Why would one ever argue a call?

Flasch186 · 04-08-2002, 01:32 PM

Someone please explain to me the advantages to arguing a call. Other than the aesthetically pleasing benefit of imagining yourself or manager arguing with the ref, what could one possibly gain. Would the ump possibly give you some leeway on a controversial call later in the game? Would the strike zone get bigger or smaller for your team?

Thank you

Flasch186 · 04-08-2002, 02:08 PM

someone please respond...if they know something.

Bump

CamEdwards · 04-08-2002, 02:15 PM

As far as I can tell it has absolutely no bearing on the game.

J P Falcon · 04-08-2002, 02:18 PM

There is another topic here concerning players who e mail you that they are dissatisfied for one reason or another, and it begs the question, does it really matter that the player is annoyed? So whether it's all just a cosmetic enhancement of the game or something that has actual causes and effects would be nice to know.

Draft Dodger · 04-08-2002, 02:29 PM

good question.

the optimist in me wants to say that there's a slim, slim, slim chance of overturning a call.
the pessimist in me wants to say that arguing with the umps in real life is a waste of time too.

J P Falcon · 04-08-2002, 02:45 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Draft Dodger:
good question.

the optimist in me wants to say that there's a slim, slim, slim chance of overturning a call.
the pessimist in me wants to say that arguing with the umps in real life is a waste of time too.<hr /></blockquote>Perhaps there have been a case or two when the umpires huddle together and change a call but that usually only comes into play when they are determing whether a homerun ball was fair or foul or player interference. But as far as called balls and strikes are concerned, never. Since most of the arguing in the game is due to a strike call, then it should make no difference.

grismosw · 04-08-2002, 03:31 PM

I argued a call in the bottom of the 9th my team down by 3 with 1 out after a questionable strikeout, got ejected and my team rallied to score 4 runs. Maybe it was just my poor managing keeping the team down

J P Falcon · 04-08-2002, 03:36 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by grismosw:
I argued a call in the bottom of the 9th my team down by 3 with 1 out after a questionable strikeout, got ejected and my team rallied to score 4 runs. Maybe it was just my poor managing keeping the team down

<hr /></blockquote>Or maybe you fired up your team by being thrown out..I can think of a dozen TV play by play guys (Chris Berman at the top) who would have played up that storyline to death!!

Draft Dodger · 04-08-2002, 03:44 PM

perhaps in next years game, when your manager gets ejected, he can sneak back into the game wearing glasses and a fake mustache.

J P Falcon · 04-08-2002, 03:48 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Draft Dodger:
perhaps in next years game, when your manager gets ejected, he can sneak back into the game wearing glasses and a fake mustache.<hr /></blockquote>Maybe if Bobby Valentine dressed up like Shakira no one would have noticed!

kingpinking · 04-08-2002, 03:53 PM

ok whoever doubts arguing a call in real life must not of seen the sammy sosa homer the other night. it was hit off the basket in right at wrigley originally called in play sammy stopped at first out came baylor who argued it was in the basket and came out so it was overturned to a homer upon replay it actually did hit the basket and really should of been still in play the umpires had it right the first time but because baylor came out to argue they actually gave sammy a homer.
the only time i argue a call in the game is if i am getting a butt kickin and wanna take out some frustration or if its a real close game and hoping i will see a call changed. although i am yet to see a play overturned the AI actuallly has though.

Flasch186 · 04-08-2002, 04:11 PM

So you've actually seen a computer mgr. argue a call and get it overturned?!

mh2365 · 04-08-2002, 04:21 PM

I haven't done a study or anything but it seems like after I argue a call (and not get tossed) I seem to get more close calls my way ... could just be wishful thinking though

JimboJones · 04-08-2002, 05:04 PM

My question is not whether there is any advantage to arguing a call, but how do you know when to argue a call? I mean you can't actually see the play. All you have to go by is the play-by-play description, which only tells you it was a close call. How are you supposed to know whether the ump made a bad call??

J P Falcon · 04-08-2002, 05:09 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JimboJones:
My question is not whether there is any advantage to arguing a call, but how do you know when to argue a call? I mean you can't actually see the play. All you have to go by is the play-by-play description, which only tells you it was a close call. How are you supposed to know whether the ump made a bad call??<hr /></blockquote>Sometimes during the game the play by play will indicate that the ump made a mistake and blew a call...perhaps if you see these during the game, and then you have a chance to argue, you can assume it's a bad call based on his previous patterns...maybe then, you may lessen the chance of another bad call occuring, because you argued.
Just guessing here.........

