The European football thread

[bababui]

Originally Posted by LFC1892

First NSW lose in the State of Origin, then waking up to watch what turned out to be a poor game(not just because of the result). I congratulate Kaka on his wonderful fall to earn the free kick just outside the box(bitter) but agree with EdR...we didnt do enough to win.....period.

I disagree it was a poor game. In fact, considering the quality of defensive players on the pitch, the game was much better than expected. No one was playing for penalties. Liverpool played well but lost because their main weakness was exposed...no class finishers.

[OldeTowneTeam]

Well, I'm very happy with the match even if no one else is -- Forza Milan!

(And having been to both Anfield and the San Siro, I'd find it hard to distinguish between the boorish behavior at both venues.)

[Muppetus Galacticus]

Originally Posted by Jordan

Well, that more or less ends the season. Can't wait until summer

Time to start a new thread and to Hell with just changing the name of this one!

[Bobbert]

Or you can start following the Swedish League, which is just 7 games into the season, and it's closer than ever, looks to be a very exiting season ahead of us.

  1 Kalmar FF     7  4  1  2  11-7    13
  2 Elfsborg      8  3  4  1  12-9    13
  3 Malmö FF      7  3  3  1  10-5    12
  4 Hammarby      7  3  2  2  10-4    11
  5 IFK Göteborg  7  3  2  2  12-8    11
  6 Halmstad      7  3  2  2   8-8    11
  7 Gefle         7  3  2  2   6-7    11
  8 Djurgården    7  3  1  3  10-6    10
  9 AIK           7  3  1  3   6-8    10
 10 Gais          7  2  2  3   5-8     8
 11 Helsingborg   7  2  1  4   7-9     7
 12 Örebro        7  1  4  2   5-8     7
 13 BP            7  1  3  3   8-14    6
 14 Trelleborg    8  1  2  5   7-16    5

[edrooney]

Originally Posted by OldeTowneTeam

(And having been to both Anfield and the San Siro, I'd find it hard to distinguish between the boorish behavior at both venues.)

Well, let's see. Vomiting on opposing fans, p*ssing on opposing fans, throwing coins, glass bottles, full cans (full of p*ss), a woman around me was knocked down by such a can, it gashed her head wide open. Blood pouring down her face, she understandably wanted to leave the area so she and her partner walked down the stairs. As they approached the section exit, she was pushed to the ground by a Italian 'policeman' brandishing a riot shield. Oh, and somebody bunged a lit flair towards my area, and I scarpered. Landed about 10 feet away, still lit.

Forza!

[bababui]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns...ro2008&cc=5739


Updated: March 27, 2007
England's problem is their very nationality

After a week of criticism from everyone capable of lifting a pen and typing on a keyboard, it is an unusual step to take, but can it be said that England's woeful performances in recent times have not actually been Steve McClaren's fault?


GettyImages
McClaren points the way, but is it all his fault?





Probably not, and he certainly can't be absolved of blame, but there is something else that has been eating away at the heart of the England side and unfortunately there is nothing whatsoever that anyone can do about it.


It is the very fact that they are English.


Sitting at the new Wembley stadium on Saturday, it was obvious that it was an English crowd simply because there were empty seats just inches from the pitch. Anywhere else in the world and these seats would have been snaffled by spectators keen to get the best view, yet as Englishmen, these fans were happy to sit 55 metres up, as long as it meant they were sitting in the seat printed on their tickets.


While this Englishness may certainly be an excellent foundation for playing for the national side, it is not something that will instil a great deal of confidence from those watching the Premiership week in, week out.

Given the exciting, fast-paced nature of the English domestic game, it may come as a surprise that this brand of football is not replicated with regularity on the international stage. Yet the Premiership is jam-packed with foreign talent, constantly out-manoeuvring their English counterparts and making the established stars look better than they are.


Wayne Rooney is lauded as England's best player, yet he has arguably the world's best player at the moment, in Cristiano Ronaldo at Manchester United, to give him the space and the time he needs to work. A frustrated Rooney is no good to anybody, as we saw against Portugal in the World Cup, and indeed there were signs that the dark side of his game was rearing its head again after the clash with Tal Ben Haim.


Rooney had made the Israeli defender look foolish not three weeks ago in a 4-1 hammering of Bolton, but on the international stage, did nothing to enhance his reputation by sulking and allegedly throwing a tantrum in the dressing room after the game.


Yet at club level, Rooney is typical of England's potential. Skilful, confident and working within a team that plays well together, the young striker is classed as the one of the best in the world, despite his tender age. Similarly, Frank Lampard has smashed 20 goals in for Chelsea from midfield, yet struggles to complete the cow and banjo idiom when he pulls on an England shirt.


Is it because they're on their own? Unused to playing without the technical excellence and insight of their foreign team-mates? On the evidence of their recent form, one would have to say that it's certainly a possibility.


Pity poor Theo Walcott if he ever fulfils his potential and holds down a regular starting place with England. Without an Englishman in the current Arsenal team (not counting the U-21 promise of Justin Hoyte), the youngster will be alone in a sea of mediocrity, having been weaned on the technical precision of Arsene Wenger's side.


That's not to say that England don't have class players. Of course the likes of Steven Gerrard, John Terry and Rooney would make any side in the world. But it is a case of making them gel, and unlike their mutual club experience, it has to be with other Englishmen.


