Time Warp HOF Ballot 1973

[Elendil]

I voted for Davis over Lett because:

1) Davis is my ancestor;
2) Lett has far better rate stats, although playing his whole career in Cleveland certainly helped inflate those HR totals, but Davis has more impressive career totals overall - he's one of only three hitters on the current HoF list to get on base over 3500 times (I voted for all of them);
3) I considered voting for Lett but had only ten votes, so he ended up being the odd man out.

[fhomess]

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

By that logic no-one from the Reds of that era would have been voted in. Just look at the predictions of the 57 and 59 World Sereis for proof of that.

That's why I said it's ONE of the the things I look at. I do believe I have voted for some of those Reds, although I would disagree with you about the contention that none of those players were guys you feared. Ted was scary good at times.

[Lee]

StellNoelLiebermanHeltonPerryStewartOrmistonJohnso nLett

[metsgeek]

Originally Posted by Lee

StellNoelLiebermanHeltonPerryStewartOrmistonJohnso nLett

...and the purpose of that was?????

[jdw]

Originally Posted by metsgeek

By "we", do you mean the voices in your head?

Other people joked about it as well.

Similar to the cracks on Mo Lutske. People probably only remember mine/Cy's. But there also were things like Matt's regular all pro snipes about how he hated Mo.

John

[jdw]

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

By that logic no-one from the Reds of that era would have been voted in. Just look at the predictions of the 57 and 59 World Sereis for proof of that.

You're talking nonsense.

Teddie McMurray was one of the 2-3 most feared players in the NL from 1953 through late 1959 (when it became clear that he'd fall off after his typical start, though no one really knew why).

Cook was also one of the most feared, in a different way. He was the best leadoff hitter in the NL in the decade, and no one else really was close to him in effectiveness (Vardy really was a pure #2 hitter not really suited for the #1 spot). Cook stole a lot, but wasn't really effective at it. What Cook was better than anyone else in the NL in that decade was in that critical combo of Getting On Base and Scoring Runs. He walked a ton. While not a great percentage base stealer, he was the probably fastest man in the NL *and* probably had the best "base running instrincts". First-to-Second, Second-to-Home, First-to-Home... he had no peers.

The Cards and Reds that Cook led off for weren't really monster power teams like the Mighty Tigers, or the Yankees when they started loading up. Those NL clubs had good power, but they also had good BA's, good BB's, and good gap skills. Cook's ability to get on base *and* run them better than anyone in the league in that era helped those clubs put more runs on the boards than they otherwise would have.

For whatever reason, it seemed like the majority of the players in the league in the 50s who had "leadoff OBP skills" tended to be slow guys with mediocre baserunning skills. Vardy was the prime example, but hardly the only one. Davis was another.

There's a reason that Cook scored so many more runs a season than Vardy did, despite Vardy being quite a bit better OBP man. We talked about it often in the era, and it was pretty evident that it wasn't the lineups. Vardy had as strong of a lineup coming up after him in PIT as Cook had in Cincy. It seemed pretty clear that Cookie had that hidden skew advantage in the engine relative to his peers.

It made him a feared player. In those WS Live SIMs, there always was talk about trying to keep Cook off the bases because he set the table for the Reds.

It's a very different type of fear, and probably not quite the type Tribe Frank was talking about. But pretty much every team wished they could have "a Cook" at the top of their order.

Average Cook season in the 50s:

.265/.398/.382/.780
143/14/7/12 H/2B/3B/HR
108/55 R/RBI & 119/36 BB/K
50/23 SB/CS

His teams in the decade won five pennants, three World Titles. When not winning the division, they finished second four times, and third the other season.


John

[fvamos]

Nunez
Cook
Lieberman
Dietrich
Stewart
Lett
Noel
Makris
Helton

[jeheinz72]

Ormiston
Cook
Dietrich
Lett
Stewart
Tjeek-Willink
Makris
Leibermann
Helton

[jdw]

Last bump.


John

[BadluckinOOTP]

Nunez
Cook
Dietrich
Lett
Noel
Stewart
Tjeenk-Willink
Makris
Lieberman
Helton

As an aside, I think this would get many more votes if this were to have a poll with it. With now 15 options per poll, splitting up the hitters and the pitchers into two seperate threads might not be a bad idea.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by BadluckinOOTP

As an aside, I think this would get many more votes if this were to have a poll with it. With now 15 options per poll, splitting up the hitters and the pitchers into two seperate threads might not be a bad idea.

Probably a good idea. I know Matt used to like the posts to see who voted, but we could just do a public poll right?

[Ankhiel]

"Grumpy" Abraham Noel
Randy Liebermann
Joe Helton

[tward13]

Not sure how it can be a poll.

Splitting it how do you keep people to 10 total votes?

Can you have a poll where people pick fewer than the allotted number?

[BadluckinOOTP]

Originally Posted by tward13

Not sure how it can be a poll.

Splitting it how do you keep people to 10 total votes?

Can you have a poll where people pick fewer than the allotted number?

I suppose you'd just have to make the poll public, and make sure people keep it to ten votes or under.

Try to make it known that if anyone votes more than 10 times they're votes won't be recognized.

Or something.

[tward13]

Originally Posted by BadluckinOOTP

I suppose you'd just have to make the poll public, and make sure people keep it to ten votes or under.

Try to make it known that if anyone votes more than 10 times they're votes won't be recognized.

Or something.

OK, but I don't see how that will change much.

[Vris]

If it turns into that, I'm not voting.

[BadluckinOOTP]

Originally Posted by Vris

If it turns into that, I'm not voting.

Why's that?

I think it would double the voting output. As sad it is, people (including me) are lazy, and when given the choice to click 10 times, or type out names. They'll click 10 times or leave the thread.

[kreitena]

Originally Posted by Vris

If it turns into that, I'm not voting.

Is that a threat? I don't get it.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by BadluckinOOTP

Why's that?

I think it would double the voting output. As sad it is, people (including me) are lazy, and when given the choice to click 10 times, or type out names. They'll click 10 times or leave the thread.

We don't really want those people voting
Some of the people who vote already from year to year should be checked for signs of brain activity

[Vris]

Originally Posted by kreitena

Is that a threat? I don't get it.

Because it's ridiculous. If you can't be bothered to spend the two minutes to write down 10 or less names, then go find something else to do.