The true utility player

swishbish33 · 05-26-2007, 02:04 PM

I've noticed that not a lot of guys (if any) are put into the draft with the ability to play the infield AND the outfield from the get-go. They seem to be one or the other. I like to try and develop guys who can play multiple positions, and try to turn middling hitting prospects with good fielding abilities into great bench utility guys. My question is, can you develop a guy who can play both the infield and outfield at an acceptable level at the major league level?

bp_ · 05-26-2007, 10:07 PM

The player can learn positions in the majors if he has the skills/ability to do so. It is a slow process I believe but you can speed things up if you play the person at new positions during spring training.

Curtis · 05-26-2007, 10:23 PM

Right, but in order to do so the player needs to have the minimum fielding abilities for that position. I think what swishbish is asking is whether game-created players often have those abilities.

In my very limited experience, combined infield/outfield utility guys are as rare as hen's teeth. I've had a few catcher/first basemen, and a couple outfielder/first basemen, but I don't think I've ever had an outfielder who could play second, third or short.

bp_ · 05-26-2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtis

hen's teeth

Is there even such a thing?

SDtwin · 05-26-2007, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bp_

Is there even such a thing?

That's the whole point, lol.

Curtis · 05-26-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bp_

Is there even such a thing?

They're about as common as rooster eggs.

bp_ · 05-26-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDtwin

That's the whole point, lol.

That's what I thought but I had to check just in case.

bp_ · 05-26-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtis

In my very limited experience, combined infield/outfield utility guys are as rare as hen's teeth. I've had a few catcher/first basemen, and a couple outfielder/first basemen, but I don't think I've ever had an outfielder who could play second, third or short.

IMO, any very good defensive SS should be able to learn OF positions at least a little. Some should be able to become very good there.

The real game of baseball is certainly trending to having super utility players on rosters. See Chone Figgins, Alberto Callaspo, Alfredo Amezega and to some degree lesser super utils like Pablo Ozuna, Omar Infante, Ty Wigginton, etc.

cavebutter · 05-27-2007, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bp_

The real game of baseball is certainly trending to having super utility players on rosters. See Chone Figgins, Alberto Callaspo, Alfredo Amezega and to some degree lesser super utils like Pablo Ozuna, Omar Infante, Ty Wigginton, etc.

Bill Hall, too. Very decent middle infielder now playing CF with the Brewers. As EY said on Baseball Tonight the other night, "if you can hit, they'll find a place in the field for you."

rknauber · 05-27-2007, 12:05 PM

Aubrey Huff and Albert Pujols are examples. Both can play LF in a pinch, as both have past experience with it. And I believe both have had experience playing 3b as well. And of course, 1B being thier primary position. Not utility guys, but can move around if needed.

Curtis · 05-27-2007, 02:47 PM

My personal favorite real life utility guy was John Mabry (who I think just retired). He was on my Strat-O-Matic team for six seasons, backing up left field, right field, first and third. A good fielder, decent hitter with fair speed, and he always played 'above his ratings' in limited appearances for me.

But the question still is (if I understood the thread originator), 'Do players capable of that get generated by the CPU?' Not in my experience.

swishbish33 · 05-27-2007, 05:13 PM

Part of my question was whether guys are generated like that, which seems to be no. But bp's point of MLB trending toward Super Utility guys is exactly what I like to carry on my team. I think that's my issue is that there don't seem to be enough of the 1B/OF type guys, or the guys that can play all over. It is interesting to see that a SS can be turned into an OF (even though in my experience it's not as easy to find a SS with great fielding that can hit at the MLB level consistently). At least the Bill Halls and Chone Figgins' can somewhat be replicated.

If you play a guy out of position as he is developing in the minors so that he can learn multiple positions, does it hurt his offensive development?

Thanks guys.

Curtis · 05-27-2007, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swishbish33

If you play a guy out of position as he is developing in the minors so that he can learn multiple positions, does it hurt his offensive development?

No. It might hurt his relative rating, or rating by position, meaning that someone rated 40 OVR as a shortstop might only be a 30 OVR as a left fielder because the average left fielder hits much better than the average shortstop. It should have no effect on his absolute ratings, though.

I routinely crosstrain my 2B/3B/SS infielders, and also most of my outfielders, just so I'll have greater flexibility in where to play them, less restriction in my platooning and greater ability to compensate for injuries and fatigue.

Long_Long_Name · 05-27-2007, 11:52 PM

Didn't Carlos Delgado start off his career as a catcher, before moving to the outfield and eventually settling at 1B?

