where to place them? OOTP is one of the few games that is almost completely straight forward about placement of files. Find the directory for the game you have and you will see where each files go. Photos go in photos, caps in caps, etc... Doesn't get any easier than that. If you don't know, ask, we are willing to help. This isn't hard though.

For the directory, go into your "My Documents" folder. Then if you have 2007 click on "Sports Interactive" or if you have 8 click on "Out Of The Park Developments". Then click the next two directories you see and all of a sudden a window full of them appears. Almost everything goes in there. Just find the directory and place the files.

Have trouble extracting the files from rars or whatever? Use http://www.rarlabs.com or http://www.7-zip.org/ . Then just right click on the files and choose extract here, then place the files inside the directories.

Padres Fan has some nice guides at his site and some direct links to download some files: http://web.mac.com/sixwilsons/OOTPMods/

I don't mean this as an insult, but if you find all of this too difficult and you are unwilling to "Google" your problems or ask us on the boards, then a sports simulation game may be aiming too high for you. There are certainly much easier games or things to do online.[/QUOTE]

Firstly, I finally got a roster downloaded and installed...thanks to those who made it and to those who offered advice

Secondly, per the last para above, I don't "take it as an insult". Rather, I think that your post is a perfect illustration of my point. It all seems so simple and straightforward to you. Great; I'm truly happy for you (no cynicism intended). However, judging from the number of posts on this site asking for help - "Where do I find...", "How do I download...", "How do I get ___to work..." - there are a great number of us who don't find it so self-evident.

I never intended my original post to be a complaint or a whine. Simply a comment to the valued mod makers to take things one step further if possible, by pointing out that there are a lot of us who have trouble taking advantage of their generous contribution.

In fact, a couple of the mod makers who responded (Bobble, Silvam) made a point that hadn't occurred to me, ie, that the mod makers may be good at data management and graphics but not at front-end coding. Could well be the case.

So, I'll re-direct my original comment to Markus & Co. Is there a way to establish/embed protocols that will make the importation of user mods more intuitive?

rasnell · 01-16-2008, 09:52 AM

New users have a valid concern about mod makers who no longer include a read me file or give basics on where to install their files. Don't take for granted that everyone using this is a veteran.

I'm just as frustrated with other games, mods and the difficulty of obtaining files. Even patches are unbelieavably hard to find for some games.

But the OOTP community and modders are pretty outstanding. You really need to check out all of the files at padrefans site. Those are easy to get to and the link was posted earlier or can be searched via google.

frosticle · 01-16-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teak88

Firstly, I finally got a roster downloaded and installed...thanks to those who made it and to those who offered advice

Secondly, per the last para above, I don't "take it as an insult". Rather, I think that your post is a perfect illustration of my point. It all seems so simple and straightforward to you. Great; I'm truly happy for you (no cynicism intended). However, judging from the number of posts on this site asking for help - "Where do I find...", "How do I download...", "How do I get ___to work..." - there are a great number of us who don't find it so self-evident.

I never intended my original post to be a complaint or a whine. Simply a comment to the valued mod makers to take things one step further if possible, by pointing out that there are a lot of us who have trouble taking advantage of their generous contribution.

In fact, a couple of the mod makers who responded (Bobble, Silvam) made a point that hadn't occurred to me, ie, that the mod makers may be good at data management and graphics but not at front-end coding. Could well be the case.

So, I'll re-direct my original comment to Markus & Co. Is there a way to establish/embed protocols that will make the importation of user mods more intuitive?

You are missing my points, I wasn't attacking you, I was trying to tell you that you are thinking too hard. OOTP is straightforward, you put the right files in the right directories. It is that simple. We know simulators are hard to use, but if you read the page I linked you and read what I said, then you have almost everything covered.

So why now didn't you just ask? You attacked in some ways, but didn't ask. It is not the mod makers faults that you can't get MediaFire working(BTW, it is probably the easiest download service to use). I actually was the one who uploaded CubbyFan's files there, just to make things easier and to make them smaller. Imagine if you read the post before and tried to use RapidShare. That would be madness.

You see, you think that I am acting smart or pretending or something and that it illustrates your point. Fine, but... that is fogging up my point on how easy it is and how all you had to do was ask a question. You could even search the forums.

In this day and age, people who want to play online video games seek out information and sites themselves or ask a forum community to do it for them. That is the way things work. It sucks sometimes, but people aren't going to change it. Try Half-Life 2 or Unreal Tournament 2004. So many mods, across so many sites, with barely any information available. I used to install hundreds of mods in a night, then cross my fingers they would work in the morning.

You have it easy nowadays with OOTP. Put the file in the right directory and there you go.

