Utba

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Well the truth is that a minor league system in year 1 really wouldnt work that well. All the fighters would be at the same age. IMO even if we started over year 4-5 would be about the perfect time to add a minor league system(Right before many fighters go post prime so the beginners are in pre-prime when others are fading.

I will stay out of it and let you guys talk about it, I think its pretty clear where my stance is. Great ideas come from great disputes I think a great philosopher once said or did I just make that up

I actually agree with this .. there is no point to a minor league in year 1, 2 or 3.

My only sticking point right now is I would like the rosters to be set for the remainder of the season before week 8 or like Chris said a limited # of callups ... once you call a guy up twice he has to stay or be released.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by mh2365

My only sticking point right now is I would like the rosters to be set for the remainder of the season before week 8 or like Chris said a limited # of callups ... once you call a guy up twice he has to stay or be released.

I agree with both of these, the only problem in setting week 8 as the final roster date is a fighter could go prime in the minors in week 9/10 so an exception would need to be made for when that may come up.

And just so Lee doesnt feel slighted as it looks like he put a lot of thought into it. I like the idea as a 2nd option. I would prefer the proposed idea so the Free agent mess could get cleaned up a little. But if the proposed idea was turned down I would vote in favor of your idea.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I agree with both of these, the only problem in setting week 8 as the final roster date is a fighter could go prime in the minors in week 9/10 so an exception would need to be made for when that may come up.

True so limiting the # of callups is probably the best way to go.

[SAL]

Originally Posted by mh2365

If you had said the goal was to get rid of 1's and 2's entirely that might have been different. I'm still not really in favor of unlimited moves, but could we at least add the stipulation that your rosters have to be set by week 8?

Really not trying to be difficult but if I don't like an idea am I supposed to just keep quiet about it?

Sorry I wasn't more specific.

Let me add to what I said earlier but first.......I know you're not trying to be difficult and no I don't want you to be quiet, I let my emotions get in the way after all the work that went into this thing. I'm trying to help myself out with league operations.

I had two goals in mind when putting this together with jbergey. We need to do something with the draft pool and now. Some fighters have to go period. The draft pool is to flooded with fighters. If we draft minor league teams from the draft pool that will take care of the problem. Using minor league teams would also offer some of the better fighters that have been sitting in the pool for two seasons get a chance to perform as well. Most owners when looking for fighters in the draft pool to pick up on waivers first look to see who has experience instead of the overall rating of a fighter. (e.i. a pre-prime fighter rated 5 will probably go before a beginner 7 in the waivers) With fighters gaining experience in the minors also means less fighters will have to be added before the regular season draft for the big clubs thus saving our numbers. I guess what I'm trying to say is the minor league clubs will help supplement the draft/free agent pool and the need to add a bunch of fighters each season will be reduced.

The other goal is we are coming up on a shortage of 1's and 2's that can be added to the league and I sure would hate to start adding a bunch of user created 1's and 2's. I've worked real hard on the draft pool over the last four seasons trying to gain some sort of balance in the overall rating department. With the addition of expansion teams the last few seasons......the plan kinda blew up trying to achieve that balance because I didn't want to short change the newcomers and not let them have a chance at some higher rated fighters in the draft.

The reason for the stipulations on the ratings in the minors is to save the big guns for the regular draft and to build up the lower rated fighters like the 4's, 5's and 6's because I think they will have more value at pre-prime/Prime than a 7 to 9 rated beginner. (3's to 7's is what we have the most of in the database)


I agree completly with you on the unlimited moves. If we just set (just an idea here) up a deadline, say like.............
At the end of week 7, that will be the only time the UTBA team could move fighters from their minor system to the UTBA team.

You guys put your heads together and make what changes you wish to this thing (let me know what they are and I'll see if I can do it when running the league) and I'll post it for a league vote.

[Romultiltus]

So far there have been a lot of good ideas and comments so far. Open discussion is a major part of why UTBA has been successful and fun for us all.

