OOTP 6.51 VS The Newer Verisons

[RchW]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Each version has surely gotten more complicated. But this is my question: is OOTP 8 more easier and more fun to play than 6.51 was?

For me, yes.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Each version has surely gotten more complicated. But this is my question: is OOTP 8 more easier and more fun to play than 6.51 was?

I think EASIER is in the eye of the beholder.

If having more options that I want makes it less EASY to play, well, then I'm happy anyway.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by RchW

For me, yes.

This is the core of the opinion split. Personally I had more fun playing 6.51. Truly OOTP 8 does many, many more things and is fun in its own way, but I had more fun with 6.51. And there seems to be a lot less online leagues and a lot fewer people posting these days - admittedly, that's not scientific.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Each version has surely gotten more complicated. But this is my question: is OOTP 8 more easier and more fun to play than 6.51 was?

To me it certainly isn't any harder to play and in my book is a lot more fun. I can get around just as quickly in v2007 as I could in 6.5 and before. Menus are still across the top and easily accessible. Setting up scouting, as I said earlier, takes a bit of time (in my case having done it a few times about 10 minutes). Playing out spring training is a blast and a lot of fun compared to looking over a glorified spread sheet and assigning numbers to skill sets that I want players to learn.

I play every inning of every game and can play a season in 2007 just as fast as playing one in 6.5. Or if I want to look at stats whether current of from my leagues history I can get lost in the depth. Something that never happened in 6.5 and before.

Minds are not going to likely be changed in this thread. I do think back though to when I found ootp v4. Guys were telling Markus "we want waivers, 40 man, MLB days of service, Professional days of service, disabled list, bonuses, back ended contracts, rule 5, more and more stats leading to a larger database, CATO like feature built into the game, full playable minor leagues, links throughout the game, etc. etc. etc.". Did they really think the game \GUI would not become more complex? Did they think that online file sizes would shrink?

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Minds are not going to likely be changed in this thread. I do think back though to when I found ootp v4. Guys were telling Markus "we want waivers, 40 man, MLB days of service, Professional days of service, disabled list, bonuses, back ended contracts, rule 5, more and more stats leading to a larger database, CATO like feature built into the game, full playable minor leagues, links throughout the game, etc. etc. etc.". Did they really think the game \GUI would not become more complex? Did they think that online file sizes would shrink?

Sweed, Very well said.

[sporr]

I've been around since the beginning. While there is something to be said for the simplicity of prior versions of the game, the real selling points for me and the reason that I prefer the newest version really falls down to two elements. Facegen added a new immersion that can't be found in any of the prior versions. I'm amazed at how much it added to the experience for me. Finally, this is the most realistic version of the game in the entire franchise. Prior versions do not have anywhere near the realistic correlation between ratings or development patterns that this version does. Now this is one of those "under the hood" elements that many probably never notice.

[mgom27]

What this game really needs is two pages from Eastside Hockey Manager Unsigned Prospects and Team Organatizion pages.
The best games out their are OOTP,NHL Eatside Hockey Manager and NFL Coach. Intill Draft Day Pro Basketball adds Overseas Leagues,WNBA,Expansion Draft,World Basketball Tournment,Olympics,other Leagues,Free-Agent Period more then 30 days and so on it would make the list.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by sporr

Finally, this is the most realistic version of the game in the entire franchise. Prior versions do not have anywhere near the realistic correlation between ratings or development patterns that this version does. Now this is one of those "under the hood" elements that many probably never notice.

Well, the sad part is that that is one of the features that would require someone to give the new game a chance to notice

[The Wolf]

Everything the current version's supporters post here may well be true, but what does all of it benefit 6.51 supporters if we had more fun playing 6.51?

And maybe some of you can set up an OOTP 8 league as fast as you could a 6.51 league, but to me there's an order of magnitude worth of time differential. At least.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Everything the current version's supporters post here may well be true, but what does all of it benefit 6.51 supporters if we had more fun playing 6.51?

And maybe some of you can set up an OOTP 8 league as fast as you could a 6.51 league, but to me there's an order of magnitude worth of time differential. At least.