Teak88, I have nothing against you and would love to help you. I just want you to know that we all are here to help. You don't need a fancy readme file or a computer degree to do this, you just need to be willing to learn and to listen to a few people here and there. Post your questions on the forums, learn what you can from links/info provided, and basically add a little memory and you are on your way.

OOTP isn't easy. No simulator is... The thing is, they are easier now than before and will probably get easier. The more you learn now, the easier things are in the future. I always prefer to aim to learn something harder when given the choice of the easy or hard. That way I can do both. This probably doesn't even fall under hard these days, so I think you will be set.

rasnell · 01-16-2008, 01:34 PM

Probably not how you meant it, but it does read harshly and sounds more like a long critique than an offer to help. What is simple and straightforward to you obviously is not to the person asking for help.

You're not coming across as politely as you may have intended. Hope this serves all of us to remember to help the newest customer over the ropes that we've learned. The more customers and more members of this forum, the greater the chance that OOTP continues on, improves, and gives us all of these great winters where baseball can still be played.

frosticle · 01-16-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasnell

Probably not how you meant it, but it does read harshly and sounds more like a long critique than an offer to help. What is simple and straightforward to you obviously is not to the person asking for help.

You're not coming across as politely as you may have intended. Hope this serves all of us to remember to help the newest customer over the ropes that we've learned. The more customers and more members of this forum, the greater the chance that OOTP continues on, improves, and gives us all of these great winters where baseball can still be played.

I don't care if it sounds harsh. Read the original post, second paragraph and tell me if someone is looking for help or not. I already tried to help in the CubbyFan thread and he chose to write this thread instead.

This doesn't serve anything. You need to base your posts on the person, not some generic way for everyone. The guy clearly is frustrated that things aren't going his way. Forgive me for trying to give him a kick in the rear to put him in the right direction. This is of course nowhere near the quality of your continued posts in this thread. The first one repeated what I said in a much harder to read form and the second one is pointless, since it adds nothing and attempts to attack me, despite the fact you have done nothing to help him.

You can talk about how bad other games are, how there are all these people, and so forth, but the truth is the guy had a chance to use other people and he didn't. He wants to learn OOTP, he stated this after I said that might be aiming high, so he now needs a push to learn it.

Rasnell, you sound like you are trying to sell something. There is a reason that people don't listen to car salesmen for example. If I am doing it so wrong, then why don't you help him. In your own words, with your own ideas.

rasnell · 01-16-2008, 01:48 PM

I misunderstood. Thought you were trying to help instead of being an ass. But you really did mean to be an ass.

frosticle · 01-16-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasnell

I misunderstood. Thought you were trying to help instead of being an ass. But you really did mean to be an ass.

You know what's funny. Almost everyone in the thread, prior to me, attacked him in one form or another. The Wolf wouldn't because he is way too nice, but the majority did. Directly.

I reread my posts, they weren't bad. Compared to others or how I usually am.

Am I an ass? Yes. If you think pointing it out on forums like these will keep me up at night, you need a new hobby.

My posts may be from an ass, may have lots of sarcasm, and may be long, but they far exceed the quality of your posts in this thread. I stand behind that. My first post was helpful to some, my second was the obvious kick in the rear he needs, and the third was just responding to you. I am sorry I did that though. The thing about me is I don't care what people like you think online and I rarely bother with forums. I have lurked some for over a decade without a post. If trying to help that guy, even in my way, is bad, then I say fine... Whatever. What have you done? Posted three small posts trying to incite me to do something and copying what was already said. Ouch.

You can post all you want after this. I'll respond to Teak88, but you aren't worth it.

teak88 · 01-16-2008, 06:27 PM

Gosh, guys; why the anger here? I made, I thought, a simple observation about improving usability. On re-reading my original post, Iagree that I put a bit of oomph in my comments for emphasis, but also made it very very clear that I was truly appreciative of everyones' voluntary contributions.

Andfor this, I am called a "a-hole", "idiot", "spoiled brat", "snobbish", need a "kick in (my)rear", etc. Seem to have struck a cord...although can't figure out what it is.

Now, I don't need to "learn computer basics", I don't need "to try an easier game". I'm a pretty smart fellow who is not totally ignorant of this stuff. In fact, was dealing with it before most posters were born.

My simple comment was that the interface btwn the game and user mods could be more intuitive - and it would be nice if it was. If someone doesn't want to do so w/ their mod, so be it. But, for others, many of us would light a candle for you if you did so.

Beyond that, get a grip, guys!

Ktulu · 01-17-2008, 03:01 PM

I don't get it. First you say that you're having trouble finding where you downloaded files to on your computer and then you don't know what to do once you get them. Now your saying you've been using computers since before most of us were born. Which is it?

Mods for OOTP are about as simple as you can find for any game. The process is far from "insane". Download file > uncompress to appropriate directory(which are extremely user friendly) > take necessary action in game(if any needed).

