Why is this a save? - Page 3

Doctor No · 08-22-2007, 03:12 PM

I get the three-inning saves all the time in OOTP - through a combination of decisions and happenstance, I currently have eight major-league quality starting pitchers, and my relief pitchers are terrible.

So I've been limiting my starters to 100 pitches or so and letting my less-good starters finish things. And I'm finally competing for a division title in my eleventh season of the league.

Comedian2004 · 08-22-2007, 03:40 PM

I should have been a baseball detective (No wise cracks)

Assos · 08-22-2007, 04:43 PM

Now that is interesting and amazing that you could find that.

Dagrims · 08-22-2007, 08:05 PM

Comedian, nice article. I wonder if Shore got credit for the shutout in 1917 when he replaced Ruth after the leadoff batter reached base on four consecutive balls (Ruth was ejected for arguing), the runner was thrown out stealing, and then Shore retired the next 26 batters in a row.

Assos · 08-22-2007, 10:02 PM

Hark, another worthless save:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas..._boxscore.html

Left-handed Badger · 08-23-2007, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zuty

I disagree. (Not that it matters, since neither you nor I nor anyone here on the boards can amend the rule book.)

But I disagree. A save is an acknowledgement that a relief pitcher preserved a victory for a winning pitcher. In general, he did not allow the opposition to tie the game or take a lead.

And so there is some differentiation between having to work hard and not having to work as hard to get a save, the rules were laid out. Pitch the last inning only, well, it's got to be a close game. Pitch a few innings, and it doesn't have to be so close.

Just because closers are a commodity now, and the stat of "saves" has come to identify certain pitchers as being better than others does NOT justify the elimination of the concept of the save. Even a mop-up pitcher has to work hard to pitch three innings and not give up a lead.

Of course, saves (like wins, losses, runs scored, runs batted in, and so many others) are stats that are inappropriately assigned to an individual, when the event can only have happened because of team play. No matter how great a pitcher is, he can't get a win if his team doesn't score more runs than he gives up. And no matter how great a hitter is, he won't score a run unless someone behind him drives him in. (Yes, I'm aware that a home run will score without the help of another player. Let "home run" be one of the few truly individual stats.)

Baseball as an institution doesn't do anything to identify "closers" as being different from any other reliever. Sure, teams have that designation, and fans know what it means. But it doesn't seem logical to me for baseball to change a rule (which isn't causing trouble for anyone) to accommodate the concept of a specialized reliever.

I think the 3-inning rule is great. That mop-up deserves that save as a reward for saving the rest of the bullpen overwork.

I generally get 2 or 3 of these a year in OOTP, personally. But, then I have had a long reliever who only got into 40 games or so where I ended up getting him about 100 innings of relief work. It was more or less a 6th starter though.

zekester91 · 08-23-2007, 12:36 PM

Littleton got a save yesterday in a 30 to 3 blow out....

Assos · 08-23-2007, 02:23 PM

You, or I, or Jabba the Hutt could have gotten the save with that lead.

zekester91 · 08-23-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assos

You, or I, or Jabba the Hutt could have gotten the save with that lead.

I dought I or Jabba the hutt have the stamani or the pitch selection to even get one MLB batter out let alone 9. If I was pitching in that game it would have been 100 to 30 and they would have had to cart me off the feild as my arm would have fallen off.

Erik W. · 08-23-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assos

You, or I, or Jabba the Hutt could have gotten the save with that lead.

I don't think Jabba's arms are long enough to throw a ball 60 feet.

Oh snap, that was a geeky thing to say.

Mattymo · 08-23-2007, 03:51 PM

Maybe not Jabba the hut, but I'm sure Joba "the hut" Chamberlain could have gotten the save.

Assos · 08-23-2007, 04:06 PM

Boomer! You play OTTP!

Exactly my point, Jaba can not get a major league hitter out, and neither could the Baltimore pitching staff.

eriqjaffe · 08-23-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assos

Exactly my point, Jaba can not get a major league hitter out, and neither could the Baltimore pitching staff.

