2007 New York Yankees Thread - Page 31

darkhorse · 05-17-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

Yep, that's why I loved those teams. A bunch of average to above average players working together as a team to get the job done. They were a lot of fun to watch.

ROFL

That may have been the perception, but it's far from reality. That may well be the best baseball team in MLB history.

darkenigma510 · 05-17-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Well, recent Yankees anyway. Clemens notwithstanding, I think the team has moved away from the sins of the early 2000's.

That's why I chose them for my user name. Not just because they were so successful, but for what you just said.

Yeah, as much as I hate the Yankees, the late 90s Yankees were much more likeable than other eras.

CommishJoe · 05-17-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

ROFL

That may have been the perception, but it's far from reality. That may well be the best baseball team in MLB history.

I agree that combined, they might be the best baseball team in MLB history. However, individually, how many do you think are HOFers? Jeter, Cone, Rivera and Raines (the 38 year old version) are the only ones that stand out as possibilities.

darkhorse · 05-17-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

I agree that combined, they might be the best baseball team in MLB history. However, individually, how many do you think are HOFers? Jeter, Cone, Rivera and Raines (the 38 year old version) are the only ones that stand out as possibilities.

Jeter and Rivera aren't possibilities. Bernie is one of the top 10 CF's of all time. Cone was a great pitcher. David Wells is a great pitcher.

Edit: Jorge Posada is a great catcher. Paul O'Neill another great player. Hell, the '98 Yanks had Darryl Strawberry as a part-timer.

Edit x 2: Hell, I hadn't even mentioned Andy Pettitte.

CommishJoe · 05-17-2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Jeter and Rivera aren't possibilities. Bernie is one of the top 10 CF's of all time. Cone was a great pitcher. David Wells is a great pitcher.

Edit: Jorge Posada is a great catcher. Paul O'Neill another great player. Hell, the '98 Yanks had Darryl Strawberry as a part-timer.

Edit x 2: Hell, I hadn't even mentioned Andy Pettitte.

I missed Posada. I would agree he's a HOFer in the waiting.

I didn't list Straw because I consider him above average(closer to avg in '98), but not hall worthy.

O'Neill is another above average player, but not hall worthy.

My quote was they were a bunch of average and above average players without many super stars. I wouldn't consider Bernie, Paulie, Brosious, Knoblauch, Tino, Chad Curtis, or anyone on the pitching staff other than Cone and Rivera to be "super stars".

Another point ..Posada, Pettitte, Rivera (only his 2nd year as the closer), Jeter and Ramiro Mendoza were all home grown kids and not imported talent. Throw Bernie (he was already on his "rich" contract at this time) and Paulie (I know he was traded for, but it was an excellent trade and he was a Yankee for a while before '98

) and you had a bunch of home grown talent playing together. As a Yankee fan since 1975, that was so different and exciting to watch.

The current Yankees have the following potential HOFers:

Giambi
Jeter
A-Rod
Abreu
Clemens
Posada
Rivera
Mussina

Most of this is imported talent and can be considered "super stars" complete with their own baggage and egos. That's not even including the recently traded Sheffield and RJ.

That's what my point was trying to get across.

Luis_Rivera · 05-17-2007, 02:10 PM

I think that the perception of the Yankees being a bunch of above average players comes from a couple things. First of all, their best position players were at SS, 2B and CF... three positions with a fairly low replacement level, meaning a great CFer and a great SS aren't going to stand above with gaudy power numbers, but they still help the team the same as a masher at one of the corner positions.

Also, that '98 team saw a career year from Brosius that netted them a few wins. They had a lot of talent that isn't obvious to highlight reels, but that doesn't make them a team of average-to-above average guys just gettin' it done. They were a great team, and a balanced team with zero weaknesses.

dh, you forgot about Knoblauch who was probably on his way to a HoF career if he didn't lose his head.

CommishJoe · 05-17-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

IThey were a great team, and a balanced team with zero weaknesses.

