2007 New York Yankees Thread

[edrooney]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

You seem to be having trouble with this concept again, mikev, although I took the time to clearly explain it to you. Here's a refresher course:


Alex Rodriguez is currently qualifying on the fourth bullet only, and only in the statistics part. As far as the fifth, he is currently being rewarded by the fans for his performance. Concerning true popularity, I would venture to guess that even Bernie Williams, the guy whom I tried to honor with the initial post in this thread (to which your tactless question was the very first reply), would easily trounce Rodriguez in a poll even though he's no longer with the team. Do you get it now, or are you still stuck on "Best Player = True Yankee"?

Forgive me for getting involved, but 'True Yankee' is just one of those phrases that bristles occasionally.

You could take your explanation of what a True Yankee is, replace the word Yankee with any other organisation name (Red, Ranger, Dodger etc.), and it means the same thing to fans of those teams. It does, though, seem to get used almost exclusively by the Yankee-loving media as signifying something more when it applies to Yankees.

Also, it's a little unfair to players who come to your organisation through trade or FA, produce a very high level of performance, and then don't get the hallowed term applied to them, just because they didn't play at Rochester or wherever.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

I think the point is that "True Yankee" is a dumb media creation.

Um, not really Luis. I believe in it, so do my friends. And when you think about it, it's not just about New York or the Yankees. It's about being loyal and respectful of team tradition, about showing sportsmanship, about being a good teammate. These things can be applied to any team anywhere, and be admired by their fans. Why don't people talk about what it means to be True Red Sox or True Athletics?

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by edrooney

You could take your explanation of what a True Yankee is, replace the word Yankee with any other organisation name (Red, Ranger, Dodger etc.), and it means the same thing to fans of those teams.

ed, you and I were thinking the same thing at the same time at this point (see above).

[Luis_Rivera]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Why don't people talk about what it means to be True Red Sox or True Athletics?

Because the Yankees' history gave the media the proper ammo to coin that term.

[Luis_Rivera]

Don't get me wrong or anything... I mean, it's fine for fans to latch on to whatever terminology they want for their teams. I just can't stand the way it gets thrown around by the media to put down guys like Giambi and ARod... as well as claim that the reason they haven't won a WS in the last 7 years or whatever is because they lack the "true Yankees". It's a bunch of media bull****.

[1998 Yankees]

What, the Red Sox and the Athletics (though going back to Philadelphia, then KC, maybe that's the problem with them) don't have long histories and team traditions?

[Luis_Rivera]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

What, the Red Sox and the Athletics (though going back to Philadelphia, then KC, maybe that's the problem with them) don't have long histories and team traditions?

No, they have long histories and traditions, but New York being New York, great players throughout their history aren't just great players... Mantle, Ruth, DiMaggio - they're all pop culture icons.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

Don't get me wrong or anything... I mean, it's fine for fans to latch on to whatever terminology they want for their teams. I just can't stand the way it gets thrown around by the media to put down guys like Giambi and ARod... as well as claim that the reason they haven't won a WS in the last 7 years or whatever is because they lack the "true Yankees". It's a bunch of media bull****.

Well, we can form an alliance on the anti-media viewpoint. Just be aware that, as in anything else they deal with, they are reflecting what the fans believe and want to hear. Or else they would be out of business.

In this case, there are Yankee fans who cherish the concept of True Yankee, know exactly what it means and who deserves the title (with some debate of course) and don't need no stinkin' newspapers or talking ESPN heads to tell 'em so.

By the way, I consider Carl Yastrzemski and Carlton Fisk to be True Red Sox. I'm sure you have more recent candidates of your own.

[Luis_Rivera]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Just be aware that, as in anything else they deal with, they are reflecting what the fans believe and want to hear.

Ohhhhh TRUST ME, homie... I realize. In fact, this is the essence of my disdain for mainstream sports media. It's entertainment masquerading as analysis. People buy into the conventional wisdom and ignorance is perpetuated. This is why I get so easily agitated... illogical thinking is my greatest pet peeve, and really the only thing that sets me off. ESPECIALLY when said illogical thinking is just fashioning ones beliefs according to the conventional wisdom, as is the popular thing to do when it comes to sports.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

Ohhhhh TRUST ME, homie... I realize. In fact, this is the essence of my disdain for mainstream sports media. It's entertainment masquerading as analysis. People buy into the conventional wisdom and ignorance is perpetuated. This is why I get so easily agitated... illogical thinking is my greatest pet peeve, and really the only thing that sets me off. ESPECIALLY when said illogical thinking is just fashioning ones beliefs according to the conventional wisdom, as is the popular thing to do when it comes to sports.

Well, in this case the illogical thinking is about something good and, in my case at least, it's not meant to be condescending to others but supportive of what I look for in sport and in life. Besides, rooting for a team often borders on or crosses over to love, a truly illogical thing.

[edrooney]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Well, in this case the illogical thinking is about something good and, in my case at least, it's not meant to be condescending to others but supportive of what I look for in sport and in life. Besides, rooting for a team often borders on or crosses over to love, a truly illogical thing.

I think the reason that a lot of people, including myself, dislike this specific term and the way it is used (primarily, but not solely, by the media) is that it is not used 'as something good' but rather a stick to attack people with.

Sure, Jeter, Bernie Williams, Scott Brosius are all remembered fondly. But the media tends to roll out the expression whenever they want to bash players (Giambi, Choke-Rod, Sheff etc.) who don't fit in to their stereotypical sepia-tinted view as to how players ought to be. Even when those players often play their hearts out for the Yanks, and are pretty darn good.

[Luis_Rivera]

Originally Posted by edrooney

Sure, Jeter, Bernie Williams, Scott Brosius are all remembered fondly. But the media tends to roll out the expression whenever they want to bash players (Giambi, Choke-Rod, Sheff etc.) who don't fit in to their stereotypical sepia-tinted view as to how players ought to be. Even when those players often play their hearts out for the Yanks, and are pretty darn good.

Corrrrrrrrrrrect!

[Skipaway]

Generally media beautified some players more than others anyway, therefore the true whatever is generally an illusion. Local writers often adopt pet projects and prop up certain players just to write their unique stories, and players that are friendly toward the media generally got portraited better.

[CommishJoe]

I'd consider Lou Piniella and Paul O'Neill "true Yankees" even though neither came through the system. I'd also consider Carl Yaz and Jim Rice "true Red Sox" and George Brett a "true Royal". Sure, the Yankees have a rich history filled with great players, so the bar tends to be set a bit higher by most for the Yankees. And, of course, with the Yanks being the center of media attention, you hear about it the most. But, I would think it would fit for any team.

[darkenigma510]

How about Carl Pavano or Jered Wright? Are they True Yankees?

[Skipaway]

http://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/wiki/index.php/True_Yankee

[CommishJoe]

Originally Posted by darkenigma510

How about Carl Pavano or Jered Wright? Are they True Yankees?

umm, no.

[silvam14]

Do you think Bernie Federko is a "true Blue"?

[thomamon]

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

I think the point is that "True Yankee" is a dumb media creation.

Ignorance, don't even get me started. Anyone who doens't know what a true Yankee is, is not a true baseball fan. EOS

[CommishJoe]

Yanks cut their deficit in the AL East in half over 2 weeks. All I can say is WOW!

I thought this series would be a decent litmus test for this team since the D-Backs have been a good team this year. Sweeping PIT was one thing. Sweeping the D-Backs is another.

It was nice to see Pettitte FINALLY get some run support. The guy has been lights out this year and never seems to get enough support to get the W.