What I don't understand is why there is a dramatic cleavage in abilities betwen infielders and outfielders. IRL they do not correlate perfectly, but I expect my RF with a 9/10 arm to have the same kind of arm in the infield - and I expect my gold glove shortstop to cover a little bit of ground in the outfield too. It doesn't seem to be the case, it's not only a case of players being generated without really being fit for multiple positions to start with that annoys me than the inability for them to be trained to do so, which I find quite unrealistic.

SDtwin · 05-28-2007, 12:38 AM

I'll add my two cents and say that the game should allow more leeway with switching between infield and outfield. It's good to have separate ratings for both, but there certainly should be players capable of playing both at a decent-good level. or even the corner OF spots and then some IF. And it bugs me when a player has a great IF arm and a crappy OF. it should at least be average for the OF. Same with catchers.

Ok. Done ranting.

05-26-2007, 02:04 PM	#1
swishbish33 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 117	The true utility player I've noticed that not a lot of guys (if any) are put into the draft with the ability to play the infield AND the outfield from the get-go. They seem to be one or the other. I like to try and develop guys who can play multiple positions, and try to turn middling hitting prospects with good fielding abilities into great bench utility guys. My question is, can you develop a guy who can play both the infield and outfield at an acceptable level at the major league level?

05-26-2007, 10:07 PM	#2
bp_ Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 2,804	The player can learn positions in the majors if he has the skills/ability to do so. It is a slow process I believe but you can speed things up if you play the person at new positions during spring training. __________________ Commish: Over The Mound

05-27-2007, 05:13 PM	#12
swishbish33 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 117	Part of my question was whether guys are generated like that, which seems to be no. But bp's point of MLB trending toward Super Utility guys is exactly what I like to carry on my team. I think that's my issue is that there don't seem to be enough of the 1B/OF type guys, or the guys that can play all over. It is interesting to see that a SS can be turned into an OF (even though in my experience it's not as easy to find a SS with great fielding that can hit at the MLB level consistently). At least the Bill Halls and Chone Figgins' can somewhat be replicated. If you play a guy out of position as he is developing in the minors so that he can learn multiple positions, does it hurt his offensive development? Thanks guys. Last edited by swishbish33; 05-27-2007 at 05:14 PM.

05-27-2007, 11:52 PM	#14
Long_Long_Name Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montréal Posts: 7,065	Didn't Carlos Delgado start off his career as a catcher, before moving to the outfield and eventually settling at 1B? What I don't understand is why there is a dramatic cleavage in abilities betwen infielders and outfielders. IRL they do not correlate perfectly, but I expect my RF with a 9/10 arm to have the same kind of arm in the infield - and I expect my gold glove shortstop to cover a little bit of ground in the outfield too. It doesn't seem to be the case, it's not only a case of players being generated without really being fit for multiple positions to start with that annoys me than the inability for them to be trained to do so, which I find quite unrealistic. __________________ Beta Baseball. Join it!

05-26-2007, 10:23 PM	#3
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	Right, but in order to do so the player needs to have the minimum fielding abilities for that position. I think what swishbish is asking is whether game-created players often have those abilities. In my very limited experience, combined infield/outfield utility guys are as rare as hen's teeth. I've had a few catcher/first basemen, and a couple outfielder/first basemen, but I don't think I've ever had an outfielder who could play second, third or short.

05-27-2007, 12:05 PM	#10
rknauber Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 47	Aubrey Huff and Albert Pujols are examples. Both can play LF in a pinch, as both have past experience with it. And I believe both have had experience playing 3b as well. And of course, 1B being thier primary position. Not utility guys, but can move around if needed.

05-27-2007, 02:47 PM	#11
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	My personal favorite real life utility guy was John Mabry (who I think just retired). He was on my Strat-O-Matic team for six seasons, backing up left field, right field, first and third. A good fielder, decent hitter with fair speed, and he always played 'above his ratings' in limited appearances for me. But the question still is (if I understood the thread originator), 'Do players capable of that get generated by the CPU?' Not in my experience.

05-28-2007, 12:38 AM	#15
SDtwin Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 406	I'll add my two cents and say that the game should allow more leeway with switching between infield and outfield. It's good to have separate ratings for both, but there certainly should be players capable of playing both at a decent-good level. or even the corner OF spots and then some IF. And it bugs me when a player has a great IF arm and a crappy OF. it should at least be average for the OF. Same with catchers. Ok. Done ranting.