Rule 5 Draft weirdness

ctorg · 06-04-2007, 09:28 AM

So, when a player is chosen in the Rule 5 draft, they supposedly have to spend the whole season on the active roster or DL. However, I have noticed numerous Rule 5 picks ending up in the minors. In fact, if a guy is injured when he is chosen in the Rule 5 draft, he goes right to AAA - not the DL.

Has anyone else noticed this?

injury log · 06-04-2007, 09:58 AM

Yes, I've noticed the same thing; rule 5 selections should go to dfa (as they did in 2006), not to the minors. When AI teams pick rule 5 players, they do always seem to put them on the 25-man roster, however; I think the problem only affects human-controlled teams. I've also noticed that I can demote rule 5 selections around the trade deadline, July 31 (MLB-style fictional league), though not before, so it appears rule 5ers don't need to spend an entire season in the majors. I'm guessing rule 5 selections need about 120 service days before they can be dropped. AI teams almost always seem to demote their rule 5 selections mid-season.

EDIT- am on latest patch.

ctorg · 06-04-2007, 06:30 PM

Here's what the manual gives as the Rule 5 draft rules:

Quote:

1. A team that wants to select a player in the Rule 5 draft must have at least one spot open on its secondary roster.
2. A player selected in the Rule 5 draft must remain on the selecting team’s active roster or disabled list for the entire season.
3. A player who was drafted in the Rule 5 draft can be waived. If he is claimed, then the player must remain on the claiming team’s active roster for the remainder of the season.
4. A player selected in the Rule 5 draft can be traded. The team that receives the player must keep the player on its active roster for the remainder of the season.
5. A player selected in the Rule 5 draft must spend 90 days on the active roster. This rule prevents teams from picking players and then dumping them on the disabled list for an entire season to avoid using an active roster spot. This rule can extend into the following season if necessary.

So maybe it is enforcing numbers 1 and 5 without enforcing the others. But I do know that players who are injured and selected by the AI go immediately into AAA. That I've seen firsthand.

injury log · 06-04-2007, 07:07 PM

Now things make more sense- that 'for 90 days' explains a lot of game behaviour. I think you've identified pretty much what goes on, but there are a couple of exceptions. I'm almost positive the game enforces rules 2, 3 and 4, except that 'for the remainder of the season' is wrong; still, a rule 5 player's new team will have to keep him on the 25-man roster until the player has reached 90 days of MLB service during the year (I think the game may actually use a number higher than 90, but I'll test this). And I'm almost sure that rule 5 restrictions never carry over to a second season in OOTP; if you rule 5 select, put someone on the 60-day DL the whole year, you can do whatever you want with the player the next year. The game is certainly not enforcing item 1) either, for human teams; you can draft in the rule 5 even with a full 40-man roster.

Oddly enough, it doesn't seem that any of the five criteria in the manual actually describe precisely what happens in-game, even if some are close.

Nutlaw · 06-04-2007, 08:20 PM

I can verify that human teams with full active and 40-man rosters are still allowed to draft players in the Rule V Draft. TT 3670.

Nutlaw · 06-04-2007, 08:48 PM

I can verify that players taken in the Rule V Draft are placed on a minor league roster and do not need to be moved to the Active Roster at any point in the season in order to stay with the organization. Only once they are placed on the Active Roster are they forced to stay there. TT 3671.

Nutlaw · 06-04-2007, 09:02 PM

I can verify that players taken in the Rule V Draft can be demoted after 90 days of service, rather than being forced to remain on the Active Roster all season, as they should. TT 3672.

I believe that that covers everything. If I missed something, let me know.

ctorg · 06-05-2007, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

I can verify that players taken in the Rule V Draft can be demoted after 90 days of service, rather than being forced to remain on the Active Roster all season, as they should. TT 3672.

I believe that that covers everything. If I missed something, let me know.

Thanks.

There's also the issue that injured players selected in the Rule 5 draft go to AAA, and I don't know if the rules regarding players who are waived or traded work properly.

injury log · 06-05-2007, 09:23 AM

And finally, when an injured rule 5 selection is placed on the 60-day DL for the entire season, the 90-day service requirement does not carry over to the next season.

