The European football thread

[ukhotstove]

Looks like the rumours are true, Charlton, Fulham, Sheff Utd and Wigan are taking action against the Premier League. Other teams could follow suit, I mean just imagine if say Man Utd draw against Man City which could easily happen and Chelsea beat Arsenal, then Chelsea go onto to beat United so we have a scenario of Man Utd tied with Chelsea on the last game of the season.

Then what if Man Utd are beating West Ham and Chelsea are beating Everton but United are winning the title on goal difference until that is Tevez pops up and equalises against United in the last minute to let Chelsea win the title, long odds of this happening but **** you can hear the anger coming out of Old Trafford if that does happen.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...em/6624305.stm

[zoraster]

Who on earth would make such a complaint? There is no question about Tevez's eligibility, and that sort of complaint would be as petty and frivolous as the complaints of the relegation rivals.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by zoraster

Who on earth would make such a complaint? There is no question about Tevez's eligibility, and that sort of complaint would be as petty and frivolous as the complaints of the relegation rivals.

West Ham are in the sticky stuff up to their eye balls they even played him against Wigan knowing full well the ripping up his contract with his owners wasn't legal but this was the only way the Premiership would let him play, have to say anybody who thinks that if it had been Watford or Sheff utd in the same position would have only got a fine is very naive even the Premiership know they screwed up on this one or they wouldn't have sent Scudamore round to the teams involved if they felt they had done the right thing.

Like I said before if Wigan go down it's down to them and nobody else but lets all play on a level playing field and not on who greases each other's palms the most.

[zoraster]

I think you’re operating under some fundamental misunderstandings, not helped one iota by the hordes of ignorant opinions being spouted by people who don’t know even the most basic facts. Case in point you imply the Premiership cocked up, but they had nothing whatsoever to do with it. That is kind of the point of independent arbitration... it is independent Blame the silk, he had a total free hand. Moreover given there is no precedent or guideline for this case I’d love to know on what you base the assertion that other clubs would have received a different outcome.

Just out of interest what exactly do you think West Ham have done wrong?

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by zoraster

I think you’re operating under some fundamental misunderstandings, not helped one iota by the hordes of ignorant opinions being spouted by people who don’t know even the most basic facts. Case in point you imply the Premiership cocked up, but they had nothing whatsoever to do with it. That is kind of the point of independent arbitration... it is independent Blame the silk, he had a total free hand. Moreover given there is no precedent or guideline for this case I’d love to know on what you base the assertion that other clubs would have received a different outcome.

Just out of interest what exactly do you think West Ham have done wrong?

Lied and deceived the Premier League, let me ask you some questions, if everything is above board then why is legal action being taken against West Ham by 2 parties, clubs and the owners of Tevez, if everything is above board then why did Scudamore visit 6 clubs if the Premiership felt the right punishment had been handed down, I've spoken to a few West Ham fans and even 90% of them say they got away with it and point the finger at Brooking for helping them get away with it.

[zoraster]

This is exactly what I mean about all the ignorant opinions being thrown about

Let me reiterate yet again - especially with regard to the frankly laughable and disgraceful Brooking jibe - nobody involved in the game had anything to do with the judgment whatsoever. The ruling came from the independent commission and was the judgment of one of our nations leading criminal silks. Now our great game may be rather corrupt, but suggesting it is in the habit of nobbling leading counsel would be taking things to a new level altogether.

if everything is above board then why is legal action being taken against West Ham by 2 parties, clubs

Short answer because they are either idiots, or more likely because they are playing the mob. Bottom line is they have no case, and taking any action would in fact be in more blatant breach of EPL (and FIFA) rules than West Ham’s offence. My guess is they saw the effectiveness of the bullying tactics employed during the AFC Wimbledon campaign and know how easily an ignorant mob with a bit of momentum behind it can squash the truth if nobody has the confidence to stand up. West Ham demonstrated weakness by essentially plea bargaining when they could have cleared themselves, and now the vultures are circling.

and the owners of Tevez

Not sure where you got this from. As far as I’m aware there is no issue at all, and they’ve just tweaked the wording of the break clause to bring it in line with the language agreed with the Liverpool deal. They certainly haven’t just torn up the contract as you implied earlier; I guess this is yet another of the myths being spouted. Are you perhaps confusing the threatened action of Terry Brown, the former chairman who has seen privileges that were agreed as part of the buyout revoked as a result of the dispute?


I’m sure you don’t want to get into the real minutiae of the case, so I’ll just deal with the key issue related to a points deduction. The only way you can justify a points deduction is if the players were not acknowledged to be owned by a third party from the outset. This wasn’t the case. It was an accepted fact that the EPL knew of the third party ownership from the 31st August. The issue is merely a technical one relating to precise wording of the break clauses, which by-the-by will never stand up to a legal challenge if West Ham have their hand forced. There was never a question about the eligibility of the players, and that is the crucial point regarding points deductions.

