Sim results complaint (Trade thread)

Larry_Rinker · 03-11-2003, 08:40 PM

..

Let me add something to what mking55 said in his opening statement ... the first post in this thread. Re-read it if you need to because my results are along these lines .. if not worse.

I got the game the first hour it was out.

Messed with it.

Markus said he was going to patch it.

Waited.

Got the 5.01

Patched it.

Imported the Lehman Database.

Started a season in 2000. Career League.

My starting rotation included:

Kevin Brown (he was AWESOME in 2000 .. my No. 1 starter)
Randy Johnson
Greg Maddux

Two other guys that didn't totally blow.

Scott Shoenweiss
Kurt Benson

My offense was ranked FOURTH in the league.

On June 25th, I was 14 games under .500

No injuries.

No kidding.

So .. I figured .. an anomaly. It happens.

Re-started.

June 25th ...

16 games under .500

Uninstalled.

Game Over.

My only hope is GForce and his rosters.

I won't play the game again until he comes out with his next set.

Then, I'll give it ONE MORE TRY.

If totally inaccurate, FARCE results happen again after repeated tries, I will simply consider that I lost $40.00 on a game that is a complete and utter JOKE as a baseball simulator.

The way people talk here, you'd think it was the second coming of Jesus Christ.

LR

..

MannyTrillo · 03-11-2003, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Larry_Rinker
..

My starting rotation included:

Kevin Brown (he was AWESOME in 2000 .. my No. 1 starter)
Randy Johnson
Greg Maddux

..

Lemme guess... all three of these guys started to stink almost right away. The problem is, they are all older guys, and when OOTP imports the players it doesn't "know who they are." Very few players are able to sustain great performance into their late 30's and early 40's, and as in real life, the vast majority will severely tank around this age. Brown, Maddux, and Johnson are rarities in that regard...

Larry_Rinker · 03-12-2003, 12:34 AM

..

Quote:

Originally posted by MannyTrillo
Lemme guess... all three of these guys started to stink almost right away. The problem is, they are all older guys, and when OOTP imports the players it doesn't "know who they are." Very few players are able to sustain great performance into their late 30's and early 40's, and as in real life, the vast majority will severely tank around this age. Brown, Maddux, and Johnson are rarities in that regard...

If you read the post, you would see that it was the 2000 season.

Maddux was 34

Brown was 35

Johnson 36

Their ratings were through the roof for starting pitchers.

My offense was fourth in the league.

"OOTP imports the players but it doesn't "know who they are"

What kind of statement is that?

They know who they are through their ratings of pitching. Are you insinuating that a computer program can weigh a personality in the way that a human mind, bombarded with media and commercialism, can determine worth and value? I think your tin foil hat is a little tight there, son.

You have taken the position of defending these results I have reported and defended your purchase, and thereby threading the validation of yourself, almost exactly like the blind eyes of Catholic worshipers.

There's problems all over the place, there's bugs being reported everywhere, there's fundamental cracks in the logic of the programming.

But you're caught.

Caught in the mass fervor that this board and others create about OOTP. You can't see the reality, or don't want to see it, because it exposes something about yourself that you wish to keep denying. You crave the acceptance of this community and seek a kind turning from the developer because it feels so very important to you. You need it to be right.

But it ain't right. No matter how many people say it. No matter how many times they say it.

Step back, turn on a few lights so that you might see more clearly, then look at the game again. By yourself, in your own judgement, with your personal honesty only to yourself as a balance.

Don't sell yourself short.

You're worth more.

You deserve more.

LR

..

matskralc · 03-12-2003, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Larry_Rinker
..

Imported the Lehman Database.

Started a season in 2000. Career League.

My starting rotation included:

Kevin Brown (he was AWESOME in 2000 .. my No. 1 starter)
Randy Johnson
Greg Maddux

Two other guys that didn't totally blow.

Scott Shoenweiss
Kurt Benson

My offense was ranked FOURTH in the league.

On June 25th, I was 14 games under .500

No injuries.

No kidding.

So .. I figured .. an anomaly. It happens.

Re-started.

June 25th ...

16 games under .500

What kind of bullpen did you have?