I am pretty sure that a traded rule 5 selection must still remain on his new team's active roster until he reaches 90 days of service time, so I think that will work if the 90-day/full season issue is fixed.

ctorg · 06-05-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

And finally, when an injured rule 5 selection is placed on the 60-day DL for the entire season, the 90-day service requirement does not carry over to the next season.

I am pretty sure that a traded rule 5 selection must still remain on his new team's active roster until he reaches 90 days of service time, so I think that will work if the 90-day/full season issue is fixed.

Yes, that's in the rules. Good catch.

Nutlaw · 06-05-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

There's also the issue that injured players selected in the Rule 5 draft go to AAA.

That should be covered in TT 3671.

Nutlaw · 06-05-2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

I don't know if the rules regarding players who are waived or traded work properly.

Can you (or someone) test that and let me know?

Nutlaw · 06-05-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

And finally, when an injured rule 5 selection is placed on the 60-day DL for the entire season, the 90-day service requirement does not carry over to the next season.

You are certain that you have seen this behavior? Earlier, you stated that you were "almost sure". I don't want to log it unless someone knows that it is actually working incorrectly. Please let me know.

injury log · 06-05-2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

You are certain that you have seen this behavior? Earlier, you stated that you were "almost sure". I don't want to log it unless someone knows that it is actually working incorrectly. Please let me know.

Nutlaw- I'm happy to test both issues next time I can run the game for a while- this will probably be two or three days from now. Will post results to this thread. If anyone wants to test sooner, please do!

injury log · 06-24-2007, 10:00 PM

I did finally verify the remaining issues from this thread-

-you can indeed put a rule 5 draftee on the 60-day DL for the entire season, then demote them to the minors before the next season, without placing them on an ML roster for the required time;

-when a rule 5 selection is subsequently traded or otherwise acquired by another team, his rule 5 status travels with him- the acquiring team can't demote him. So here things work properly;

-rule 5 selections do, in fact, occasionally go to dfa, and not directly to some level of the minors; this happens when the rule 5 selection has a ML contract.

Nutlaw · 06-25-2007, 07:16 PM

TT 3726 for the hiding players on the 60-day DL issue.

Updated TT 3671 to mention that the issue is only with players with minor league contracts.

Thanks!

injury log · 06-26-2007, 04:01 PM

Two final rule 5 things:

-the text of the standard rule 5 news message should be changed. In particular, the lines 'Players with more than 3, but fewer than 6 years...' should be changed to 'Players with more than 3 years...' (players with more than 6 years service are indeed rule 5 eligible, in real life and in OOTP- but this change was only introduced in OOTP in one of the patches, and the news message was never updated). The line beginning 'Players drafted at the age of 18 or younger...' needs an analogous change.

-a simple feature request: I'd love to receive a news message notifying me of players lost in the Rule 5, or alternatively, to have a rule 5 draft report, or to have a draft log in the Rule 5 screen, as with the amateur draft. As far as I'm aware, the only way to see who was selected is to trawl through the Transaction Logs.

Nutlaw · 06-26-2007, 07:38 PM

TT 3729 and TT 3730 respectively. No more issues in this thread, please. We're getting overloaded here.

Nutlaw · 07-05-2007, 06:42 PM

TT 3670 (Human Teams with Full Active and 40-Man Rosters Can Draft Rule V Players) has been claimed fixed for the next patch.

Nutlaw · 07-09-2007, 07:18 PM

TT 3729 (Rule V Draft Message Lists Wrong Eligibility Requirements) has been claimed fixed for the next patch.

06-04-2007, 09:28 AM	#1
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Rule 5 Draft weirdness So, when a player is chosen in the Rule 5 draft, they supposedly have to spend the whole season on the active roster or DL. However, I have noticed numerous Rule 5 picks ending up in the minors. In fact, if a guy is injured when he is chosen in the Rule 5 draft, he goes right to AAA - not the DL. Has anyone else noticed this? __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

06-04-2007, 09:58 AM	#2
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	Yes, I've noticed the same thing; rule 5 selections should go to dfa (as they did in 2006), not to the minors. When AI teams pick rule 5 players, they do always seem to put them on the 25-man roster, however; I think the problem only affects human-controlled teams. I've also noticed that I can demote rule 5 selections around the trade deadline, July 31 (MLB-style fictional league), though not before, so it appears rule 5ers don't need to spend an entire season in the majors. I'm guessing rule 5 selections need about 120 service days before they can be dropped. AI teams almost always seem to demote their rule 5 selections mid-season. EDIT- am on latest patch. Last edited by injury log; 06-04-2007 at 10:10 AM.

