Free agent contracts extending too long

Corsairs · 01-03-2008, 03:26 PM

I've just noticed what seems to be a very serious bug in how free agent contracts are handled for our league. Young players who are signed to major league contracts are showing up as under contract beyond what they signed for.

I'll give a specific example. The West Virginia Coal Sox signed 21 year-old MR Hiroya Kobayashi to a 1 yr/$1.78M major league contract before the season started. At the time of the signing he was properly showing up on WV's Player Salaries page as under contract for just 1 year. We've just started our 2007 season and now all of a sudden Kobayashi is listed as under contract for '08 and '09 at league minimum ($380k), plus arbitration eligible for 3 years following that. It's as if he was just called up from the minors (minus the big '07 salary, of course).

What's causing this to happen, and more importantly how do I go about fixing it? The editor still lists these players as having whatever contract they signed; I see nowhere to remove the extra years. No changes I've made in the editor have had any effect, at any rate.

I don't know if it's related, but a couple owners have reported a situation where hitting "Meet Demand" on the contract extension page results in bizarre and unworkable requests like 2 years at 7.5M and a 3rd year at $380k. I cannot replicate this on my end.

There are a bunch of players affected and this is shaping up to be a major problem. Between this and our league's other bug, we could really use some assistance before our next sim (scheduled for Monday).

Nutlaw · 01-03-2008, 07:24 PM

If you are using default settings, arbitration kicks in after three years of major league service and free agency kicks in after six years of major league service. The player you have listed is shown as having three years of pro service, which is not the same thing. Pro service starts counting from when a player was drafted. Major league service only counts time spent in the majors.

Assuming that the player below has no years of major league service, the game is functioning by the books. The AI is maybe questionable for not demanding a better deal, but a player good enough to command that sort of salary shouldn't normally be a free agent with no major league service time.

Corsairs · 01-03-2008, 08:09 PM

Okay, fair enough, it's possible I'm misunderstanding the functioning here. Let me just make sure I have it straight. I get the distinction between pro and major league service, but I was under the impression that players signed as free agents were only under contract for the length of time agreed to in the terms of the deal.

Taking a different example, I signed a prime free agent to a 2 year deal at $4.5M per season. Similar to the example above, this player was just short of 1 year major league service when I signed him. He now shows up as being under my control for 6 years: the first two at $4.5M, the third at $380k (league minimum), and the final 3 as arbitration eligible.

Now if you confirm that's the way it's supposed to behave, I'll believe you. For the life of me, though, I just can't think of any analogous real-world situation where a player would knowingly sign a contract that would have his salary plummet in year 2 and/or 3. So if it's not a bug, maybe it's at least something that needs looking at for the next version of the game? For my part, I'll be satisfied with confirmation that this is indeed expected behavior for OOTP.

Nutlaw · 01-03-2008, 08:55 PM

I'm fairly sure that it is expected behavior. I believe that in real life MLB situations, special clauses are made in contracts for experienced players with no major league service time (such as players transferring from foreign leagues). Don't quote me on it. OOTP doesn't have such clauses.

Where did these free agents come from? Other leagues with early free agency settings? Were their major league service times edited? Again, you wouldn't normally see these sorts of guys available.

Corsairs · 01-03-2008, 09:23 PM

These players were all generated during our first year startup process. Our league has four AI international major leagues, each set for players not reach free agency until 8-10 years have passed (arbitration at between 6-8 years). Our human league is set to the standard 6 years to free agency/3 years to arbitration.

With these settings, am I correct in assuming that this situation won't arise in the future? I would think that since future international free agents need 8-10 years of major league service before they're eligible for free agency, by the time they reach us they'll have passed the point where this kind of thing can happen. If not, I will definitely have to come up with a house rule to prevent players from suffering huge drops in salary in their 2nd or 3rd year (which will impact their arbitration award as well).

Nutlaw · 01-03-2008, 10:07 PM

Yeah, as long as your leagues are set to use the amateur draft and no one goes around dropping well-developed young players, I don't see how you'd end up with these types of guys floating around in a FA pool.

Corsairs · 01-03-2008, 10:49 PM

Okay, I'm willing to accept that. As long as this is a one-time thing I think we can live with it without bothering with any special rules. Since we're set up to use the amateur draft and our international leagues have long free agency requirements, we'll probably be okay going forward. Hopefully the next version of the game will have some provisions for insuring that generated first year free agents can't be signed to such strangely structured contracts.