I agree with this, but I don't think that invalidates my statement

1998 Yankees · 05-17-2007, 03:40 PM

Damn.

I know when I'm working too hard when I take a half day off (I don't care if that sounds contradictory), turn on the telly which is still tuned to YES, and think for at least 10 minutes that what I am seeing is a re-broadcast of yesterday's day game. The clue just before the dawn: Trying to remember when DeSalvo came in to relieve yesterday. Whaaa?

No, dummy, this game is live!

Ahhh. Henceforth, I hereby resolve to consult the Yankees schedule before making any business or career decisions, without fail.

CommishJoe · 05-17-2007, 04:31 PM

I guess the DeSalvo honeymoon is over

Should be interesting to see how he does in his next start.

1998 Yankees · 05-17-2007, 04:33 PM

Yes. Now I wish it was a replay from yesterday that I was watching.

1998 Yankees · 05-17-2007, 04:34 PM

Dola,

Back to the discussion, the thing about the 1998 Yankees.

It's having 10 guys with 10 or more home runs but nobody more than 28. It's the team being carried in terms of RBI's by two guys who are probably not going to the Hall of Fame: Paul O'Neill (116) and Tino Martinez (123).

In addition to Brosius, it's guys like Shane Spencer being called up in September and hitting 10 home runs and .373 in 67 AB's, backup infielder Homer Bush batting .380, as well as significant contributions from background players like Joe Girardi, Luis Sojo, and Chili Davis.

On the pitching side, there were Ramiro Mendoza (10-2, 3.25 ERA) and Graeme Lloyd (3-0, 1.67 in 50 games) as well as Jeff Nelson (3.79) and Darren Holmes (3.33) having good years (for them). Heck, even "Fat Toad" Hideki Irabu had his best year in the MLB in 1998 (13-9, 4.06).

No special names here at all, at least not to non-Yankee fans. Many of them did very little for the rest of their careers. See Shane Spencer, for example.

Sure, the 1998 Yankees had Jeter, Williams, Posada, Cone, Wells, Pettitte, and Rivera. For other reasons, these men brought their own distinction to the team. But it's the contributions of those other relatively unknown guys that make this team special, in my opinion.

Skipaway · 05-17-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Sure, the 1998 Yankees had Jeter, Williams, Posada, Cone, Wells, Pettitte, and Rivera. For other reasons, these men brought their own distinction to the team. But it's the contributions of those other relatively unknown guys that make this team special, in my opinion.

Special in the when you remove all the big name players, the team would have been a below .500 team kind of way?

CommishJoe · 05-17-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Special in the when you remove all the big name players, the team would have been a below .500 team kind of way?

The "big name" players weren't really big names in 1998. Jeter, Pettitte & Rivera were in their 3rd years (with Rivera being a closer for the 2nd year) and Posada was just taking over from Girardi. That leaves Bernie and Cone being the big name players who were "proven" in '98.

Tony M · 05-17-2007, 06:25 PM

Even though I'm not a fan of the Yankees, it is a real shame to see that A-Rod has come off his early season pace, because I get a feeling that the fans will start booing him again which is not good because he is still up at the top of the leaderboards.

in his first 75 AB he belted 14HR and 34RBI and in his last 76 AB it's 1HR and 5RBI (and the HR and the 5RBI account for just 3 of those 76). He's crossed the plate 9 times in that spell, so he's not even getting driven home by the likes of Matsui and Posada who are posting averages of 0.275 and 0.371.

Do you think he'll snap back into a hot streak just as easily as he went cold?

Next week's series has the makings of some good psychology behind it. The Yankees are doing better at home (10-9) than they are against AL East (3-11), so the Yankees won't want to lose the series to the Red Sox. A 2-1 loss would put them at .500 at home and under .240 against the division and that will sting. Whether that would hurt the Yankees or just make them even more determined remains to be seen.