The only benefit someone who enjoys playing 6.51 has is that he/she can still play 6.51. If that person wants the new features that are in the later versions, in 6.51, or think that Markus would improbably revert back to that format, are not benefiting themselves by even thinking that would/could happen.

Like I said in a previous thread. I loved 6.51, but the new versions have just made me outgrow it. I realize it is a matter of personal taste/preference. Its just the way it is

[Neags23]

As one who never owned/played 6.5 and loves 2007/8, I really would like to know what the big deal is about 6.5. Seems like the main issue is ease of use. Is setting up the kind of league you want really that much easier?

I'd like to try an experiment to find out what exactly is easier in 6.5 than 2007. Cooleyvol, I know you said you're finished with this thread, but if you're still around, help me out here. I honestly want to know why 6.5 is easier.

Anyone with 6.5, can we try this? I'd go ahead and buy 6.5, but it's still $20, and too much for me to spend on a game I'd probably shelve in favor of 2007.

Anyhow, here's the experiment:

Choose the type of league you would like to setup with 6.5... complete with whatever options you choose, down to number of teams, team names, league structure, whatever. Count the number of keystrokes and mouse clicks this takes (there are programs that will do this, so don't think this is too tedious).

Then do the same for 2007.

What will the results be?

Anyone willing to try this? I think it'd be very insightful for improving the current user interface which might get some of the 6.5 people to upgrade.

[JasonBonham]

Just some comments from the public.

I mostly used OOTP for playing in online leagues, never been a big solo guy and for the most part at any given time over the last few years I been in anywhere from 2 to 6 leagues. I ran a league for 5 seasons back a few years ago and currently am running another.

I totaly skiped 2007 but just recently been playing around with 8 which was hard to get use to but I starting to find I enjoying it and thinking about buying it but with ootp9 just around the corner I might wait.

I can see as a online guy I would have to trim down how many leagues I was in if they were 2007 version... what makes 6.5 good is the ease of use, you can tend to your team in a resonable amount of time.

One thing I never got into was solo with 6.5, yea I have started a few leagues but because it was so "simple" I got bored very fast, without the interaction of other online coaches it fell flat.

But now I am finding solo with ootp8 is keeping my attention as I dig around and find more cool things to tinker with.

So my conclusion is for online leagues 6.5 works best but when playing solo ootp8 is much much better.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by silvam14

I realize it is a matter of personal taste/preference. Its just the way it is

Yes indeed. Do you like your games tight, compact, limited, and well organized, or do you like them large, expansive, almost unlimited and not so well organized? Both sides have their arguments. All of my favorite games tend toward the former. Your mileage may vary.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Neags23

Cooleyvol, I know you said you're finished with this thread, but if you're still around, help me out here. I honestly want to know...

Good thought, Neags, but l'm wondering if it's to no avail. I am certainly generalizing too greatly here, but it appears another fundamental difference exists between the two factions, with more v2007+ users seeking to understand, while 6.5 < seem firmly rooted with no room for discussion or explanation - my way / highway - almost as if it's more of a personal nature, Wolf and SandMan visible exceptions; they improvise.

That being said, the future framework is already established. From this point, as the saying goes, you're either part of the problem or part of the solution. We have a great opportunity to work together to determine whether there are any options for solutions, but I remain cynical about the chances. If you're at the plate with feet in concrete, it won't matter how rightly you strike the ball, you'll be unable to bring it home.

[legendsport]

As someone who really likes both 6.5 and the 2007/8 (didn't like 2006 much though), I definitely see both sides of the argument and the unfortunate effect its had on online leagues.

I play almost exclusively as the commish of online leagues (except for the occasional solo game to support a dynasty thread). I recently folded all my OOTP leagues, which killed me as I've been running leagues all the way back to v2 and I'm hoping that v9 can fix some of the issues that killed the old leagues.

The reasons were simple - as Cooleyvol said, the online league "chatter" is way, way down. My 6.5 leagues, one of which ran for 40+ seasons before I pulled the plug last week, could not get any new members. I understand this because there basically aren't any "new" players playing 6.5 and those that still do play 6.5 are either in leagues already or playing solo. As for the 2007/8 league, the GMs were constantly complaining about how long it took to do the updates, how complicated it was to maneuver within and make changes, etc - and so I could never keep that league full either.

