Anyone still not purchased yet...

[chowbeng]

I know nuts about baseball, never seen a game, never touch a baseball or come anywhere near a baseball park. All I know about baseball comes from playing OOTP. First version I played is v2.

Why I didn't buy 2007.

1. Basically 2006 is a huge disappointment and felt really cheated. I know I was kinda of hasty to preorder it but if I repeat the mistake, I am really an idiot. OOTP2006 is really quite terrible and I am not too sure SI can sort it out in a year.

2. I also do not like the idea of paying differently in euros and usd. I "overpaid" quite a bit for the 2006 version.

3. You shot yourself with the demo. I am not complaining about the length of the demo but the adverts. But ideally, it's not unreasonable to have a demo of one full season including spring training and off season.

I don't understand the deal about roster, previous versions of OOTP never came with rosters. So, it's kinda of strange to use it as a reason.

I am primarily a football person (the round one!) and had played CM right from CM96. Overall, I think my enjoyment of SI games had gone downwards. I still do enjoy FM but it isn't half as addictive as it used to be. I think FM would do well to "steal" some ideas from OOTP such as frictional leagues and the more unpredictable player development.

Quite frankly, the root of problem is that the game itself isn't quite good enough to warrent a purchase.

*EDITED*
An afterthought: I don't think I would purchase the game this time round.
For me there are two important issues to purchase the game.
1) Gameplay, stats issues. (I think it's sort of ok)
2) CATO issues, certainly would upped my interest if it's improved on.(I mean really IMPROVED on)

[bababui]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Well, if you alter the league structure from what it was historically, then it's no longer a historical league, strictly speaking. It's a historical-fictional hybrid, which is a different animal from a purely historical league.

This is not to say however that OOTP shouldn't make such historical-fictional hybrids easier to create and run...

It would only be fictional in that all the teams would be in a single league..everything else would be historical including historic rookies. The idea is to be able to lay against all the greats using one team.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I would much rather have a game that allows me to play it the way I want to play it. This hurts online leagues as well, because anybody with fewer than 32 owners has to let the computer take over some of the teams, which defeats much of the purpose of online leagues. And it's basically worthless for any of us who want to recreate football history.

I know what the next argument's going to be: you can't customize Worldwide Soccer Manager either and it's by far the best text-based sim out there. Well, that's true, but I'd still say there's a good deal of "customization" in that you have so many teams and leagues to choose from that you can still play your own game, more or less. If you want to play the current MLS and nothing else, you can do that. If you want to do an English league where you start with a lower-level team and try to push them into the Premiere League, you can do that too. If you're not into those particular sizes and shapes, you've got different ones from Italy, Brazil, France, Spain, Germany, Mexico, and so on and so forth. About the only thing you can't really do is play the game in God Mode and that's why I don't play it, but that's a relatively small thing.

FOF gives you nothing about that. I can't even make a league that started after the 1988 strike unless I want to pretend that the league magically expanded into 32 teams overnight. Want to try an alternate universe where the USFL stays? You're SOL unless you want to pretend that the NFL sucked it up and expanded into 32 teams. Forget about the WLAF or the current WFL or especially the old-skool WFL of the 70s. Forget about running an ultra-competitive 1960s NFL/AFL league either - even a 32 team one - because the game doesn't even come with a schedule editor and thus you're going to have to go in yourself if you want to remove any interleague games. Really, in essence you can forget about any non-32 team league because "32 teams works for football". I am *so* glad that OOTP and for that matter Puresim and Gary Gorski's new basketball game and, heck, even Baseball Mogul - jeez, even non-career sims like Strat-o-Matic and APBA and Diamond Mind Baseball - aren't so arrogant as to assume that all any of their fans would ever want to do is play a recreation of the 2006 season.

It amazes me that FOF 2001 was actually a better game in this regard, since you started with fewer teams and could expand to more if you wanted to. I don't think I've ever seen a game like this actually take a step backward. FOF *badly* needs another text-based football sim out there so that people can compare and contrast and either move to the new game or push Jim Gindin to improve the old one.

There's no argument from me, FOF works as advertised and *I* could care less about anything else but real life 2007 style football. You are not the only one who would like league customization, but obviously it's not on Jim's important list of features and not who he wants to target for now.

The game itself has excellent AI, a bevy of stats and the ability to call your own plays if you so choose - if not, you can rattle off season after season with ease, it's SIMPLE and I love it. No drop downs and clutter, just a simple straightfoward design. If he ever gets 2D into his game, I'll be in Front Page Sports heaven.

Which brings me to ootp and why I still like the simplicity of 6.5 no matter how good 2007 is. I've considered checking out Baseball Mogul and Puresim again or just playing 6.51 because I just like the ease and layout of the game. I want to fire up a current MLB copy league with real players and ootp is just getting too customizable and confusing for my tastes - in fact, this is probably the last version of ootp I buy.

Could just be me getting older and lazier too.

We do bitch and moan about FOF too and most over there compliment games such as ootp, EHM, and DDS Baseketball... say what you will, but it's FAR from a near sighted forum.