If we beat the Tigers in the second match tonight and go equal in the Interleague series the gap at the end of our next series will either be 6.5,8.5,10.5 or 12.5 GB for the Yankees. My head says the latter is what we want, but 6.5GB would keep us on our toes because we know how easy it is to lose 5 in a row against you.

1998 Yankees · 05-17-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsoxford

Even though I'm not a fan of the Yankees, it is a real shame to see that A-Rod has come off his early season pace, because I get a feeling that the fans will start booing him again which is not good because he is still up at the top of the leaderboards.

The way that the Yankees are playing right now, the fans will not have an incentive to concentrate on him. The worst of times for A-Rod is when the team is doing all right without him producing at the plate. That's when he looks like a waste of money, when others are carrying the team. Right now, he's got lots of company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsoxford

Do you think he'll snap back into a hot streak just as easily as he went cold?

That is the definition of "streak," no? Hot or cold, come and go. That's also the nature of baseball.

CMH · 05-17-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsoxford

in his first 75 AB he belted 14HR and 34RBI and in his last 76 AB it's 1HR and 5RBI (and the HR and the 5RBI account for just 3 of those 76). He's crossed the plate 9 times in that spell, so he's not even getting driven home by the likes of Matsui and Posada who are posting averages of 0.275 and 0.371.

You can't cross the plate if you don't get on base.

When Alex starts hitting again he'll have more than 9 runs.

CommishJoe · 05-18-2007, 10:13 AM

Fans can be stupid sometimes, and might blame A-Rod for the lack of success lately. Hopefully, they won't be THAT stupid. The team has down right stunk lately. Figures they get all the offense when their pitching stinks. Now, their pitching is coming around and their offense stinks. They need to figure out how to put it all together.

They are a MUCH better team than the way they have been playing lately. Hopefully, Torre and crew can figure out a way to snap them out of it.

1998 Yankees · 05-18-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

They are a MUCH better team than the way they have been playing lately. Hopefully, Torre and crew can figure out a way to snap them out of it.

It's too early to panic, but these next six games against the Mets and Red Sox are crucial. If there are any sweeps or even if they just lose four out of six, I think the psychological damage to the team will be out of proportion with the calendar date. The malaise may then carry over into June and beyond, and then it's time to panic.

Well, not "panic." All of us Yankee fans need to remember how difficult it is to be consistently good in major league baseball. I'd rather they did not panic if this is going to be a bad year. There are too many good things just over the horizon for them to panic and do things for short-term gains (which usually don't pan out anyway).

CommishJoe · 05-18-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

There are too many good things just over the horizon for them to panic and do things for short-term gains (which usually don't pan out anyway).

Agreed.

Joshv02 · 05-18-2007, 01:54 PM

You should win 2 out of 3 against the Red Sox. Should win an easy one with the RS #5 starter going in game 3, and win one out of two in the Wake/Schil games in NY. I'd be disappointed in less than that if I were a Yankees fan.

05-17-2007, 04:31 PM	#609
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	I guess the DeSalvo honeymoon is over Should be interesting to see how he does in his next start. __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

05-17-2007, 04:34 PM	#611
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	Dola, Back to the discussion, the thing about the 1998 Yankees. It's having 10 guys with 10 or more home runs but nobody more than 28. It's the team being carried in terms of RBI's by two guys who are probably not going to the Hall of Fame: Paul O'Neill (116) and Tino Martinez (123). In addition to Brosius, it's guys like Shane Spencer being called up in September and hitting 10 home runs and .373 in 67 AB's, backup infielder Homer Bush batting .380, as well as significant contributions from background players like Joe Girardi, Luis Sojo, and Chili Davis. On the pitching side, there were Ramiro Mendoza (10-2, 3.25 ERA) and Graeme Lloyd (3-0, 1.67 in 50 games) as well as Jeff Nelson (3.79) and Darren Holmes (3.33) having good years (for them). Heck, even "Fat Toad" Hideki Irabu had his best year in the MLB in 1998 (13-9, 4.06). No special names here at all, at least not to non-Yankee fans. Many of them did very little for the rest of their careers. See Shane Spencer, for example. Sure, the 1998 Yankees had Jeter, Williams, Posada, Cone, Wells, Pettitte, and Rivera. For other reasons, these men brought their own distinction to the team. But it's the contributions of those other relatively unknown guys that make this team special, in my opinion. Last edited by 1998 Yankees; 05-17-2007 at 04:36 PM.