Nonsense. The O's tied the MLB record for most outs recorded in a 9-inning game.

jasonn29tn14 · 08-24-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe

Nonsense. The O's tied the MLB record for most outs recorded in a 9-inning game.

And the Rangers' hitters tied the MLB record for most outs made in a 9 inning game.

ednote · 08-24-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comedian2004

... Only 4,000 people were in attendance at this game. Which is really strange, since Ryan was the starter ...

The game being played in 1971, it means it occurred at least two years before Nolan Ryan was anything close to resembling a box office draw.

orwell · 08-24-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

He pitched for three innings through to the end of the game, and held the lead.

Based on these rules:

10.19 Saves For Relief Pitchers
A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19.
The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions:
(a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;
(b) He is not the winning pitcher;
(c) He is credited with at least a third of an inning pitched; and
(d) He satisfies one of the following conditions:
(1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning;
(2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or
(3) He pitches for at least three innings.

Does that mean if a reliever entered a game with his team leading by five runs with the bases loaded and two outs, and he recorded the out to win the game, he'd get a save, since the "potential tying run" would have been on deck? That seems a little lame, but I guess that's the rule, and no more lame than the "longevity" save awarded in the 30-3 game the other day.

Sdpm100 · 08-24-2007, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orwell

Does that mean if a reliever entered a game with his team leading by five runs with the bases loaded and two outs, and he recorded the out to win the game, he'd get a save, since the "potential tying run" would have been on deck?

Yes, that's correct.

Here's an example of it.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/wrap.jsp?ymd...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

cbbl · 08-27-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe

Nonsense. The O's tied the MLB record for most outs recorded in a 9-inning game.

In meek defense of my hapless O's, they did strike out 11 of the 27 batters faced. That's not bad.

Of course, in between those strikeouts were a lot of hits ... and doubles ... and home runs ...

08-22-2007, 03:40 PM	#42
Comedian2004 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: In a house in Saint Cloud, Florida. Posts: 7,085	I should have been a baseball detective (No wise cracks) __________________ Like BLUES? Visit www.smokestacklightnin.com, you will LOVE it! New show every Monday!! New Blues HOF![/COLOR][/FONT]

08-22-2007, 08:05 PM	#44
Dagrims Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,827	Comedian, nice article. I wonder if Shore got credit for the shutout in 1917 when he replaced Ruth after the leadoff batter reached base on four consecutive balls (Ruth was ejected for arguing), the runner was thrown out stealing, and then Shore retired the next 26 batters in a row. __________________ "Read books, get brain."

08-23-2007, 12:36 PM	#47
zekester91 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,122	Littleton got a save yesterday in a 30 to 3 blow out.... __________________ Bobby Bowden must have a hell of a recruiting pitch, "Son if you come on down to Tallahasee, you just might be able to watch me die during practice!" The road was closed while the Hartford Police Department's bomb squad came and blew up the chicken.

08-22-2007, 03:12 PM	#41
Doctor No Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 99	I get the three-inning saves all the time in OOTP - through a combination of decisions and happenstance, I currently have eight major-league quality starting pitchers, and my relief pitchers are terrible. So I've been limiting my starters to 100 pitches or so and letting my less-good starters finish things. And I'm finally competing for a division title in my eleventh season of the league.

08-22-2007, 04:43 PM	#43
Assos All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Just on the fair side of the foul pole! Posts: 1,772	Now that is interesting and amazing that you could find that.

08-22-2007, 10:02 PM	#45
Assos All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Just on the fair side of the foul pole! Posts: 1,772	Hark, another worthless save: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas..._boxscore.html

08-23-2007, 02:23 PM	#48
Assos All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Just on the fair side of the foul pole! Posts: 1,772	You, or I, or Jabba the Hutt could have gotten the save with that lead.

08-23-2007, 03:51 PM	#51
Mattymo All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: Colchester, CT Posts: 1,448	Maybe not Jabba the hut, but I'm sure Joba "the hut" Chamberlain could have gotten the save.

08-23-2007, 04:06 PM	#52
Assos All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Just on the fair side of the foul pole! Posts: 1,772	Boomer! You play OTTP! Exactly my point, Jaba can not get a major league hitter out, and neither could the Baltimore pitching staff.