Thanks for the help, and consider this case closed!

thepbl · 01-04-2008, 12:34 AM

I have a feeling he got the minimum simply because he was eligible to receive it once his contract would renew. using default ootp settings, players are eligibile for minimum 3years then 3 years aritration. if this payer was signed in free agency without ever stepping onto the active roster... then this is exactly how it should be

01-03-2008, 03:26 PM	#1
Corsairs Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,360	Free agent contracts extending too long I've just noticed what seems to be a very serious bug in how free agent contracts are handled for our league. Young players who are signed to major league contracts are showing up as under contract beyond what they signed for. I'll give a specific example. The West Virginia Coal Sox signed 21 year-old MR Hiroya Kobayashi to a 1 yr/$1.78M major league contract before the season started. At the time of the signing he was properly showing up on WV's Player Salaries page as under contract for just 1 year. We've just started our 2007 season and now all of a sudden Kobayashi is listed as under contract for '08 and '09 at league minimum ($380k), plus arbitration eligible for 3 years following that. It's as if he was just called up from the minors (minus the big '07 salary, of course). What's causing this to happen, and more importantly how do I go about fixing it? The editor still lists these players as having whatever contract they signed; I see nowhere to remove the extra years. No changes I've made in the editor have had any effect, at any rate. I don't know if it's related, but a couple owners have reported a situation where hitting "Meet Demand" on the contract extension page results in bizarre and unworkable requests like 2 years at 7.5M and a 3rd year at $380k. I cannot replicate this on my end. There are a bunch of players affected and this is shaping up to be a major problem. Between this and our league's other bug, we could really use some assistance before our next sim (scheduled for Monday). Last edited by Corsairs; 01-03-2008 at 04:07 PM. Reason: Added pictures

01-03-2008, 07:24 PM	#2
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	If you are using default settings, arbitration kicks in after three years of major league service and free agency kicks in after six years of major league service. The player you have listed is shown as having three years of pro service, which is not the same thing. Pro service starts counting from when a player was drafted. Major league service only counts time spent in the majors. Assuming that the player below has no years of major league service, the game is functioning by the books. The AI is maybe questionable for not demanding a better deal, but a player good enough to command that sort of salary shouldn't normally be a free agent with no major league service time.

01-03-2008, 08:09 PM	#3
Corsairs Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,360	Okay, fair enough, it's possible I'm misunderstanding the functioning here. Let me just make sure I have it straight. I get the distinction between pro and major league service, but I was under the impression that players signed as free agents were only under contract for the length of time agreed to in the terms of the deal. Taking a different example, I signed a prime free agent to a 2 year deal at $4.5M per season. Similar to the example above, this player was just short of 1 year major league service when I signed him. He now shows up as being under my control for 6 years: the first two at $4.5M, the third at $380k (league minimum), and the final 3 as arbitration eligible. Now if you confirm that's the way it's supposed to behave, I'll believe you. For the life of me, though, I just can't think of any analogous real-world situation where a player would knowingly sign a contract that would have his salary plummet in year 2 and/or 3. So if it's not a bug, maybe it's at least something that needs looking at for the next version of the game? For my part, I'll be satisfied with confirmation that this is indeed expected behavior for OOTP.

01-03-2008, 08:55 PM	#4
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	I'm fairly sure that it is expected behavior. I believe that in real life MLB situations, special clauses are made in contracts for experienced players with no major league service time (such as players transferring from foreign leagues). Don't quote me on it. OOTP doesn't have such clauses. Where did these free agents come from? Other leagues with early free agency settings? Were their major league service times edited? Again, you wouldn't normally see these sorts of guys available.

01-03-2008, 09:23 PM	#5
Corsairs Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,360	These players were all generated during our first year startup process. Our league has four AI international major leagues, each set for players not reach free agency until 8-10 years have passed (arbitration at between 6-8 years). Our human league is set to the standard 6 years to free agency/3 years to arbitration. With these settings, am I correct in assuming that this situation won't arise in the future? I would think that since future international free agents need 8-10 years of major league service before they're eligible for free agency, by the time they reach us they'll have passed the point where this kind of thing can happen. If not, I will definitely have to come up with a house rule to prevent players from suffering huge drops in salary in their 2nd or 3rd year (which will impact their arbitration award as well).

01-03-2008, 10:07 PM	#6
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	Yeah, as long as your leagues are set to use the amateur draft and no one goes around dropping well-developed young players, I don't see how you'd end up with these types of guys floating around in a FA pool.

01-03-2008, 10:49 PM	#7
Corsairs Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,360	Okay, I'm willing to accept that. As long as this is a one-time thing I think we can live with it without bothering with any special rules. Since we're set up to use the amateur draft and our international leagues have long free agency requirements, we'll probably be okay going forward. Hopefully the next version of the game will have some provisions for insuring that generated first year free agents can't be signed to such strangely structured contracts. Thanks for the help, and consider this case closed!

01-04-2008, 12:34 AM	#8
thepbl Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60	I have a feeling he got the minimum simply because he was eligible to receive it once his contract would renew. using default ootp settings, players are eligibile for minimum 3years then 3 years aritration. if this payer was signed in free agency without ever stepping onto the active roster... then this is exactly how it should be