Another wrestling death "coincidence"

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Purely from a shareholders' point of view, sacrificing the future for today's profit might be the best idea when you weight the benefits. Shareholders aren't long term stakeholders.

That is good in any business because of the time value of money. It is a good premise for all investors.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

Even if they determine that steroids were the cause of his death, it won't stop the circle of stupidity that surrounds steroid users and it won't stop the people who condone their illicit use from being knuckleheads.

If they determine steroids were the cause of death, it would be the first time that's happened to an athlete that I'm aware of.

Maybe he was taking meth or ephedra.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

If they determine steroids were the cause of death, it would be the first time that's happened to an athlete that I'm aware of.

Maybe he was taking meth or ephedra.

A bit misleading. Like saying that the HIV virus hasnt killed anyone (it hasn't; its the opportunistic infections that kill.)

[APujols5]

Originally Posted by TC Dale

I have been anti WWE for a while.

Ever since WCW got bought out, and Vince nabbed all the AWA stuff, and opened up his WWE 24/7 and then made it so you couldn't see any classic stuff unless they have it on there for the month.

What we are watching today isn't quality wrestling, even for a scripted sport.

Tag teams are mostly non-existent, title belts mean nothing, (they change almost weekly or ignored and vacated/retired), cruiserweights, and technical wrestlers are for the most part ignored, storylines are nothing now, no one gets a solid buildup any more, and that is because frankly there are too many wrestlers and not enough stars.

No one can get great heat or great face pop because the feuds and story lines are few or non-existent. If Vince was savvy, he would give a 1/3 of the company assets to Shane, tell him he can do with it what he wants, and that he is on his own. Spin off the ECW and WCW to their own fiefdoms, and let them live or die based on whether they bring a quality product.

I believe if ECW had been left alone and they had scripted it to the "old" fed standards, you would see a stronger EC Dub right now. Same with the WCW. Spin them off, take some wrestlers that don't get the air or TV time, develop some identity, and grow the product.

Removing a third of the wrestlers and support staff would help WWE immensley and maybe we would see a better product on the screen.

Does anyone think that within 4 or 5 years we will see anyone really new step up to the WWE main event? They are using older guys now, and they aren't developing the new ones they have.

So a wrestling channel WWE 24/7 sounds like a good idea right?

But as always, WWE decides what they put on and not... that is their business decision to make, but, now I can only describe to the kids about the AWA, and the Von Erichs federation, the Georgia Championship Wrestling, Florida Championship Wrestling, the one that Dick the Bruiser had running out of Indianapolis for years, etc. I can't "show" them any of the classic wrestlers, feuds, tag teams, interviews etc...nothing.

And that the WWE wasn't the only place some of these guys became legends. Rick Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Steamboat, Briscoes, Sgt Slaugher, Von Erichs, Freebirds, MWC, man I could type forever. Without being able to watch old feds shows and PPV's you don't get to see how far wrestling has came (or fallen in your opinion whatever it might be.) I would love to see some Canadien federations, Mexican wrestlers, and Japan touring companies, but I am left with whatever crap the WWE puts up for this month.

So yeah I think the WWE needs to clean house, and how they do business, (I mean they make tons of money... I know, but are they sacrificing the future for today' profits?)

If Congress takes a closer look at WWE and their practices, it will be the wrestlers, fans, and the shareholders that will suffer the most. Because there will be some backlash with the steroids issue, (and yes this isn't the first time for Vince and the WWE to have problems legally) it may not affect their financial bottom line, only the product quality bottom line, and they can't get much worse than they are right now.

Fan of the WWE or not, agreeing with any article that tries to place blame for Adam's death on the WWe and Vince is basically idiotic. That would be like me dying of say a drug overdose, and everyone blaming Best Buy because I worked there during college. That's what I meant by the Anti WWE Bandwagon. I wasn't talking about their product at all. Like the product or not, but to place blame on them for deaths of wrestlers that haven't been around the company in years is completely idiotic.

[darkenigma510]

It was hilarious to watch Nancy Grace last night and have them talking about the WWE and Bryan Adams and they kept showing clips of WCW.

Nice journalism there guys.

[AnotherAlias]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

If they determine steroids were the cause of death, it would be the first time that's happened to an athlete that I'm aware of.

Maybe he was taking meth or ephedra.

I did the work for you, thank me after you read these.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/...eroids-in-wor/

http://www.athletesagainststeroids.o...iddeaths.shtml

There are probably more examples out there somewhere, but I'm not into beating dead horses.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by darkenigma510

It was hilarious to watch Nancy Grace last night and have them talking about the WWE and Bryan Adams and they kept showing clips of WCW.

Nice journalism there guys.

Yeah, that's Nancy Grace journalism for you. Do as little work as possible while making people guilty until proven innocent.

[TC Dale]

Originally Posted by APujols5

Fan of the WWE or not, agreeing with any article that tries to place blame for Adam's death on the WWe and Vince is basically idiotic. That would be like me dying of say a drug overdose, and everyone blaming Best Buy because I worked there during college. That's what I meant by the Anti WWE Bandwagon. I wasn't talking about their product at all. Like the product or not, but to place blame on them for deaths of wrestlers that haven't been around the company in years is completely idiotic.

Whether it is idiotic or not is up to the participants of course, but when you are the company leader, and you set the standards, you are a lightning rod for all things, good or bad.