[czar21]

Originally Posted by Bears5122

I agree. I think many people learned their lesson last year with that. But if you ask around to people who have purchased the game in the past and haven't for this version, I'd bet that rosters is one of the biggest reasons.

Maybe that means Markus should make roster building easier, or the makers should be more careful with who they give early copies to. Whatever the case is, it's significantly hurting their sales whether they can control it or not.

Exactly. I don't see why people have such a big problem with the group of us that have chosen not to purchase this year for that reason. Retorts such as "Well, they didn't promise rosters, so that's a stupid reason!" or "Make your own rosters!"

Look, the reason I played OOTP in the past was because of the community generated rosters. Cool. I got bit last year with 2006 and (in my mind) wasted money on a game I didn't (nor still haven't) gotten into nearly as much as OOTP 5, 6, 6.5. Part of it was the complexity issue, part of it was the lack of rosters (IIRC, there weren't any full rosters released until the very end of the season-- "full" being defined as ML, AAA, AA, and some form of A).

It's completely and totally our perogative not to purchase the game. We might be missing out on a very good game, but I doubt that for the reason that I have NEVER been able to play with fictional leagues. Ever. I know that. And I'm OK with that. But some of you, please, stop with this "your loss" righteous talk and understand that we're not being selfish holdouts, we're just not going to sink money into a game we can't get into.

Marc and Markus, it's a fantastic game. Kudos on the work you've put in not only this year, but in the previous iterations. I have logged countless hours (especially passing the time at work with 6.5). However, and I've mentioned this before-- I'm a bit disappointed that the beta, or roster-building tools weren't leaked to a) more modders or b) modders who are trusted in the community with a prior track record. It seems like the roster set creation lie on the same group of people as it did last year, during the beginning of the big OOTP roster failures. Personally, I have been very turned off by some of the comments by modders, including "Oh, well, if you are going to whine, I'm not distributing these rosters!" It makes some come off as petty, childish and immature, and while some of the complainers are equally at fault, modders must understand that they are going to run into criticism. I did with my Hardball 5 rosters, but I was not reviled by the community because I kept status updates and kept a good rapport with the upstanding members of the community while not being turned off by the rotten apples. Granted, I wasn't given exclusive access to the game beforehand, but I think the same logic applies.

I don't know if I'll buy 2007 at this point-- it's been over a month and it appears we might be waiting another month+ for final versions of the rosters. No problem with the modders who are working on it now (Erich, jackflash, etc.) and I and 99% of the community appreciate their time and effort, but the more time that passes, the less excited about the game I grow. And don't slander me, that's just how it goes-- I'm not sitting here and pointing fingers, crying like a three year-old. If SI wants to get more people back for 2008, I highly recommend getting tools, spreadsheets, etc. out way back in November/December-- and not just to a few roster builders, but communities of them. That way, we won't have this issue that I think is hurting sales more than people think hovering overhead like the 2006 and 2007 versions.

[zekester91]

Originally Posted by czar21

If SI wants to get more people back for 2008, I highly recommend getting tools, spreadsheets, etc. out way back in November/December-- and not just to a few roster builders, but communities of them. That way, we won't have this issue that I think is hurting sales more than people think hovering overhead like the 2006 and 2007 versions.

Unless there is another complete re-write and the 2007 inport into 2008 as nicely as 2006 did to 2007 the communities have the tools now to start making 2008 rosters. Heck with cubbies real rosters from last year there was what 1 problem moving to this years version and that had a quick work around and was supposly fixed in the first patch. The tools to make roster sets and keep them updated has been and will continue to be out there. The real problem is that most of the deticated comutity left after 2006 and for some reason no-one has yet to fill the void. I have'nt been following the real roster problem, but from the snipits I've caught it seems that they are trying to please everyone by making them "perfect" or trying to make the scale to big by doing full minors.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by zekester91

trying to make the scale to big by doing full minors.

Bingo, there is the problem. Why not put out a MLB set (40 man roster) plus teams top 10 or so prospects first? This would get the set down to a very manageable number of players and would satisfy most gamers.

Once this is out then move on to "full minors" though I've never really understood the need for it. I mean who cares about the Cubs A ball second baseman that will never even make it to AA (unless of course he happens to be your real life cousin)?

[zekester91]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Bingo, there is the problem. Why not put out a MLB set (40 man roster) plus teams top 10 or so prospects first? This would get the set down to a very manageable number of players and would satisfy most gamers.

Once this is out then move on to "full minors" though I've never really understood the need for it. I mean who cares about the Cubs A ball second baseman that will never even make it to AA (unless of course he happens to be your real life cousin)?

This is ofcourse where 6.5 and before had the big advantage, with ghost players no-one worried about creating full minors it was just 40 man rosters and a couple of prospects from the top magazines/website. Another problem is that everyone wants the contracts as close as possible, which is hard data to find.

The people doing the rosters need to start small and build from there, first iteration needs to be something that is managable and doesn't get boged down into a lot of details. If people want they can fix contracts, slight rating problem.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by zekester91

This is ofcourse where 6.5 and before had the big advantage, with ghost players no-one worried about creating full minors it was just 40 man rosters and a couple of prospects from the top magazines/website. Another problem is that everyone wants the contracts as close as possible, which is hard data to find.