Godard · 04-08-2002, 05:21 PM

Just happened again in real life..the Mon 4/8 game between Fla and Mon. Florida had a HR overturned after an argument and a discussion.

Does OOTP4 have the fans throwing stuff onto the field? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

J P Falcon · 04-08-2002, 06:28 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Godard:
Just happened again in real life..the Mon 4/8 game between Fla and Mon. Florida had a HR overturned after an argument and a discussion.

Does OOTP4 have the fans throwing stuff onto the field? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Has anyone seen an argument over a homerun call in the game? I haven't. As I mentioned, the arguments are mostly over calls at the plate. These are never changed in reality. There are some close homerun/foul ball calls in the game so maybe an argument can be triggered. Anyone have this happen yet?

Strick9 · 04-08-2002, 06:38 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mh2365:
I haven't done a study or anything but it seems like after I argue a call (and not get tossed) I seem to get more close calls my way ... could just be wishful thinking though<hr /></blockquote>It could be wishful thinking for me, too, but I play out all my games and it seems that a few times I've argued a call I've got a questionable call turn out in my favor later in the game. If this is true then I'd say it could be a good benefit to sometimes argue the call.

kingpinking · 04-08-2002, 07:34 PM

well there is no rule set in stone of when to argue a call but i generally go by how close the game is if its a 1 run game i will argue any close plays except a walk on a 3 -1 pitch very rarely will you get thrown out of a game and what the hey there is that sim button at top if you cant stand watching the puter manage your team, if you do get kicked out.

angryelvis · 04-09-2002, 02:41 AM

I've seen the computer argue a call and get thrown out of the game. That was really odd. My only guess is that another computer in the house must have taken control for the rest of the game.

04-08-2002, 01:32 PM	#1
Flasch186 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 24	Why would one ever argue a call? Someone please explain to me the advantages to arguing a call. Other than the aesthetically pleasing benefit of imagining yourself or manager arguing with the ref, what could one possibly gain. Would the ump possibly give you some leeway on a controversial call later in the game? Would the strike zone get bigger or smaller for your team? Thank you

04-08-2002, 02:29 PM	#5
Draft Dodger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: formerly of the OTBL Posts: 4,113	good question. the optimist in me wants to say that there's a slim, slim, slim chance of overturning a call. the pessimist in me wants to say that arguing with the umps in real life is a waste of time too. __________________ Draft Dodger (Anarchy: Anything goes. The Draft Dodger viewpoint.) Sophmoric[sic] Member of the OOTP Boards (It's not OOTP; it's your computer) 15 GB Webhosting for $6.95 a month IMO we are best off abandoning that sinking ship that is Off Topic to the rats infesting it and just starting a whole new Baseball Forum from scratch.

04-08-2002, 02:45 PM	#6
J P Falcon Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 406	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Draft Dodger: <strong>good question. the optimist in me wants to say that there's a slim, slim, slim chance of overturning a call. the pessimist in me wants to say that arguing with the umps in real life is a waste of time too.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps there have been a case or two when the umpires huddle together and change a call but that usually only comes into play when they are determing whether a homerun ball was fair or foul or player interference. But as far as called balls and strikes are concerned, never. Since most of the arguing in the game is due to a strike call, then it should make no difference.

04-08-2002, 03:36 PM	#8
J P Falcon Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 406	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by grismosw: <strong>I argued a call in the bottom of the 9th my team down by 3 with 1 out after a questionable strikeout, got ejected and my team rallied to score 4 runs. Maybe it was just my poor managing keeping the team down </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Or maybe you fired up your team by being thrown out..I can think of a dozen TV play by play guys (Chris Berman at the top) who would have played up that storyline to death!!

04-08-2002, 03:44 PM	#9
Draft Dodger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: formerly of the OTBL Posts: 4,113	perhaps in next years game, when your manager gets ejected, he can sneak back into the game wearing glasses and a fake mustache. __________________ Draft Dodger (Anarchy: Anything goes. The Draft Dodger viewpoint.) Sophmoric[sic] Member of the OOTP Boards (It's not OOTP; it's your computer) 15 GB Webhosting for $6.95 a month IMO we are best off abandoning that sinking ship that is Off Topic to the rats infesting it and just starting a whole new Baseball Forum from scratch.

04-08-2002, 02:08 PM	#2
Flasch186 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 24	someone please respond...if they know something. Bump

04-08-2002, 02:15 PM	#3
CamEdwards Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 25	As far as I can tell it has absolutely no bearing on the game.