06-05-2007, 09:23 AM	#9
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	And finally, when an injured rule 5 selection is placed on the 60-day DL for the entire season, the 90-day service requirement does not carry over to the next season. I am pretty sure that a traded rule 5 selection must still remain on his new team's active roster until he reaches 90 days of service time, so I think that will work if the 90-day/full season issue is fixed. Last edited by injury log; 06-05-2007 at 09:25 AM. Reason: clarity

06-04-2007, 07:07 PM	#4
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	Now things make more sense- that 'for 90 days' explains a lot of game behaviour. I think you've identified pretty much what goes on, but there are a couple of exceptions. I'm almost positive the game enforces rules 2, 3 and 4, except that 'for the remainder of the season' is wrong; still, a rule 5 player's new team will have to keep him on the 25-man roster until the player has reached 90 days of MLB service during the year (I think the game may actually use a number higher than 90, but I'll test this). And I'm almost sure that rule 5 restrictions never carry over to a second season in OOTP; if you rule 5 select, put someone on the 60-day DL the whole year, you can do whatever you want with the player the next year. The game is certainly not enforcing item 1) either, for human teams; you can draft in the rule 5 even with a full 40-man roster. Oddly enough, it doesn't seem that any of the five criteria in the manual actually describe precisely what happens in-game, even if some are close.

06-04-2007, 08:20 PM	#5
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	I can verify that human teams with full active and 40-man rosters are still allowed to draft players in the Rule V Draft. TT 3670.

06-04-2007, 08:48 PM	#6
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	I can verify that players taken in the Rule V Draft are placed on a minor league roster and do not need to be moved to the Active Roster at any point in the season in order to stay with the organization. Only once they are placed on the Active Roster are they forced to stay there. TT 3671.

06-04-2007, 09:02 PM	#7
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	I can verify that players taken in the Rule V Draft can be demoted after 90 days of service, rather than being forced to remain on the Active Roster all season, as they should. TT 3672. I believe that that covers everything. If I missed something, let me know.

06-24-2007, 10:00 PM	#15
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	I did finally verify the remaining issues from this thread- -you can indeed put a rule 5 draftee on the 60-day DL for the entire season, then demote them to the minors before the next season, without placing them on an ML roster for the required time; -when a rule 5 selection is subsequently traded or otherwise acquired by another team, his rule 5 status travels with him- the acquiring team can't demote him. So here things work properly; -rule 5 selections do, in fact, occasionally go to dfa, and not directly to some level of the minors; this happens when the rule 5 selection has a ML contract.

06-25-2007, 07:16 PM	#16
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	TT 3726 for the hiding players on the 60-day DL issue. Updated TT 3671 to mention that the issue is only with players with minor league contracts. Thanks!

06-26-2007, 04:01 PM	#17
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	Two final rule 5 things: -the text of the standard rule 5 news message should be changed. In particular, the lines 'Players with more than 3, but fewer than 6 years...' should be changed to 'Players with more than 3 years...' (players with more than 6 years service are indeed rule 5 eligible, in real life and in OOTP- but this change was only introduced in OOTP in one of the patches, and the news message was never updated). The line beginning 'Players drafted at the age of 18 or younger...' needs an analogous change. -a simple feature request: I'd love to receive a news message notifying me of players lost in the Rule 5, or alternatively, to have a rule 5 draft report, or to have a draft log in the Rule 5 screen, as with the amateur draft. As far as I'm aware, the only way to see who was selected is to trawl through the Transaction Logs.

06-26-2007, 07:38 PM	#18
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	TT 3729 and TT 3730 respectively. No more issues in this thread, please. We're getting overloaded here.

07-05-2007, 06:42 PM	#19
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	TT 3670 (Human Teams with Full Active and 40-Man Rosters Can Draft Rule V Players) has been claimed fixed for the next patch.

07-09-2007, 07:18 PM	#20
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	TT 3729 (Rule V Draft Message Lists Wrong Eligibility Requirements) has been claimed fixed for the next patch.