[ukhotstove]

Reported this week that the people who own Tevez are taking West Ham to court because they ripped up the contract they had with them as it was the only way that Tevez could play against Latics, look it's cool you have this big hate on Wigan Athletic, I can live with that as at the end of the day doesn't bother me who hates the team I follow, And you are really naive if you think it was an independent judgement, why did it take them so long to come to that judgement hmm wouldn't be in the hope West Ham would have been down so then they could have taken points off them without the guilt of sending them down

[zoraster]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

And you are really naive if you think it was an independent judgement, why did it take them so long to come to that judgement hmm wouldn't be in the hope West Ham would have been down so then they could have taken points off them without the guilt of sending them down

Dear god, we are truly off in a world of conspiracy theory now That isn’t difficult to explain. It is called diary management. The case was first raised back in the last days of January, and the hearing began on 26th April. You are talking three months, and the hearing involved three silks (one chairing the commission, and one each instructed by the league and West Ham). That is bloody fast. Speaking as someone who spent some years in counsels chambers I can tell you that finding a diary window to suit three silks faster than that just doesn’t happen in the normal course of events. When it comes to fixing trials it generally ends up being months down the line before you find a window where all parties are free. The date had nothing to do with football at all, and everything to do with the hectic life of our legal profession. Seriously, go and talk to anyone who has experience of English law and ask them how often they reckon you could arrange a two day hearing involving three silks faster than three months. No one would have been remotely surprised if the hearing couldn’t take place this season at all.


I can’t say I’m surprised to see you display that chip on your shoulder again. Just because I’m able to offer a few actual facts to balance some of the blatant untruths you lot have been spinning to wind each other up doesn’t mean I’m anti-Wigan. I’m pro-truth. It is incredibly hard to take you seriously when you curl up into this defensive posture all the time. I’ve not even mentioned Wigan in this bit of conversation, but I’d guess your interpretation of our discussion tells us all we need to know about your angle on this whole issue. Pointing out that this was a legal decision not a football one is a bit tough to spin as anti-Wigan

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by zoraster

Dear god, we are truly off in a world of conspiracy theory now That isn’t difficult to explain. It is called diary management. The case was first raised back in the last days of January, and the hearing began on 26th April. You are talking three months, and the hearing involved three silks (one chairing the commission, and one each instructed by the league and West Ham). That is bloody fast. Speaking as someone who spent some years in counsels chambers I can tell you that finding a diary window to suit three silks faster than that just doesn’t happen in the normal course of events. When it comes to fixing trials it generally ends up being months down the line before you find a window where all parties are free. The date had nothing to do with football at all, and everything to do with the hectic life of our legal profession. Seriously, go and talk to anyone who has experience of English law and ask them how often they reckon you could arrange a two day hearing involving three silks faster than three months. No one would have been remotely surprised if the hearing couldn’t take place this season at all.


I can’t say I’m surprised to see you display that chip on your shoulder again. Just because I’m able to offer a few actual facts to balance some of the blatant untruths you lot have been spinning to wind each other up doesn’t mean I’m anti-Wigan. I’m pro-truth. It is incredibly hard to take you seriously when you curl up into this defensive posture all the time. I’ve not even mentioned Wigan in this bit of conversation, but I’d guess your interpretation of our discussion tells us all we need to know about your angle on this whole issue. Pointing out that this was a legal decision not a football one is a bit tough to spin as anti-Wigan

Your not anti Wigan ? Every post you have ever made that has mentioned or has anything to do with Wigan Athletic has been to put them down in some way shape or form, go look back at your posts and you will find that out very easily. I didn't and NEVER have said the decision is anti Wigan, if you read my posts never once have I blamed anyone BUT Wigan on the position they find themselves in.

You go ask any fan of any club (even West Ham) and even go ask people within football and I'd say 90% would say West Ham were let of because of who they are and that they should have had points deducted from them.

Also I take offence at you saying that "blatant untruth's you lot have been spinning", never once have I knowingly or have known anybody who I talk to on this thread lied about anything, we may not be the perfect person you are but I strongly take offence that you label us as liars.

We do wind each other up and football fans have been doing it for 100's of years and will be doing it for 100's of years long after me and the other liars have gone to hell specially that bababui who even has his own spot reserved in hell (Leigh RMI 4 Life lol), but I'll tell you one thing the "liars" on this board are always and will always be welcome in Wigan to partake in watching some football and sitting back with a beer, none more so than bababui, raderick and LFC who I wind up the most but NEVER once have I wound them up with a lie nor would I ever do so and nor do I think they would ever do so.