What were you starters' stats?

Did they take ratings hits during the year? (Given their ages, this does seem likely)

You ever try finishing out a season?

I ask these questions because I've run across similar situations before. I amassed one of the better offenses in the league, but would seriously struggle early on in the year. I'd look at the stats, and my starters would have decent ERA/WHIPs, but my bullpen sucked. Would be one of the worst in the league, and the guys wouldn't be rated all that good, because in the course of putting together a great offense and starting rotation, my bullpen would get left behind.

But then I'd shore up my bullpen by dealing a few (usually starting pitching) prospects and backup players I didn't need, and finish out the year making a run at a playoff spot.

Sometimes, I've seen this happen to me with no explanation at all. June rolls around and I'm 10, 12 games under .500, with what should be a kickass team. But I go and finish the year, and wind up .500 or better.

WarFisch · 03-12-2003, 01:08 AM

Wow, get some sleep, man. That was a little over the top.

The truth is this game has always been more fun for me using fictional players for this very reason. We have too many preconceived notions about how the "real" players should perform. I must say though, that I have never seen a huge difference between the real players and the ones in the game. In my experience, playing since v2, the stats seem to come up reasonably accurate.

I am sorry if you have had a bad experience with this game, but if everything comes out exactly as you expect it to, it wouldn't really be very much fun, would it?

I am not trying to defend the game because the results you got seem a little strange, but it's a game. That is the challenge of being a manager. If the players start to suck it might be time to make some changes. Your not doing it was strictly based on your notions of what these players SHOULD do, not what they were actually doing.

Also, I think I am mature enough to make my own judgements about the "mass fervor" here, and I have never really thought about being accepted into the community, I just come here for the info and ideas. Thanks for the patronizing comments directed at the community, though.

MannyTrillo · 03-12-2003, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Larry_Rinker
..

If you read the post, you would see that it was the 2000 season.

Maddux was 34

Brown was 35

Johnson 36

Their ratings were through the roof for starting pitchers.

My offense was fourth in the league.

"OOTP imports the players but it doesn't "know who they are"

What kind of statement is that?

They know who they are through their ratings of pitching. Are you insinuating that a computer program can weigh a personality in the way that a human mind, bombarded with media and commercialism, can determine worth and value? I think your tin foil hat is a little tight there, son.

You have taken the position of defending these results I have reported and defended your purchase, and thereby threading the validation of yourself, almost exactly like the blind eyes of Catholic worshipers.

There's problems all over the place, there's bugs being reported everywhere, there's fundamental cracks in the logic of the programming.

But you're caught.

Caught in the mass fervor that this board and others create about OOTP. You can't see the reality, or don't want to see it, because it exposes something about yourself that you wish to keep denying. You crave the acceptance of this community and seek a kind turning from the developer because it feels so very important to you. You need it to be right.

But it ain't right. No matter how many people say it. No matter how many times they say it.

Step back, turn on a few lights so that you might see more clearly, then look at the game again. By yourself, in your own judgement, with your personal honesty only to yourself as a balance.

Don't sell yourself short.

You're worth more.

You deserve more.

LR

..

What you don't seem to realize is that the player development algorithms in OOTP5 are The Truth... because they came from Markus, who is The Developer. One of the things that all of us here on the board adhere to is "accept no false player development algorithms." Apparently you lack the moral fiber to do the same. Do you think that the player development algorithms followed by MLB are somehow more "real" than those that have been ordained by Markus? If so, you have been led astray, and need to do some serious soul-searching... or you'll end up burning in Tampa Bay like the rest of the infidels.

Le Grande Orange · 03-12-2003, 05:24 AM

Hmmm, if I understand this correctly, you are upset because the team you thought was going to be great did not do so great?

Gee, that's just like the real world! Teams underperform all the time (and sometimes they overperform). Just look at all the preseason predictions that get made about where teams will finish; predictions made by usually quite knowledgeable folks.

Any many times their predictions are completely at odd with what actually happens.

So just because your powerhouse team ended up tanking is not unrealistic, by itself. If there are specific player related issues here in terms of talent or development, then by all means post up specific examples of where you think things are going wrong.