04-08-2002, 02:18 PM	#4
J P Falcon Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 406	There is another topic here concerning players who e mail you that they are dissatisfied for one reason or another, and it begs the question, does it really matter that the player is annoyed? So whether it's all just a cosmetic enhancement of the game or something that has actual causes and effects would be nice to know.

04-08-2002, 03:31 PM	#7
grismosw Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ottawa, Ohio Posts: 187	I argued a call in the bottom of the 9th my team down by 3 with 1 out after a questionable strikeout, got ejected and my team rallied to score 4 runs. Maybe it was just my poor managing keeping the team down

04-08-2002, 03:48 PM	#10
J P Falcon Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 406	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Draft Dodger: <strong>perhaps in next years game, when your manager gets ejected, he can sneak back into the game wearing glasses and a fake mustache.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe if Bobby Valentine dressed up like Shakira no one would have noticed!

04-08-2002, 03:53 PM	#11
kingpinking Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: home Posts: 50	ok whoever doubts arguing a call in real life must not of seen the sammy sosa homer the other night. it was hit off the basket in right at wrigley originally called in play sammy stopped at first out came baylor who argued it was in the basket and came out so it was overturned to a homer upon replay it actually did hit the basket and really should of been still in play the umpires had it right the first time but because baylor came out to argue they actually gave sammy a homer. the only time i argue a call in the game is if i am getting a butt kickin and wanna take out some frustration or if its a real close game and hoping i will see a call changed. although i am yet to see a play overturned the AI actuallly has though.

04-08-2002, 04:11 PM	#12
Flasch186 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 24	So you've actually seen a computer mgr. argue a call and get it overturned?!

04-08-2002, 04:21 PM	#13
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	I haven't done a study or anything but it seems like after I argue a call (and not get tossed) I seem to get more close calls my way ... could just be wishful thinking though

04-08-2002, 05:04 PM	#14
JimboJones Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 210	My question is not whether there is any advantage to arguing a call, but how do you know when to argue a call? I mean you can't actually see the play. All you have to go by is the play-by-play description, which only tells you it was a close call. How are you supposed to know whether the ump made a bad call??

04-08-2002, 05:09 PM	#15
J P Falcon Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 406	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JimboJones: <strong>My question is not whether there is any advantage to arguing a call, but how do you know when to argue a call? I mean you can't actually see the play. All you have to go by is the play-by-play description, which only tells you it was a close call. How are you supposed to know whether the ump made a bad call??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sometimes during the game the play by play will indicate that the ump made a mistake and blew a call...perhaps if you see these during the game, and then you have a chance to argue, you can assume it's a bad call based on his previous patterns...maybe then, you may lessen the chance of another bad call occuring, because you argued. Just guessing here.........

04-08-2002, 05:21 PM	#16
Godard Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 48	Just happened again in real life..the Mon 4/8 game between Fla and Mon. Florida had a HR overturned after an argument and a discussion. Does OOTP4 have the fans throwing stuff onto the field? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> __________________ David Gorgos Nick Punto!

04-08-2002, 06:28 PM	#17
J P Falcon Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 406	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Godard: <strong>Just happened again in real life..the Mon 4/8 game between Fla and Mon. Florida had a HR overturned after an argument and a discussion. Does OOTP4 have the fans throwing stuff onto the field? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Has anyone seen an argument over a homerun call in the game? I haven't. As I mentioned, the arguments are mostly over calls at the plate. These are never changed in reality. There are some close homerun/foul ball calls in the game so maybe an argument can be triggered. Anyone have this happen yet?

04-08-2002, 06:38 PM	#18
Strick9 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Nashville Posts: 83	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mh2365: <strong>I haven't done a study or anything but it seems like after I argue a call (and not get tossed) I seem to get more close calls my way ... could just be wishful thinking though</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It could be wishful thinking for me, too, but I play out all my games and it seems that a few times I've argued a call I've got a questionable call turn out in my favor later in the game. If this is true then I'd say it could be a good benefit to sometimes argue the call.

04-08-2002, 07:34 PM	#19
kingpinking Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: home Posts: 50	well there is no rule set in stone of when to argue a call but i generally go by how close the game is if its a 1 run game i will argue any close plays except a walk on a 3 -1 pitch very rarely will you get thrown out of a game and what the hey there is that sim button at top if you cant stand watching the puter manage your team, if you do get kicked out.

04-09-2002, 02:41 AM	#20
angryelvis Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 89	I've seen the computer argue a call and get thrown out of the game. That was really odd. My only guess is that another computer in the house must have taken control for the rest of the game.