I've already mentioned my views so here is my last words on the subject. A vote will decide this for us all. I really enjoy posting the stats and stuff for the league, but keep this in mind:

Updating my database of from which I use to compile the stats takes about 1/2 hour for each match each week. With 12 matches a week that adds up to a minumum of 6 hours (most of the time more) just keeping track of everything. On top of that, add at least a few hours to organize the stats (Points Leaders, UTBA Power Rankings, etc.) Add another hour or so to convert the data on .xls spreadsheets to .jpg files and post them to the boards. Between seasons, it takes at least a week for me to update all of the draft and roster changes (which I am currently working on).

Adding a minor league adds 10 more team matches which will take time. I've mentioned this before, but if anyone wants copies of the 40+ .xls spreadsheets I maintain for the league, send me an e-mail address and I'll send them out.

I'm not asking for sympathy or even help with what I contribute to the league, I just want everyone to know where I'm coming from when I poo-poo massive changes even if I agree that they are good ideas.

Bottom line - The more we add to the league, the harder it will be to provide the stats and stuff that some of you guys enjoy to read through each week.

Let's just vote and then move on to Season 5

[mh2365]

I'll do the minor league stats Dave if you help me set it up and can even keep track of how many times a fighter has been called up.

I work from home now so I have a lot more time.

[JCWeb]

If the whole thrust of this proposal is to give the fighters in the free agent pool some experience to then make them more attractive in future drafts or as waiver picks, why not just run a series of bouts with an autoscheduler versus some TCs and some of the other fighters without the necessity of having the UTBA owners draft a minor league team. This could be done either midway or at the end of each season, right before the drafting of new fighters. Wouldn't this serve the same purpose as that outlined above?

My concern, incidentally, is not only that the current rules (as amended recently by a proposal which I opposed) is that UTBA owners seeking to build a contending team have an incentive to collect as many Prime fighters as possible and then to hang onto them as long as possible, including once they hit Post-Prime, given that holding onto these aging vets will yield a bonus in the form of more cap space. I actually would like to see something to provide greater incentives to pick up the marginal pre-Prime and beginner guys that seem to be flooding the draft pool -- in fact, as someone observed, it's the lower rated guys in a few divisions that seem to be picked just to keep under the cap room while crowding in as many of the newer higher rated guys as possible.

Nonetheless, in spite of these minor misgivings, the Playboys are looking forward to the upcoming season.

[jbergey22]

I am glad you are looking forward to the season Playboys.

Bonner Springs(one of the top franchises thus far) went through an entire rebuilding mode this season, he obviously didnt see a bonus in keeping post prime fighters and some others have started to do the same so I dont quite agree with your statement "once they hit Post-Prime, given that holding onto these aging vets will yield a bonus in the form of more cap space."

The tomato can idea stated bluntly will not accomplish the same and will really mess up the records.

[Romultiltus]

Originally Posted by mh2365

I'll do the minor league stats Dave if you help me set it up and can even keep track of how many times a fighter has been called up.

I work from home now so I have a lot more time.

Thanks for offering. You may be surprised at how anal-retentive my records are. Feel free to change your mind - it's a big job (at least for my little pea-brain)

[mh2365]

I will only keep favorites at Post ... Johnson, Franklin and Arguello are the only ones I am willing to take on at post right now.

[SAL]

Originally Posted by mh2365

True so limiting the # of callups is probably the best way to go.

Which way should wat should we write this up Mike. Limit the # of call-ups or set a certain date for call-ups?

[Romdawg88]

Originally Posted by mh2365

I will only keep favorites at Post ... Johnson, Franklin and Arguello are the only ones I am willing to take on at post right now.

I'm doing the same. Medel, Rosario, and maybe Tellez are the only ones I'm thinking of keeping around in post and I'm not even sure if I'm going to go that route. I like winning to much and I don't know if a few extra points are enough for me to keep a number of fighters who are only going to get worse.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by SAL

Which way should wat should we write this up Mike. Limit the # of call-ups or set a certain date for call-ups?