Exactly and nobody complained.

Of course now we hold up a perfectly usable set so we don't have to listen to people complain that short season A isn't complete or that my A ball 2nd baseman from my previous example is under-rated.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by Lee

....and of course those who want rosters can always make them

That's no different from telling someone to go make their own car. Yes, it's theoretically possible, but less than 1% of the game purchasers have the knowledge and about the same percentage have the time.

[robster1225]

There are two roster sets now available in the mods forum. You guys should check em out if your still on the fence.

[ravinhood]

Originally Posted by Bobbo

I'm trying to fight off a Simcity 4 addiction.

Simcity 4??!! Only Steers and Q....ummm girls play Simcity 4. Pick up a MAN's game OOTPBB 2007 you'll be glad yah did.

[Assos]

I still play SimCity, in fact, I can play both at the same time. One on the laptop and one on the desktop.

[AirmenSmith]

Originally Posted by Assos

I still play SimCity, in fact, I can play both at the same time. One on the laptop and one on the desktop.

lol I have played ootp 2007 on my laptop, Draft day baseketball, on my Desktop and while they where simming I was playing Hockey on my 360. I think I have a problem

[phenom]

Originally Posted by AirmenSmith

lol I have played ootp 2007 on my laptop, Draft day baseketball, on my Desktop and while they where simming I was playing Hockey on my 360. I think I have a problem

Are you related to AirmenOmalley?

[zekester91]

Originally Posted by Curtis

That's no different from telling someone to go make their own car. Yes, it's theoretically possible, but less than 1% of the game purchasers have the knowledge and about the same percentage have the time.

How much knowlage is really needed, take Lahman database, inport the 2006 season, then find a site that either has every transation since the either the beging of last year or then end (I don't know when the DB is updated to) or find a site that has opening day rosters and go through each team updating who is on the team and such. Granted getting just opening day 40 man rosters will probly take a few hours and you may need to create a few players (Daisuke Matsuzaka comes to mind). There really isn't much knowlage needed to do it if you set your mind to it. If only 1% have the knowlage then we really really need to beef up the school system, cause this really isn't that hard. Time consuming maybe, hard no.

[phenom]

Originally Posted by zekester91

How much knowlage is really needed, take Lahman database, inport the 2006 season, then find a site that either has every transation since the either the beging of last year or then end (I don't know when the DB is updated to) or find a site that has opening day rosters and go through each team updating who is on the team and such. Granted getting just opening day 40 man rosters will probly take a few hours and you may need to create a few players (Daisuke Matsuzaka comes to mind). There really isn't much knowlage needed to do it if you set your mind to it. If only 1% have the knowlage then we really really need to beef up the school system, cause this really isn't that hard. Time consuming maybe, hard no.

Lahman doesn't have minor leagues, IIRC.

[Assos]

The question, I have been playing for 4 years now, do you really need all of those Rookie and FSL players?

[phenom]

No, but I'd like to bring up Humberto Sanchez (assuming his surgery goes well).

[zekester91]

Originally Posted by phenom

Lahman doesn't have minor leagues, IIRC.

True, and if you read my post above about starting small and working your way up to getting full minors. putting real minors into this game, or for that matter any game will be a lot of work, and research, But I would also wonder about what type of payoff you get from doing it. IIRC how many of those minor leaguers are going to reach the majors in your game. I'm betting few, is it really worth it to spend hours finding out who plays on the State College Spikes (A), the pirates A team, since 80% of these players will never reach the majors. What would be more usefull might be once you get the Lahman database with opening day rosters would be to go back to the last 5 years worth of drafts and put say the first 5 or 10 rounds(or if your really into it the whole draft) of each years draft class into each teams farm system.

Besides since only 1% of us can handle making real rosters, are the other 99% going to keep thier leaguse playing one day at a time doing a 2007 historical replay or 20 min after these rosters are in there game they are going to become more and more ficinal as they play out/sim games.

[mtw]

1) Very disappointed by OOTP2006.
2) Because of 1, I have been investing my OOTP time exclusively in OOTP 6.5 (still a spectacular game) and Catobase.
3) Have not sen a lot of info about the successes/problems of importing OOTP 6.5 leagues into OOTP2007.
4) Have not seen any more info about Catobase importing tool since the announcement about the possibility of its development.
5) Haven't looked hard through this forum to see if this has changed, but as a solo player, I like to take control of two teams in my leagues, one each in AL and NL. This is very easy in 6.5 since human teams are always actively human managed--all you do is click on the team and you can manage them. OOTP2006 would only let you have active control of one team at a time. If you wanted to manage another "human-controlled" team, it required that you go into the league management to give up control of the team you were currently actively managing to take control of the second team. Very cumbersome and very annoying.

Because of the terrific value I got with each version until OOTP2006, I would chalk it up as a mulligan, and buy 2007 assuming issues 3, 4 and 5 successfully resolved.