so no CD version i take it?

[Sturmie]

i've been searchin around this forum for bout 20 mins now and haven't been able to find the info i'm looking for...i heard a rumor that OOTP5 is gonna be released on CD some time soon...is this true? i also heard (a disappointing rumor) that the CD version would use e-Licensing as well....is this true?

now i don't want to get into an e-Licensing debate, but i will never buy another e-Licensed product again....however, i would like to play OOTP5 - i like Season Ticket 2003 v1.6 (R.I.P.) and would like to continue to support Markus and his efforts, but, thanks to Digital River and the Front Office Football 2 fiasco, i am soured on e-Licensing for life and nothing anyone says will ever change my mind on that.


thanks for the info....sturmie

[Steve Kuffrey]

There is a "CD" available https://www.elicense.com/400software.../offer_cds.asp however, it is also elicensed as well.

[Springtime_for_Hunter]

I'm going to second Sturmie's post; I love STB2K3, but will not be buying OOTP5 because of the elicense.

If there are others like us, please post here - it would be nice for Marcus & Co. to have good data on the effect of the elicense-only decision, so they can make better decisions about whether the lost sales outweigh whatever benefits they perceive in this system.

[JML]

Originally posted by Springtime_for_Hunter
I'm going to second Sturmie's post; I love STB2K3, but will not be buying OOTP5 because of the elicense.

If there are others like us, please post here - it would be nice for Marcus & Co. to have good data on the effect of the elicense-only decision, so they can make better decisions about whether the lost sales outweigh whatever benefits they perceive in this system.

I'm curious what the downsides of elicense are that are so horrific. I've never had any problems with it. Is it a compatibility thing? A security thing? Is it too broad a topic to discuss here?

[JWay]

Originally posted by Springtime_for_Hunter
I'm going to second Sturmie's post; I love STB2K3, but will not be buying OOTP5 because of the elicense.

If there are others like us, please post here - it would be nice for Marcus & Co. to have good data on the effect of the elicense-only decision, so they can make better decisions about whether the lost sales outweigh whatever benefits they perceive in this system.

It should be noted that Infrogrames or whoever put out season ticket baseball, dropped the season ticket series. And this was the best they could do for now.

[I Am The Game]

Originally posted by JML
I'm curious what the downsides of elicense are that are so horrific. I've never had any problems with it. Is it a compatibility thing? A security thing? Is it too broad a topic to discuss here?

As am I.

Anyway, about the lost sales, if they put it out on CD without eLicense, I'm sure they'd lose a lot more sales from people just burning the CDs and putting them out, and/or you'd find it all over Kazaa Lite and those other file sharing programs.

[John C]

Is it a credit card security issue? Because I know you can send them a money order for the game.

-John

[asamford]

have purchased OOTP3, 4, and 5 online with e-license and have had zero problems ever.

[Sturmie]

i will get into more detail later from work (i'm leaving home right now)...but since u all asked, i will share the story of e-Licensing: The Early Days .


sturmie

[CommishJoe]

Originally posted by Sturmie
i will get into more detail later from work (i'm leaving home right now)...but since u all asked, i will share the story of e-Licensing: The Early Days .


sturmie

I look forward to it I've never had any problems with e-license.

[markprior22]

From what I've heard...Digital River was a nightmare. Viatech seems to run smoothly and has excellent support. Don't know what else to say.

[Steve Kuffrey]

I've never had any problems but I would hazard to guess that "the beginning" may have been a bit rocky but, as with many businesses, etc after that they smooth out and run relatively trouble free.

[tcblcommish]

Anyway, about the lost sales, if they put it out on CD without eLicense, I'm sure they'd lose a lot more sales from people just burning the CDs and putting them out, and/or you'd find it all over Kazaa Lite and those other file sharing programs.

I am thinking that most people suspect that because you use Elicence that the warez scene doesn't hack or crack the game. Well, if you travel the message boards root and other file sharing places you will notice that OOTP5 is available for download.

Elicence is not a stop for hackers that know what they are doing.

[Sturmie]

as promised, here it is - e-Licensing: The Early Days...

the year was 1999 and the highly touted Front Office Football series (brainchild of independent developer Jim Gindin) was to be released by game publishing giant, EASPORTS as Front Office Football 2 (aka FOF2). hopes were high and anticipation was even higher...although, that quickly changed. once the game was released (as a download), u had to "license" the game each time u freshly installed it....good concept, i guess....but that soon raised questions - what if the company went out of business? what happens if i reformat my machine?...well, those questions soon turned into, what if the company supporting the licenses didn't have a f**king clue what the hell they were doing?!?

as any pc geek knows, u can reformat ur machine a few times a year easily - new hardware, new OS, etc. well, every time u did that, u had to call Digital River (aka DR) *shudder* to get them to "reset" ur license. problem was, u could never get anyone on the phone that knew what "reset my license for FOF2" meant...each time u needed a new license, u had to spend 20 minutes (minimum) on the phone tryin to get a hold of someone w/ FOF2 knowledge. well, after 3 or 4 times, i finally found a main "contact" point from then on and life was ok (not necessarily good though).

