Manipulating the Trading AI

evangel · 03-19-2003, 06:52 PM

Well, after about 15 seasons in manager mode, I've figured out the weakness in the trading AI. Just so I don't get hammered, I don't look for weaknesses to exploit them (in the long run), I look for them in order to provide feedback to help improve the computer's ability.

The computer places MUCH less importance on prospects in this version. After four seasons of trading two-three star established players for 5-star prospects, my minor league system now has a score of 612, with the next closest team having a score of 85. My team has a payroll of 65,000,000 and is winning 110-115 games just about every year. When my players get old enough to demand high salaries, I simply trade them for 3-4 more 5-star prospects and continue the trend. It takes about 7-8 years to really get rolling with this strategy, but over the long haul, no computer-controlled team can touch you.

Is this something that can be tweaked? Would simply raising the importance the computer places on prospects solve this? Not sure. I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to trading algorithms, but it seems like this is something that would be beneficial to improve. I know the obvious answer is, "Don't abuse the stinking system!" but I don't always have that much self-control!

I love the addition of manager mode so that a blown bargaining deal doesn't tempt me to add an extra year to his existing contract. Now we just need to get rid of the "prospect loophole."

captainstarball · 03-19-2003, 07:11 PM

I agree that the computer controlled teams don't value their prospects highly enough. I always thought this was a small problem in OOTP4 also, the strategy evangel mentioned always worked fine with me in OOTP4.

I don't have that large a sample yet but so far I seem to have been able to trade marginal starters to teams requiring players in those positions for 5 star prospects. I need to sim a little more to see how their careers turn out but so far my scout evaluation seems correct.

I have seen a few posts where some people say AI trading is too hard and some say its too easy. I think both are right. Its too easy to get prospects from AI teams and too hard to get solid veterans from AI teams (could be wrong on the latter, just have seen a lot of people mention this).

One thing that would be cool is if the AI controlled teams decided they were in a rebuilding year or pennant race year. Rebuilding teams would almost never trade prospects for veterans but pennant teams would be much more likely to give up prospects for established players to win immediately.

Like evanangel pointed out people will say don't abuse the system. However, this is kind of hard because when you are rebuilding the best way is to trade for prospects and I hate to make an offer, get it accepted and then stop it because I need to decide its not fair for the other team.

Royal07 · 03-19-2003, 07:22 PM

You can get solid veterans from the Free Agent pool, the computer teams will drop solid veteran players, for some reason.

Now getting the veteran of your choice may be hard, I havent come to that bridge yet.

evangel · 03-19-2003, 07:40 PM

This just adds another dimension to the problem, as it is easy to sign a decent veteran to a one-year deal, and then turn around immediately and trade him to a needy team for 5-star prospects, and it doesn't cost you a thing!

I know this is pretty extreme manipulation of the system, but it works - a little too well.

atomheart · 03-19-2003, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by captainstarball
One thing that would be cool is if the AI controlled teams decided they were in a rebuilding year or pennant race year. Rebuilding teams would almost never trade prospects for veterans but pennant teams would be much more likely to give up prospects for established players to win immediately.

Excellent thought. You should be able to "talk" to other cpu GMs and see what the status of their club is. Are they rebuilding? Just looking to shed some payroll? Or are they looking for that final piece or two to win it all?

Also, it would be nice to be able to let other GM's know exactly what period you're in. Say, if you're in the top half in payroll but in the bottom half in standings, other GM's should be able to clue in on this and act accordingly.

KCRoyalsFan · 03-19-2003, 09:01 PM

i like that idea too...team like the Royals are rebuilding and might give up a veteran such as Grimsley.

tcblcommish · 03-19-2003, 10:06 PM

Quote:

One thing that would be cool is if the AI controlled teams decided they were in a rebuilding year or pennant race year. Rebuilding teams would almost never trade prospects for veterans but pennant teams would be much more likely to give up prospects for established players to win immediately.

There was a game that had that, cannot remember what game it was. I don't even remember what sport it was but they listed the team in one of several ways.

Looking to win now
looking to deal for players to make a run
rebuilding.

I am sure there were more but I can't think of them. I knwo when a team was rebuilding, you couldn't get a solid prospect from them unless you gave up more prospects that were better but the Great Vets that had high contracts could be had for solid prospects. that was great when you were rebuilding or trying to win. You could see some great deadlin deasl because of that

03-19-2003, 06:52 PM	#1
evangel Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 79	Manipulating the Trading AI Well, after about 15 seasons in manager mode, I've figured out the weakness in the trading AI. Just so I don't get hammered, I don't look for weaknesses to exploit them (in the long run), I look for them in order to provide feedback to help improve the computer's ability. The computer places MUCH less importance on prospects in this version. After four seasons of trading two-three star established players for 5-star prospects, my minor league system now has a score of 612, with the next closest team having a score of 85. My team has a payroll of 65,000,000 and is winning 110-115 games just about every year. When my players get old enough to demand high salaries, I simply trade them for 3-4 more 5-star prospects and continue the trend. It takes about 7-8 years to really get rolling with this strategy, but over the long haul, no computer-controlled team can touch you. Is this something that can be tweaked? Would simply raising the importance the computer places on prospects solve this? Not sure. I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to trading algorithms, but it seems like this is something that would be beneficial to improve. I know the obvious answer is, "Don't abuse the stinking system!" but I don't always have that much self-control! I love the addition of manager mode so that a blown bargaining deal doesn't tempt me to add an extra year to his existing contract. Now we just need to get rid of the "prospect loophole."

03-19-2003, 07:11 PM	#2
captainstarball Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 112	I agree that the computer controlled teams don't value their prospects highly enough. I always thought this was a small problem in OOTP4 also, the strategy evangel mentioned always worked fine with me in OOTP4. I don't have that large a sample yet but so far I seem to have been able to trade marginal starters to teams requiring players in those positions for 5 star prospects. I need to sim a little more to see how their careers turn out but so far my scout evaluation seems correct. I have seen a few posts where some people say AI trading is too hard and some say its too easy. I think both are right. Its too easy to get prospects from AI teams and too hard to get solid veterans from AI teams (could be wrong on the latter, just have seen a lot of people mention this). One thing that would be cool is if the AI controlled teams decided they were in a rebuilding year or pennant race year. Rebuilding teams would almost never trade prospects for veterans but pennant teams would be much more likely to give up prospects for established players to win immediately. Like evanangel pointed out people will say don't abuse the system. However, this is kind of hard because when you are rebuilding the best way is to trade for prospects and I hate to make an offer, get it accepted and then stop it because I need to decide its not fair for the other team.

03-19-2003, 07:22 PM	#3
Royal07 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 30	You can get solid veterans from the Free Agent pool, the computer teams will drop solid veteran players, for some reason. Now getting the veteran of your choice may be hard, I havent come to that bridge yet.

03-19-2003, 07:40 PM	#4
evangel Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 79	This just adds another dimension to the problem, as it is easy to sign a decent veteran to a one-year deal, and then turn around immediately and trade him to a needy team for 5-star prospects, and it doesn't cost you a thing! I know this is pretty extreme manipulation of the system, but it works - a little too well.

03-19-2003, 09:01 PM	#6
KCRoyalsFan All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 599	i like that idea too...team like the Royals are rebuilding and might give up a veteran such as Grimsley.