Limit the # of callups because as someone else stated what is someone turns prime in week 9. I think Chris has the right idea .. the second time someone hits the pros he has to stay or be released. At that point he can be picked up and put on the minors of another team but he can never be on the minors of your team again. I voluntered with Dave to take care of the minors so I would be responsible for tracking this as well.

[bigMatt]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Bonner Springs(one of the top franchises thus far) went through an entire rebuilding mode this season, he obviously didnt see a bonus in keeping post prime fighters and some others have started to do the same so I dont quite agree with your statement "once they hit Post-Prime, given that holding onto these aging vets will yield a bonus in the form of more cap space."

All I had to do was sim a few post-prime fights to know how useless those fighters would be. There is no benefit. Trust me. Or do the test yourself.

[mh2365]

I've had some post prime fighters do okay in my uni ... but it takes an 8 to beat a 5 or a 6 for most cases .. now end will be really tough to keep around.

[bigMatt]

Originally Posted by mh2365

Limit the # of callups because as someone else stated what is someone turns prime in week 9. I think Chris has the right idea .. the second time someone hits the pros he has to stay or be released. At that point he can be picked up and put on the minors of another team but he can never be on the minors of your team again. I voluntered with Dave to take care of the minors so I would be responsible for tracking this as well.

I guess I just plain don't understand this. Call ups will add a depth of management to the UTBA that we haven't had before. Moving guys up and down not only give them experience, it adds a dimension that would be a lot of fun. You have to decide, before each match, what you are going to bring to the bout. Each manager doing that leads to a lot more variables. That sounds like fun to me. Then again, I'm an adventurer at heart. But also, knowing a good thing when I'm part of it, I'll be happy regardless of what we decide.

[SAL]

Originally Posted by mh2365

Limit the # of callups because as someone else stated what is someone turns prime in week 9. I think Chris has the right idea .. the second time someone hits the pros he has to stay or be released. At that point he can be picked up and put on the minors of another team but he can never be on the minors of your team again. I voluntered with Dave to take care of the minors so I would be responsible for tracking this as well.

So I should replace unlimited moves with:
Limit the # of callups to the second time someone is called up he will have to stay on the big roster or be released to the FA pool.

Should I remove the stipulations on the fighter ratings as well and just stick with team cap only?

[bigMatt]

Originally Posted by mh2365

I've had some post prime fighters do okay in my uni ... but it takes an 8 to beat a 5 or a 6 for most cases .. now end will be really tough to keep around.

All I know is when my very tough 7, Bernard Taylor, faced weak 4's, he was at best a call. Not worth a roster spot as a 5.

That said, I will keep Walker until he's no longer an asset.

[bigMatt]

Originally Posted by SAL

So I should replace unlimited moves with:
Limit the # of callups to the second time someone is called up he will have to stay on the big roster or be released to the FA pool.

Should I remove the stipulations on the fighter ratings as well and just stick with team cap only?

I think the unlimited call-ups is the single most attractive aspect of the proposal. I don't understand the stipulation.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by bigMatt

I guess I just plain don't understand this. Call ups will add a depth of management to the UTBA that we haven't had before. Moving guys up and down not only give them experience, it adds a dimension that would be a lot of fun. You have to decide, before each match, what you are going to bring to the bout. Each manager doing that leads to a lot more variables. That sounds like fun to me. Then again, I'm an adventurer at heart. But also, knowing a good thing when I'm part of it, I'll be happy regardless of what we decide.

I would normally be with you on this BigMatt because I love the tactical sides of things also, but I think it would add more work for Scot plus the fact that if we were facing each other we would probably be changing our lineups all week trying to get that advantage. I suppose if the moves were kept secret until the deadline passes it could work but at this point I dont want Scot to have to deal with this. Plus I think certain owners wont want to deal with having to get lineups in each week and become frustrated with all this extra activity.