2007 New York Yankees Thread - Page 73

edrooney · 08-08-2007, 10:48 AM

I just don't understand the rationale behind pitcher ejections. It seems that either pitcher has a fair shot to get a plunking in first (unless it's at a guy's head), then this handicaps both sets of pitching staffs.

Why is it acceptable for Pitcher A to throw at a guy, but if then Pitcher B does it, Pitcher B gets ejected?

1998 Yankees · 08-08-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

I just read about last night's game. You can say what you want about Clemens, he won't let his players get plunked without making the other team pay for it.

Joba threw 2 shutout innings last night and I heard his slider was filthy. Anyone see him throw?

Sometimes, I really miss not having a life so I could watch Yankee games all the time

Monday's throw behind A-Rod should have sufficed for his "Ha!" transgression. Hitting him again yesterday was just stupid.

I refuse to be drawn into this getting excited over the latest pitcher call-up. My heart has been broken too many times recently. Let's see what Chamberlain does for the rest of the year first.

Never mind about looking at the games and having a life. It sounds like you already have a nice one going! I keep noticing your signature and would trade quite a few Yankee games to be able to say something like that myself.

1998 Yankees · 08-08-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edrooney

Why is it acceptable for Pitcher A to throw at a guy, but if then Pitcher B does it, Pitcher B gets ejected?

The umpiring crew cannot assume that the first HBP was intentional over an incident that took place weeks ago. However, they can assume that the second HBP was intentional, in retaliation for the first one that they just witnessed. You cannot always tell from the telecast, but umpires will often warn both benches after the first one that any more will result in ejections, so when it does happen again they have no choice. I can see and agree with all this; you really don't want this stuff to get out of hand.

1998 Yankees · 08-08-2007, 11:10 AM

Darn it, they did let Cairo go. I admire players like him and his departure from the team makes me sad.

edrooney · 08-08-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

The umpiring crew cannot assume that the first HBP was intentional over an incident that took place weeks ago. However, they can assume that the second HBP was intentional, in retaliation for the first one that they just witnessed. You cannot always tell from the telecast, but umpires will often warn both benches after the first one that any more will result in ejections, so when it does happen again they have no choice. I can see and agree with all this; you really don't want this stuff to get out of hand.

Well, no. I don't mind the ejections per se, but surely the umps can judge a plunking on its own merits. Given that A-Rod was thrown behind the game before, and the public knowledge of the events last time in Toronto, surely they can look at that stuff, warn the Jays before the game, and eject the Toronto pitcher as soon as he inevitably hits A-Rod.

Any subsequent beanings from either side would then, of course, be ejectable.

1998 Yankees · 08-08-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edrooney

Well, no. I don't mind the ejections per se, but surely the umps can judge a plunking on its own merits. Given that A-Rod was thrown behind the game before, and the public knowledge of the events last time in Toronto, surely they can look at that stuff, warn the Jays before the game, and eject the Toronto pitcher as soon as he inevitably hits A-Rod.

Any subsequent beanings from either side would then, of course, be ejectable.

You've got a point there. It was the same umpiring crew from the first game, so they did see the message sent to A-Rod and they could have done as you say before the start of the second game. Still, I have yet to see a game where umps threw people out over the first plunking that took place. I don't think they have the authority or precedent to warn teams like that over something that they think might happen; they rely on what they witness in the game itself and how it's been handled in the past.

CommishJoe · 08-08-2007, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Never mind about looking at the games and having a life. It sounds like you already have a nice one going! I keep noticing your signature and would trade quite a few Yankee games to be able to say something like that myself.

Just teasin' man. I appreciate the insight you bring to this thread and keeping me up to date on what's going on in the Yankees world. Being in Minnesota doesn't help much since my best source of info is newsday.com *sigh*

CommishJoe · 08-08-2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Darn it, they did let Cairo go. I admire players like him and his departure from the team makes me sad.

I still remember the play where he tripped over his own foot

However, I would agree with this sentiment. He wasn't very good, but he always had a positive attitude and gave 100% every time the Yanks asked him to do something. I'm sorry to see him go, but I am excited about Betemit.

eriqjaffe · 08-08-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edrooney

I just don't understand the rationale behind pitcher ejections.

71 MPH knuckleball = instant ejection, that's all you need to know.

CommishJoe · 08-08-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edrooney

Well, no. I don't mind the ejections per se, but surely the umps can judge a plunking on its own merits. Given that A-Rod was thrown behind the game before, and the public knowledge of the events last time in Toronto, surely they can look at that stuff, warn the Jays before the game, and eject the Toronto pitcher as soon as he inevitably hits A-Rod.

Any subsequent beanings from either side would then, of course, be ejectable.

Wow, a lot took place since I last visited

I would agree with this. The Toronto pitcher should have been tossed right away (if you're gonna toss anyone). Clemens' payback was inevitable.

darkhorse · 08-08-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Darn it, they did let Cairo go. I admire players like him and his departure from the team makes me sad.

I admire them more when they don't spend any time in the lineup at first base.