Of course the WWE is the defacto standard. Then they are also the first organization that the government entities will go after. They will blame all these deaths on the WWE, fair or not.

Just because the guys continued their stupid choices after they left the WWE, isn't what the Congress is worried about. They want a scapegoat, and they have a former accused organization back in the limelight again for the same issues that they were exonerated for.

Is it fair that WWE is being hammered for other wrestlers bad choices? No.

But it is undeniable that the wrestlers learned what would be marketable at the industry leader, and what would keep them able to survive the exhausting schedules that the E made the wrestlers go through, both legal and illegal.

So in a UNFAIR convoluted, roundabout way, yes the WWE is responsible.

Sorry Jason, I know you don't think it is fair, but, fair isn't what made the WWE make the choices they did. They wanted to be king of the hill, and they wanted to crush everyone leaving them alone at the top. Some of those choices were not very intelligent, and now fair or not, they are having to face them.

Furthermore, I am looking at it from the government POV as well. They want someone to pay for the problems that steroids are causing, and they have Vince and the WWE back in the limelight, and this time they aren't going to let him go as easily.


Idiotic? Yeah. Vince and the WWE aren't the only organization that had these issues. But he is the only game in town, and that means he gets all the attention. If this was fair, they would bring in the WCW, AWA, and other regional organizations to answer the charges alongside Vinne Mac.

Will it happen? Probably not, because it is IDIOTIC. And that is the problem!

[APujols5]

TC, it shouldn't matter if the WWE was THE only wrestling company in North America. You aren't responsible for things that people outside of your control, in this instance, your own company do.

So using my example, you would then say it would be ok for Best Buy to be held responsible if I was to kill myself? It's the same set of circumstances. It's been years since I worked for them.
Just like it's been years since Adams worked for the WWE.

Also on a personal note, Don't use my name off handed like that like you are my friend. I don't like you one bit and never will.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

I did the work for you, thank me after you read these.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/...eroids-in-wor/

http://www.athletesagainststeroids.o...iddeaths.shtml

There are probably more examples out there somewhere, but I'm not into beating dead horses.

Steroids don't really kill these people directly. Steroids kill them by enabling them to overstretch themselves. Steroids play as an enabler like guns.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

I did the work for you, thank me after you read these.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/...eroids-in-wor/

http://www.athletesagainststeroids.o...iddeaths.shtml

There are probably more examples out there somewhere, but I'm not into beating dead horses.

I clicked on one of the links, saw a quote from Lyle Alzado, and immediately closed the tab. I can't take anyone seriously who uses Alzado as an example of steroids killing someone, when his own doctors said they had nothing to do with his illness.

I do find the obits of 300-400lbs athletes dying amusing tho, if only for the "OMG IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE STEROID USE" and not the "WHAT THE HELL, THE DUDE WAS 350LBS" factor.

I don't think people should take anabolic steroids outside the care of a doctor or a trainer who know how to administer them, and I'm sure the steroids themselves could be toxic in extreme doses (like every other chemical you can put into your body, including food). I also don't think people should drive cars into stationary objects at 80mph either, but I'm not about to blame cars for deaths that result from it.

[Skipaway]

More importantly, a lot of athletes are dying young, especially those with heavy build, regardless of if they are using whatever substance.

As I said, NFL players that can be categorized as obese, which would include a lot of linemen these days, often die before they hit 50.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

I clicked on one of the links, saw a quote from Lyle Alzado, and immediately closed the tab. I can't take anyone seriously who uses Alzado as an example of steroids killing someone, when his own doctors said they had nothing to do with his illness.

The second link is basically a list of dead people who had or might have used steroids. It got little to do with steroids as cause of death.

[AnotherAlias]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

I clicked on one of the links, saw a quote from Lyle Alzado, and immediately closed the tab. I can't take anyone seriously who uses Alzado as an example of steroids killing someone, when his own doctors said they had nothing to do with his illness.

So, you ignored the other link with a number of other examples?

I can't take any doctor seriously that would say anabolic steroids are not harmful and won't cause someone's death if they are abused.

[AnotherAlias]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

The second link is basically a list of dead people who had or might have used steroids. It got little to do with steroids as cause of death.

It got everything to do with steroids as a suspect/contributor to cause of death.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by APujols5

Also on a personal note, Don't use my name off handed like that like you are my friend. I don't like you one bit and never will.

Yeesh

[APujols5]

I coulda said how I really feel about him, but I don't feel like being banned. So I thought that would get the same vibe across

[<Pion>]

Do you do that with all people that call you by name that you don't like?

[APujols5]

Calling someone by their first name has an air of familiarity and/or friendship. It's just not polite to go around calling random people by their first name.

[Raderick]

Originally Posted by APujols5

Fan of the WWE or not, agreeing with any article that tries to place blame for Adam's death on the WWe and Vince is basically idiotic. That would be like me dying of say a drug overdose, and everyone blaming Best Buy because I worked there during college. That's what I meant by the Anti WWE Bandwagon. I wasn't talking about their product at all. Like the product or not, but to place blame on them for deaths of wrestlers that haven't been around the company in years is completely idiotic.

But Adams was with the WWF when steroids were being taken like candy.

The crap doesn't take it's toll while you take them, it's after you take them and then add a few years is when you'll see the after-effects.