If you can't do that don't bitch at the mod makers who spend a lot of their free time making mods for others to enjoy. Installing mods takes basic computer skills. If you're having trouble installing a mod ask for help... or better yet help yourself by searching the forum or looking in the excellent game manual. Asking OOTP or mod makers to spend time writing some kind of front end interface is pretty ridiculous IMO.

silvam14 · 01-17-2008, 03:11 PM

One of the only mods that I know of (that I have used), besides Anderson's utilities that has a front end is Icy's mods for Wolverine studios basketball games.

Yes, it is extemely easy to use, and no, most people would not have the knowledge to make such a front end for OOTP mods as Bobble pointed out.

I wasn't trying to call teak "snobbish", I was just trying to say that his initial post came off that way. I have been guilty of meaning well, but not coming off that way myself at times.

Just wanted to clarify

darkcloud4579 · 01-17-2008, 04:10 PM

For what it's worth, I found the initial post to be a little off-kilter too. Mostly because mods are made free and they take a lot of time to make in some cases. People could just do it, leave them and no one finds benefit...then oh well and if they do, that's great.

But in the grand scheme of things, they're not being paid..they can't be paid and so, as a mod maker..when someone reads "hey, thanks for what you do. But make it easier for me!" It's going to come off as self-serving and a little frustration for people who are already underappreciated in relation to the hours and time put into making the game a better experience for ourselves and for everyone else in the community.

So while the point is understood, it could been phrased a lot better. But I think that horse has been sufficiently beaten.

01-16-2008, 09:52 AM	#25
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,746	New users have a valid concern about mod makers who no longer include a read me file or give basics on where to install their files. Don't take for granted that everyone using this is a veteran. I'm just as frustrated with other games, mods and the difficulty of obtaining files. Even patches are unbelieavably hard to find for some games. But the OOTP community and modders are pretty outstanding. You really need to check out all of the files at padrefans site. Those are easy to get to and the link was posted earlier or can be searched via google. __________________ Charlie Root won more games for the Cubs than any pitcher (201), yet was remembered for one pitch to Babe Ruth. Find out more about the 1929 World Series in my book, "Root for the Cubs: Charlie Root and the 1929 Chicago Cubs." See the web site at www.rootforthecubs.com. The book is at http://www.amazon.com/Root-Cubs-Char...t+for+the+cubs. Beta tester, OOTP 2007-2023 and iOOTP 2011-2014.

01-16-2008, 01:34 PM	#27
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,746	Probably not how you meant it, but it does read harshly and sounds more like a long critique than an offer to help. What is simple and straightforward to you obviously is not to the person asking for help. You're not coming across as politely as you may have intended. Hope this serves all of us to remember to help the newest customer over the ropes that we've learned. The more customers and more members of this forum, the greater the chance that OOTP continues on, improves, and gives us all of these great winters where baseball can still be played. __________________ Charlie Root won more games for the Cubs than any pitcher (201), yet was remembered for one pitch to Babe Ruth. Find out more about the 1929 World Series in my book, "Root for the Cubs: Charlie Root and the 1929 Chicago Cubs." See the web site at www.rootforthecubs.com. The book is at http://www.amazon.com/Root-Cubs-Char...t+for+the+cubs. Beta tester, OOTP 2007-2023 and iOOTP 2011-2014.

01-16-2008, 01:48 PM	#29
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,746	I misunderstood. Thought you were trying to help instead of being an ass. But you really did mean to be an ass. __________________ Charlie Root won more games for the Cubs than any pitcher (201), yet was remembered for one pitch to Babe Ruth. Find out more about the 1929 World Series in my book, "Root for the Cubs: Charlie Root and the 1929 Chicago Cubs." See the web site at www.rootforthecubs.com. The book is at http://www.amazon.com/Root-Cubs-Char...t+for+the+cubs. Beta tester, OOTP 2007-2023 and iOOTP 2011-2014.

01-16-2008, 06:27 PM	#31
teak88 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 209	Time Out Gosh, guys; why the anger here? I made, I thought, a simple observation about improving usability. On re-reading my original post, Iagree that I put a bit of oomph in my comments for emphasis, but also made it very very clear that I was truly appreciative of everyones' voluntary contributions. Andfor this, I am called a "a-hole", "idiot", "spoiled brat", "snobbish", need a "kick in (my)rear", etc. Seem to have struck a cord...although can't figure out what it is. Now, I don't need to "learn computer basics", I don't need "to try an easier game". I'm a pretty smart fellow who is not totally ignorant of this stuff. In fact, was dealing with it before most posters were born. My simple comment was that the interface btwn the game and user mods could be more intuitive - and it would be nice if it was. If someone doesn't want to do so w/ their mod, so be it. But, for others, many of us would light a candle for you if you did so. Beyond that, get a grip, guys!