1998 Yankees · 08-08-2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

I still remember the play where he tripped over his own foot

However, I would agree with this sentiment. He wasn't very good, but he always had a positive attitude and gave 100% every time the Yanks asked him to do something. I'm sorry to see him go, but I am excited about Betemit.

My lasting memory of him will be how he came in to play 1B when Mientkiewicz went down and outplayed Phelps at his natural position. Cairo was one of those players who contributed more than his stats indicated, and I will miss him. On the other hand, Betemit did impress people and we are in this to win ballgames.

CMH · 08-08-2007, 12:06 PM

Last night was an example of why I like Clemens.

Yea, if he was wearing another uniform and did it to the Yankees I'd be upset. But, he's doing it for us now.

Moose would have never thrown at the hitter.

hayesb26 · 08-08-2007, 01:22 PM

love him or hate him, clemens surely has his teammates backs right down to the bitter end. who else would honestly plunk rios in that situation, when he has a 2-hit shutout going through six. thats why im happy to have the guy on our team.

as for joba, his stuff looks electric. we'll see how he handles the rest of the season, but i was drooling. hitting 97-98 on the gun with a real pop in that fastball, and also a nasty breaking slider. we shall see...

CMH · 08-08-2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I refuse to be drawn into this getting excited over the latest pitcher call-up. My heart has been broken too many times recently. Let's see what Chamberlain does for the rest of the year first.

You're right but difference here is Chamberlain was actually a prized minor league prospect with stuff that mostly every scout (even those in other organizations) felt was the best in the minors.

Ramirez really came out of nowhere and doesn't have Chamberlain's minor league history.

CommishJoe · 08-08-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

You're right but difference here is Chamberlain was actually a prized minor league prospect with stuff that mostly every scout (even those in other organizations) felt was the best in the minors.

Ramirez really came out of nowhere and doesn't have Chamberlain's minor league history.

So true. Joba and Hughes are in a different class than Ramirez.

FYI -- Don't worry, my Yankee avatar will be back soon enough. I got a kick out of this image and the timing was right

RchW · 08-08-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Monday's throw behind A-Rod should have sufficed for his "Ha!" transgression. Hitting him again yesterday was just stupid.

What p****d me off as a Jays fan is the way the team turtled after that. If you are going to throw at someone and possibly cause a ruckus you should be able to back it up with some good baseball. The Yankees elevated their game. The Jays caved badly.

mlyons · 08-08-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Darn it, they did let Cairo go. I admire players like him and his departure from the team makes me sad.

What, guys who aren't really good enough to be playing in the majors but stick around because people like the way they hustle on their groundouts?

1998 Yankees · 08-08-2007, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayesb26

love him or hate him, clemens surely has his teammates backs right down to the bitter end. who else would honestly plunk rios in that situation, when he has a 2-hit shutout going through six. thats why im happy to have the guy on our team.

Just a note of cynicism; he was due to come out soon. He waited until that point because he knew he was going to be tossed. Otherwise, agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

Last night was an example of why I like Clemens.

Yea, if he was wearing another uniform and did it to the Yankees I'd be upset. But, he's doing it for us now.

Moose would have never thrown at the hitter.

Definitely agree on that last point. Sometimes you gotta stand up for your buds, even if it's with only a 71 mph knuckleball!

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

What p****d me off as a Jays fan is the way the team turtled after that. If you are going to throw at someone and possibly cause a ruckus you should be able to back it up with some good baseball. The Yankees elevated their game. The Jays caved badly.

I dunno. The scores don't reflect how intense the series has been so far. Other than MR, the Jays have been hanging tough, I think. Let's see how tonight's game goes.

CommishJoe · 08-09-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I dunno. The scores don't reflect how intense the series has been so far. Other than MR, the Jays have been hanging tough, I think. Let's see how tonight's game goes.

Let's not

08-08-2007, 10:48 AM	#1441
edrooney All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 688 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I just don't understand the rationale behind pitcher ejections. It seems that either pitcher has a fair shot to get a plunking in first (unless it's at a guy's head), then this handicaps both sets of pitching staffs. Why is it acceptable for Pitcher A to throw at a guy, but if then Pitcher B does it, Pitcher B gets ejected? __________________ I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore.

08-08-2007, 11:10 AM	#1444
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	Darn it, they did let Cairo go. I admire players like him and his departure from the team makes me sad.

08-08-2007, 12:06 PM	#1453
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	Last night was an example of why I like Clemens. Yea, if he was wearing another uniform and did it to the Yankees I'd be upset. But, he's doing it for us now. Moose would have never thrown at the hitter.

08-08-2007, 01:22 PM	#1454
hayesb26 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 267	love him or hate him, clemens surely has his teammates backs right down to the bitter end. who else would honestly plunk rios in that situation, when he has a 2-hit shutout going through six. thats why im happy to have the guy on our team. as for joba, his stuff looks electric. we'll see how he handles the rest of the season, but i was drooling. hitting 97-98 on the gun with a real pop in that fastball, and also a nasty breaking slider. we shall see...