[bababui]

I may be a liar but I am proud of it.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by bababui

I may be a liar but I am proud of it.

For one of our proud liars Leigh RMI and a woman all in one picture, somebody will be having wet dreams for a month

[rudel.dietrich]

I never make any wind up lists

[bababui]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

For one of our proud liars Leigh RMI and a woman all in one picture, somebody will be having wet dreams for a month


Attachment 80366

Who is the player? He looks as good as Wayne Rooney....and has more hair.

[zoraster]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

Your not anti Wigan ? Every post you have ever made that has mentioned or has anything to do with Wigan Athletic has been to put them down in some way shape or form, go look back at your posts and you will find that out very easily.

No mate, that is how you choose to translate things because of your defensive posture. Case in point the very first time you threw out that accusation was for a comment at the start of the season that Whelan has pretty much repeated word for word in the past week; that Wigan have zero aspiration of ever competing with the top four, and their only purpose in the EPL is survival. Whelan said it in exactly the same context I did; raising the concern about the total lack of competitive balance in the game. How is that anti-Wigan?

I’d suggest you’ll struggle to find even a couple of examples of me being anti-Wigan when you take things in context. Hell I’ve even defended Wigan in recent weeks from your accusations of greed

Also I take offence at you saying that "blatant untruth's you lot have been spinning", never once have I knowingly or have known anybody who I talk to on this thread lied about anything, we may not be the perfect person you are but I strongly take offence that you label us as liars.

You can hardly deny the accusation. We only have to cast our eye up to your outrageous Trevor Brooking comment to find something that is totally untrue in every way, along with your various conspiracy theories. Those are examples of blatant untruth, be it through ignorance or design. I was assuming the former, and even headed my opening reply with the comment that you seemed to be operating under misapprehensions. Stop being so paranoid.


You’ve misinterpreted the ‘you lot have been spinning to wind each other up’ comment. The ‘you’ wasn’t a reference to this forum at all, rather your footballing cronies whose opinions you quoted. The winding up isn’t the chummy mickey taking that is the cornerstone of sport, it was a reference to the insidious egging-on and firing up of the mob.

I’m sure at some point you’ve heard one of the ‘big lie’ quotes. There are endless variations from countless individuals in politics and the media, ranging from the likes of Lenin and Hitler down to bastions of democracy. The common premise is when a lie gathers enough momentum no amount of truth can stop it. The perception of truth becomes unshakeable when enough people are sold. This is the process I was referencing. The conspiracy theories and Brooking fictions can’t stand up to even the remotest scrutiny, but they are propagating at a frightening rate. I'm just ensuring the facts are on the table.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by zoraster

You’ve misinterpreted the ‘you lot have been spinning to wind each other up’ comment. The ‘you’ wasn’t a reference to this forum at all.

Originally Posted by zoraster

Just because I’m able to offer a few actual facts to balance some of the blatant untruths you lot have been spinning to wind each other up doesn’t mean I’m anti-Wigan.

There is NO misinterpretation there, you cleary state "blatant untruths you lot have been spinning to wind each other up" unless that is the "football cronies" I quote come on here but I highly doubt it, you meant people who post on this thread and have tried to back track on your statement.

By the way Whelan has stated on many occasions his aim is to secure Wigan in the Premiership and then make a push for Europe, even this week in the local papers (best scan them and post on here as don't want to be labelled a liar again ) his aim was to do what Bolton have done over the last few season's.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by zoraster

The winding up isn’t the chummy mickey taking that is the cornerstone of sport, it was a reference to the insidious egging-on and firing up of the mob.

By the way if it wasn't "chummy mickey taking" then ask me would people still talk to me or each other ? Highly doubt it, I've even known people on this thread for years actually even before I ever posted on here, I even correspond with people on here other than posting messages and anything to do with online so please don't make asumptions on something you know nothing about.

I even do favours for people on here that if I was an ass 1) I wouldn't do and 2) Costs me money but have refused any payment but do it out of friendship and would do the same thing for anybody if they wanted and would certainly not do them if I felt I was on the end of anything but friendly "mickey taking", so I think your totaly wrong in your assumptions of what happens on here but I highly doubt you would admit it as come to think of it your the only one on here who never admits your wrong, end of discussion have a nice day as our friends across the pond would say.

[LFC1892]

I'm going to see what odd's I can get from the bookie, about Gattuso getting a red card in the final.

[LFC1892]

I even do favours for people on here that if I was an ass 1) I wouldn't do and 2) Costs me money but have refused any payment but do it out of friendship and would do the same thing for anybody if they wanted

Thats true.

[LFC1892]

Maybe I can get 25-1 or something....

[bababui]

I overslept and missed the first 2/3 of the West Ham v Bolton match but Tevez is showing again why he is one of the worlds best players.