now, as any sim gamer knows, a good sports sim can hold its own for years...unless a newer version of the same series is released, which was the case w/ FOF2001 - new interface, new AI...the works. finally, u could unlicense and re-license the game freely as u reformatted or moved the install to a new pc...life was better....made us all forget about the perils of having to call DR every few months. well, this quickly changed....EASPORTS got pissed off w/ some people in the FOF Community (i can supply the link later - i have the msg board bookmarked at home) and decided that they weren't gonna support the FOF series anymore following the release of FOF2002 - which essentially was a roster update and that's it. without support, no one that "owned" the game could install it again...which lead many in the community, including forum moderators, to turn to the "warez scene" and find a crack FOF2001 just to even play the game they had come to know and love.

since then, the FOF series has been picked back up by Jim Gindin and i was in the first order batch for FOF4 on CD. i love supporting smaller developers and still have the CDs of OOTP2, FOF: The College Years, Season Ticket Baseball, etc. i just never want to get into a sitaution where something that i paid for, is suddenly useless to me.

and to all the people that believe that if 400 Studios (or any other small time developer) went under, they will release a fix that will allow u to play w/o licensing it, i still have my 4MB install file for FOF2 -just taking up space on a CD archive from a few years back- if anyone wants a copy....i stopped holding my breath years ago for EASPORTS to come thru and allow me to play it again (thanks to the crack tho, i still fire up FOF2001 now and again ).


sturmie


*EDIT*

Originally posted by tcblcommish
Well, if you travel the message boards root and other file sharing places you will notice that OOTP5 is available for download.

Elicence is not a stop for hackers that know what they are doing.

to build on tcblcommish's point, it's true...u can find anything u want if u look hard enough...i just really want to buy OOTP5, so i haven't looked that much. if a product is good, people will support it. why not come out w/ a copy protected CD for the game? i'm not just talking a serial number either, i'm talking about a CDilla (or something) protected disc that wards off the "casual copier"? this way, people that want the game on CD, have the option and can't just easily share it. i can't imagine that Springtime_for_Hunter and i are the only that aren't purchasing OOTP5 b/c of the e-Licensing...there are many peeps that are soured on this type of "copy protection". seriously, 400 Studios is just taking $$ outta their own pockets if u ask me.

[Steve Kuffrey]

Your point is understandable and as I mentioned before as with any "new" thing is going to have issues, but "as a whole"(understanding that no system is w/o fault) eLicensing of software is relatively trouble free and cost effective for the developer.

We produced CD's for a couple of versions (some on our own and others via an publishing company) and while they can at times be an easier solution for the customer they present a whole other area of problems which have been well documented in various other topics along this line.

At this time eLicensing is our chosen method of distribution this may or may not change for future versions.

[Sturmie]

steve,

i know u can't say for certain, but would would happen if 400 Studios were to possibly go under? or Via-Tech? do u have a contingency plan, or u guys gonna leave all ur customers out to dry like EASPORTS?...for the record, i doubt u would do what EASPORTS did.


just wondering....sturmie

[Steve Kuffrey]

I don't know that the issue has been discussed at this point in time, but I'm sure that it will and a plan will be "in place" when/if needed.

[Bluenoser]

I brought this up before and will chime in here again.

For me it has nothing to do with credit card security, and for someone to say it will only wind up on Kazaa or something similar is just making a poor excuse.

There are 1000's of games released on CD, that are full install and not required to be licensed. Yep, you see some of them pirated, and some you don't. This is something that won't go away for quite some time.

The issue for me is, I'm in the navy, I take my laptop (which does not have internet connectivity) with me when I go on deployments, long and short. If I have a crash or have to re-install the game for whatever reason, I'm screwed.

I mentioned this before and was told, oh, you can call elicense and they'll help you out. Well, have you ever tried making a long distance call from the middle of the Atlantic?

I have no problem plunking down $35 for this game, as I think it's worth that easily. But I would like to have a full install on CD, so I can take it with me. I'll sign a waiver or whatever you like swearing I won't copy, sell, or pirate it or anything like that.

I buy Links golf every edition, and get full install, I buy other games and get full install, but to buy and play OOTP I pretty much have to have online connectivity.

And another thing that bothers me is the limit to 2 licenses. I have 3 computers at home beside my laptop, so to install my game on all 4, I need to plunk down $70....which I am NOT prepared to do. Personally, I believe I should only have to buy the game once.

Sorry if I sound a bit aggravated, but this has been a sore point with me since I started playing OOTP.

And yes, I understand the developer is trying to protect his interests. Just like I (the consumer) am trying to protect mine and get what I feel I deserve for my money.

And yes, I did buy it through elicense so I can play at home. I don't have any problem with elicense, it's worked fine for me every year. I just feel if I pay for it, it should be mine without restrictions.

[Sturmie]

Originally posted by BruceM
I just feel if I pay for it, it should be mine without restrictions.

amen brutha! exactly my point....not being able to play FOF2 or FOF2001 (w/o the crack) is a huge restriction.


sturmie

[spleen1015]

When you buy software, whether it be a game or a business application, you're not buying the software itself. You're buying the right to run the software, a license to run that software.

When you dropped $35 on OOTP5, you bought the right to run the game on 2 computers.