01-17-2008, 03:01 PM	#32
Ktulu Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: BC Posts: 4,506	I don't get it. First you say that you're having trouble finding where you downloaded files to on your computer and then you don't know what to do once you get them. Now your saying you've been using computers since before most of us were born. Which is it? Mods for OOTP are about as simple as you can find for any game. The process is far from "insane". Download file > uncompress to appropriate directory(which are extremely user friendly) > take necessary action in game(if any needed). If you can't do that don't bitch at the mod makers who spend a lot of their free time making mods for others to enjoy. Installing mods takes basic computer skills. If you're having trouble installing a mod ask for help... or better yet help yourself by searching the forum or looking in the excellent game manual. Asking OOTP or mod makers to spend time writing some kind of front end interface is pretty ridiculous IMO. __________________ "The ice is getting even more thinner, my friend!"

01-16-2008, 09:25 AM	#24
teak88 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 209	(/QUOTE) Now with that said, simulators are difficult to use. You are aiming high, thus you need to step it up. OOTP is easy in some aspects, but the internet in general is cruel. Lets start with obtaining the files. You know the links, sure, but you were complaining about MediaFire earlier in CubbyFan's thread. It doesn't get much easier than MediaFire. It links you right to the file. So guess what? If you aren't getting the link, then correct the problem. My guess is that you have Javascript turned off, maybe in the browser preferences or maybe by something like the Firefox addon NoScript. Fix the problem, get the file. Then where to place them? OOTP is one of the few games that is almost completely straight forward about placement of files. Find the directory for the game you have and you will see where each files go. Photos go in photos, caps in caps, etc... Doesn't get any easier than that. If you don't know, ask, we are willing to help. This isn't hard though. For the directory, go into your "My Documents" folder. Then if you have 2007 click on "Sports Interactive" or if you have 8 click on "Out Of The Park Developments". Then click the next two directories you see and all of a sudden a window full of them appears. Almost everything goes in there. Just find the directory and place the files. Have trouble extracting the files from rars or whatever? Use http://www.rarlabs.com or http://www.7-zip.org/ . Then just right click on the files and choose extract here, then place the files inside the directories. Padres Fan has some nice guides at his site and some direct links to download some files: http://web.mac.com/sixwilsons/OOTPMods/ I don't mean this as an insult, but if you find all of this too difficult and you are unwilling to "Google" your problems or ask us on the boards, then a sports simulation game may be aiming too high for you. There are certainly much easier games or things to do online.[/QUOTE] Firstly, I finally got a roster downloaded and installed...thanks to those who made it and to those who offered advice Secondly, per the last para above, I don't "take it as an insult". Rather, I think that your post is a perfect illustration of my point. It all seems so simple and straightforward to you. Great; I'm truly happy for you (no cynicism intended). However, judging from the number of posts on this site asking for help - "Where do I find...", "How do I download...", "How do I get ___to work..." - there are a great number of us who don't find it so self-evident. I never intended my original post to be a complaint or a whine. Simply a comment to the valued mod makers to take things one step further if possible, by pointing out that there are a lot of us who have trouble taking advantage of their generous contribution. In fact, a couple of the mod makers who responded (Bobble, Silvam) made a point that hadn't occurred to me, ie, that the mod makers may be good at data management and graphics but not at front-end coding. Could well be the case. So, I'll re-direct my original comment to Markus & Co. Is there a way to establish/embed protocols that will make the importation of user mods more intuitive?

01-17-2008, 03:11 PM	#33
silvam14 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dedham, MA Posts: 9,961	One of the only mods that I know of (that I have used), besides Anderson's utilities that has a front end is Icy's mods for Wolverine studios basketball games. Yes, it is extemely easy to use, and no, most people would not have the knowledge to make such a front end for OOTP mods as Bobble pointed out. I wasn't trying to call teak "snobbish", I was just trying to say that his initial post came off that way. I have been guilty of meaning well, but not coming off that way myself at times. Just wanted to clarify __________________ Senior "Nancy Boy" of the OOTP Boards _______________________________________________

01-17-2008, 04:10 PM	#34
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 8,690	For what it's worth, I found the initial post to be a little off-kilter too. Mostly because mods are made free and they take a lot of time to make in some cases. People could just do it, leave them and no one finds benefit...then oh well and if they do, that's great. But in the grand scheme of things, they're not being paid..they can't be paid and so, as a mod maker..when someone reads "hey, thanks for what you do. But make it easier for me!" It's going to come off as self-serving and a little frustration for people who are already underappreciated in relation to the hours and time put into making the game a better experience for ourselves and for everyone else in the community. So while the point is understood, it could been phrased a lot better. But I think that horse has been sufficiently beaten.