If there are problems in the game they can't be fixed by vague or generalized complaints. Specific examples are needed...

Steve Kuffrey · 03-12-2003, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixto
Enough trolling. Nobody minds if you prefer DMB.

Ouch, played it for years.....now bores me to tears almost. Very accurate, but you can pretty much tell w/i certain parameters how your players will perform for your league before you even play. What's the challenge there?

Henry · 03-12-2003, 09:42 AM

To all,

No use defending. If he's happy with DMB then he certainly should continue playing it. OOTP and what it does is not for everyone - nor can some understand the depth and purpose of such a simulation. Personally, I'll focus my efforts on making OOTP even better than it already is - even if others feel they have a better solution

I hope Larry continues to enjoy DMB - I really do.

Henry

Scott Vibert · 03-12-2003, 10:16 AM

Rather than inspiring further flame wars this thread will be closed.

03-11-2003, 08:40 PM	#1
Larry_Rinker Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4	.. Let me add something to what mking55 said in his opening statement ... the first post in this thread. Re-read it if you need to because my results are along these lines .. if not worse. I got the game the first hour it was out. Messed with it. Markus said he was going to patch it. Waited. Got the 5.01 Patched it. Imported the Lehman Database. Started a season in 2000. Career League. My starting rotation included: Kevin Brown (he was AWESOME in 2000 .. my No. 1 starter) Randy Johnson Greg Maddux Two other guys that didn't totally blow. Scott Shoenweiss Kurt Benson My offense was ranked FOURTH in the league. On June 25th, I was 14 games under .500 No injuries. No kidding. So .. I figured .. an anomaly. It happens. Re-started. June 25th ... 16 games under .500 Uninstalled. Game Over. My only hope is GForce and his rosters. I won't play the game again until he comes out with his next set. Then, I'll give it ONE MORE TRY. If totally inaccurate, FARCE results happen again after repeated tries, I will simply consider that I lost $40.00 on a game that is a complete and utter JOKE as a baseball simulator. The way people talk here, you'd think it was the second coming of Jesus Christ. LR ..

03-12-2003, 01:08 AM	#5
WarFisch Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 150	Wow, get some sleep, man. That was a little over the top. The truth is this game has always been more fun for me using fictional players for this very reason. We have too many preconceived notions about how the "real" players should perform. I must say though, that I have never seen a huge difference between the real players and the ones in the game. In my experience, playing since v2, the stats seem to come up reasonably accurate. I am sorry if you have had a bad experience with this game, but if everything comes out exactly as you expect it to, it wouldn't really be very much fun, would it? I am not trying to defend the game because the results you got seem a little strange, but it's a game. That is the challenge of being a manager. If the players start to suck it might be time to make some changes. Your not doing it was strictly based on your notions of what these players SHOULD do, not what they were actually doing. Also, I think I am mature enough to make my own judgements about the "mass fervor" here, and I have never really thought about being accepted into the community, I just come here for the info and ideas. Thanks for the patronizing comments directed at the community, though.

03-12-2003, 05:24 AM	#7
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,642	Hmmm, if I understand this correctly, you are upset because the team you thought was going to be great did not do so great? Gee, that's just like the real world! Teams underperform all the time (and sometimes they overperform). Just look at all the preseason predictions that get made about where teams will finish; predictions made by usually quite knowledgeable folks. Any many times their predictions are completely at odd with what actually happens. So just because your powerhouse team ended up tanking is not unrealistic, by itself. If there are specific player related issues here in terms of talent or development, then by all means post up specific examples of where you think things are going wrong. If there are problems in the game they can't be fixed by vague or generalized complaints. Specific examples are needed...

03-12-2003, 09:42 AM	#9
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	To all, No use defending. If he's happy with DMB then he certainly should continue playing it. OOTP and what it does is not for everyone - nor can some understand the depth and purpose of such a simulation. Personally, I'll focus my efforts on making OOTP even better than it already is - even if others feel they have a better solution I hope Larry continues to enjoy DMB - I really do. Henry

03-12-2003, 10:16 AM	#10
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,249	Rather than inspiring further flame wars this thread will be closed.