Personally I don't have a problem moving around in the new version and can do everything in a reasonable amount of time - but it is more time-consuming to manage in the new version than it was in 6.5, so I can see why some guys would get turned off.

And I've been around a long time as well, and though I never posted as frequently as a lot of others, I do see that what Cooley is saying about the number of members and posts is absolutely true.

Now as I said, I really, really love both versions. I love 6.5 because it is simple to use yet produces good results - and it's fun. Yeah, there are hoops to jump through to get the most out of it, but I was and am willing to do those things because the game is simply tremendous.

2007/8 is a great game - it's got a lot going on, for sure, but it models baseball like nothing else ever has. It's ultra-flexible and extremely powerful. It allows me to do the things I've always wanted - run a historical sim with MLB and the Negro Leagues going side by side - or my dynasty where I model the 19th century with all the leagues and teams folding, moving around etc (talk about hoops to jump through!).

So it's a dicey subject and I find myself agreeing with a lot of the stuff said by both sides in this argument. 6.5 is great game and so is 2007. But they're not really the same "type" of game despite having the same name. And I've accepted that the series has moved on and though it'd be nice to have an updated version that looked and "felt" like 6.5, it's not going to happen.

I hold out great hope for v9. I don't know if it can heal the rift between the 6.5 and SI-era's adherents, but I hope it brings some life back to the online league community.

[The Wolf]

Well put, Legendsport. You made some very good points.

[darkenigma510]

I wonder if the possible solution is an online version of the game that is basically OOTP Lite...it seems like online players like it simpler whereas solo players prefer the more sandbox approach of OOTP2007/8...

[legendsport]

Originally Posted by darkenigma510

I wonder if the possible solution is an online version of the game that is basically OOTP Lite...it seems like online players like it simpler whereas solo players prefer the more sandbox approach of OOTP2007/8...

That's an interesting idea - to take it one step further, maybe make it a sort of "GM Client" where the commish gets all the power & flexibility of OOTP 2007/8 to mold the league however he'd like, but the GMs get a stripped-down, run-your-team-only version that's easy to navigate. All the client would need to be able to do is connect & d/l the league file and let the GM get basic stats and the ability manage his team & export changes - all the simming, full reports & so forth could be left out. It'd probably run faster at the very least.

The sim I use for my hockey league - STHS - has this approach (and the client's actually free). Not sure how practical it'd be for something with the horsepower of OOTP, but it's an interesting idea.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by darkenigma510

I wonder if the possible solution is an online version of the game that is basically OOTP Lite...it seems like online players like it simpler whereas solo players prefer the more sandbox approach of OOTP2007/8...

I'm wondering if you're referring to this, that was in this thread http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=154917

Originally Posted by battists

OOTP Online
Possibly the biggest news for today is that we are currently designing a new game, based on OOTP, called "OOTP Online". OOTP Online will be a subscription-based online league version of OOTP, that will be marketed towards fantasy baseball players. OOTP Online would use the OOTP engine for simulating, but would be competely hosted, and would be largely automated. OOTP Online would not replace OOTP 9, nor would it eliminate support for online leagues in OOTP 9. Some of the planned features for OOTP Online include:

• A web-based front end where GMs can submit transaction changes even when away from their PCs
• A "lite" OOTP client that would receive a "changes-only" file from the server each sim, eliminating large file downloads.
• An integrated message board within the lite client, so that GMs can access the league message board from within the game
• An integrated chat program within the lite client, so that GMs can chat with each other
• A points-based subscription system where leagues could win points that could be used to pay for subsequent seasons, etc.
• Support for historical leagues, something that has never really been present in the fantasy baseball world.

There is no release date for OOTP Online as of yet, but it will be after OOTP 9. We're very excited about this, and really feel it can help bring OOTP to a completely new audience.

[RBLwebguy]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Today, there's less than ten leagues that I would say fall into that category and most of those are holdovers from the earlier versions.

If you are looking for one of those leagues, check this out

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...18#post2393118

almost into it's 30th season going from OOTP4 to 6.5!