An example of how it doesn't work (despite McClaren's protestations to the contrary) is the central midfield pairing of Lampard and Gerrard. Undoubtedly excellent players, but completely unable to play together. Jose Mourinho must be breathing a sigh of relief that Gerrard chose to stay at Liverpool over a move to Chelsea a few years back.


Lampard is used to having the freedom of Stamford Bridge, with Claude Makalele cleaning up and keeping possession next to him. In Didier Drogba, he also has a powerful main target man to play off. But when Wayne Rooney is involved, let alone throwing Gerrard into the mix in the middle as well, there is a lot less space in which to work.



GettyImages
They couldn't play together in Macedonia, and they still can't now.





Gerrard for his part, is also used to having the technically gifted Xabi Alonso beside him, along with Liverpool's 'destroyer' Momo Sissoko. When he plays for England he is often shunted onto the right-wing which he has described as the 'graveyard' shift, even preferred to the pace of Aaron Lennon, and has roamed around the pitch in search of the ball.


Lennon has the cut and thrust that has been missing in England's attacking play to date and has the pace to worry any defence, but has been misused on the left wing where he has to cut inside to cross with his right foot. Back at Tottenham, Lennon is given the freedom on the right touchline, and has even played more centrally, working off the talent of Dimitar Berbatov. If the most potent attacking threat England possess is to fire again, surely he has to play in his preferred position?


Excuses aside, and there have been many brought up by McClaren in the Israel fall-out, it is a daunting prospect that England may not qualify for the Euro 2008 tournament in Austria and Switzerland. Going from an unlucky quarter-final team to one that struggles to qualify for major competitions is a bitter pill to swallow for the media, let alone the players themselves and McClaren has shouldered much of responsibility, as any manager should.


In truth though, England's players playing together are just ordinary, and it's too much to ask that they aspire to the unrealistic tag of 'world-beaters', at least until their egos can come to terms with the harsh reality.


That, or they need to advance the cloning process to include the likes of Ronaldo, Thierry Henry and Drogba. It may be the only way that England's faithful fans get to see another trophy anytime soon.

[Muppetus Galacticus]

It is true that by themselves the England players are out of this world but when you put them all together they just don't mix.

[edrooney]

Originally Posted by Muppetus Galacticus

It is true that by themselves the England players are out of this world but when you put them all together they just don't mix.

I don't think there's that many great English players, just a lot of very good ones. Which ones are great?

Rooney? He looked like he was going to be a few years ago, but he's tailed off to very good. Gerrard? Maybe, he's got tremendous drive, and his passing and positional awareness is decent, but he lacks individual skill.

Err ... that's it. Of the whole of English players, only those 2 could justifiably be included in a discussion of great players, and I don't think they cut it. England are consistently over-rated by the media and the fans, and probably achieve exactly what they are good enough to achieve - consistent quarter and semi finalists.

That's not to say they can't win a big tourney. They're usually solid enough to not get beat easily, and if they produced an above-par performance over the course of a small number of games, they could nick a competition.

[Muppetus Galacticus]

Originally Posted by edrooney

I don't think there's that many great English players, just a lot of very good ones. Which ones are great?

Oops I meant to say "some of them" Gerrard, Rooney, Terry and Lampard for me.

[edrooney]

Originally Posted by Muppetus Galacticus

Oops I meant to say "some of them" Gerrard, Rooney, Terry and Lampard for me.

No Chelsea player is any good. Apart from Petr Cech, the goalie. He seems nice enough. Pretty tidy with his hands as well.

Lampard's pretty good. He gets around a bit, scores a lot of goals (mostly from deflections or penalties, though). Decent passer.

Terry's good. He gets caught out positionally for England too often, he's not very fast, but he can dominate in the air, and is a good tackler.

I refuse to give Chelsea players any more credit than they're due (and usually a lot less).

[Muppetus Galacticus]

Originally Posted by edrooney

I refuse to give Chelsea players any more credit than they're due (and usually a lot less).

That's fair, I'm the same with Spurs!

[bababui]

Originally Posted by Muppetus Galacticus

That's fair, I'm the same with Spurs!

I agree. Tim Duncan is very overrated.

[theasfl]

Originally Posted by bababui

My prediction:

If Liverpool is ahead or tied at the half they win; if not its the corrupt Italian cheaters winning which will be a black eye for the sport.

not too bad of a prediction....good thing about 3 people in America realize AC Milan was involved in a matchfixing scandal.


I was rooting for AC Milan, glad they came out on top.

[theasfl]

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

Attachment 83543

am I the only one that things thats a crazy looking stadium?

[Raderick]

Originally Posted by theasfl

am I the only one that things thats a crazy looking stadium?

Doesn't the new Wembley Stadium have a similar exterior?

[theasfl]

Originally Posted by Raderick

Doesn't the new Wembley Stadium have a similar exterior?

I havent seen it

[Raderick]

Originally Posted by theasfl

I havent seen it

[The Funk]

IMO from the outside the new Wembley stadium looks like an airport terminal, and equally soulless.

[Raderick]

Originally Posted by bababui

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns...ro2008&cc=5739


Updated: March 27, 2007
England's problem is their very nationality

I hear that England's security are more anal when it comes to fans not sitting in their assigned seats.

[theasfl]

Originally Posted by Raderick

more crazy looking