05-18-2007, 10:13 AM	#617
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	Fans can be stupid sometimes, and might blame A-Rod for the lack of success lately. Hopefully, they won't be THAT stupid. The team has down right stunk lately. Figures they get all the offense when their pitching stinks. Now, their pitching is coming around and their offense stinks. They need to figure out how to put it all together. They are a MUCH better team than the way they have been playing lately. Hopefully, Torre and crew can figure out a way to snap them out of it. __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

05-18-2007, 01:54 PM	#620
Joshv02 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: , " Posts: 3,082	You should win 2 out of 3 against the Red Sox. Should win an easy one with the RS #5 starter going in game 3, and win one out of two in the Wake/Schil games in NY. I'd be disappointed in less than that if I were a Yankees fan. __________________ Brookline Maccabees. RIP

05-17-2007, 02:10 PM	#606
Luis_Rivera Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,177	I think that the perception of the Yankees being a bunch of above average players comes from a couple things. First of all, their best position players were at SS, 2B and CF... three positions with a fairly low replacement level, meaning a great CFer and a great SS aren't going to stand above with gaudy power numbers, but they still help the team the same as a masher at one of the corner positions. Also, that '98 team saw a career year from Brosius that netted them a few wins. They had a lot of talent that isn't obvious to highlight reels, but that doesn't make them a team of average-to-above average guys just gettin' it done. They were a great team, and a balanced team with zero weaknesses. dh, you forgot about Knoblauch who was probably on his way to a HoF career if he didn't lose his head.

05-17-2007, 03:40 PM	#608
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	Damn. I know when I'm working too hard when I take a half day off (I don't care if that sounds contradictory), turn on the telly which is still tuned to YES, and think for at least 10 minutes that what I am seeing is a re-broadcast of yesterday's day game. The clue just before the dawn: Trying to remember when DeSalvo came in to relieve yesterday. Whaaa? No, dummy, this game is live! Ahhh. Henceforth, I hereby resolve to consult the Yankees schedule before making any business or career decisions, without fail.

05-17-2007, 04:33 PM	#610
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	Yes. Now I wish it was a replay from yesterday that I was watching.

05-17-2007, 06:25 PM	#614
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156	Even though I'm not a fan of the Yankees, it is a real shame to see that A-Rod has come off his early season pace, because I get a feeling that the fans will start booing him again which is not good because he is still up at the top of the leaderboards. in his first 75 AB he belted 14HR and 34RBI and in his last 76 AB it's 1HR and 5RBI (and the HR and the 5RBI account for just 3 of those 76). He's crossed the plate 9 times in that spell, so he's not even getting driven home by the likes of Matsui and Posada who are posting averages of 0.275 and 0.371. Do you think he'll snap back into a hot streak just as easily as he went cold? Next week's series has the makings of some good psychology behind it. The Yankees are doing better at home (10-9) than they are against AL East (3-11), so the Yankees won't want to lose the series to the Red Sox. A 2-1 loss would put them at .500 at home and under .240 against the division and that will sting. Whether that would hurt the Yankees or just make them even more determined remains to be seen. If we beat the Tigers in the second match tonight and go equal in the Interleague series the gap at the end of our next series will either be 6.5,8.5,10.5 or 12.5 GB for the Yankees. My head says the latter is what we want, but 6.5GB would keep us on our toes because we know how easy it is to lose 5 in a row against you.