4th round steal

[Scoman]

The Moss trade was great for the Raiders,Moss had wore out is welcome in Raider land,who knows maybe he can grow up and come back to his form of 3 or 4 years ago with the Pats. But he proved to never be more than average with the Raiders,making all that money,so they really had no choice but to move him.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by magnet

Saying that Branch would have pushed NE over Indy is speculation at best. I don't see why it was an arrogant trade. Anything after that I agree with.

Remember it was a dropped pass in a key 4th quarter drive that cost the Pats..if I remember correctly..a pass that would have normally gone Branches way.

I think it was arrogant because the Pat braintrust thought that they could cast away a key player and not have it hurt them down the road.

[USN Squid]

Originally Posted by bababui

Its the % of cap room he takes up that makes this trade very risky.

Randy Moss reportedly accepted a one-year deal worth only $3 million, with $2 million in incentives.
A stunner. Moss was scheduled to make nearly $10 million from the Raiders, but he accepted the drastic paycut to play for a winner. Like the rest of the Patriots receiver group, Moss's future with New England is hardly guaranteed past this year.

[QuestGAV]

Originally Posted by bababui

Remember it was a dropped pass in a key 4th quarter drive that cost the Pats..if I remember correctly..a pass that would have normally gone Branches way.

I think it was arrogant because the Pat braintrust thought that they could cast away a key player and not have it hurt them down the road.

They didn't cast Branch away, he refused to play for them because they wouldn't pay him far more than he's worth. Deion is a nice player who was productive for the Pats. Giving him the money he was asking for would have been stupid and counterproductive, especially when they got a 1st round pick in return that they used to bolster the depth of their secondary, the real reason they lost to Indy. Since you just suggested that they use the petty cash they will spend on Moss to upgrade the defense, you ought to really be in favor of flipping an above average WR for real defensive talent.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by Astros33Resurrected

I wonder how the Raiders will use him. They already have Rhodes and Jordan, neither are that good, but I'm worried Bush wont get enough carries. Theres also the problem that if he does get a majority of the carries, he won't have anywhere to go. Their offensive line is not too good.

I still think it will be a full season before he is up to 100% ... I think you might see some flashes of his talent by the end of the year. Rhodes should be the #1 back there this year.

Bush's work ethic and his attitude are top notch. He never complained once here about taking a back seat to Brohm. He did whatever was asked of him and even considered playing safety at one point. He has zero negative character issues.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by USN Squid

Are you on drugs? How exactly is 3 championships in this decade + an AFC championship visit last year (where I could have lined up at WR) desperation time?

Oh, and I have two words for your Randy Moss attitude concerns:

COREY DILLON.

Well you could've caught those passes that googly eyes missed for sure.

[USN Squid]

Originally Posted by mh2365

Well you could've caught those passes that googly eyes missed for sure.

should be renamed to :caldwell:

[mrskippy]

In terms Jordan, Rhodes, and Bush ... I think the Raiders will try to deal Jordan for someone to bolster their OL. Just a hunch.

If the Raiders do what I think they are doing, they could have a legitimate worst-to-first type run.

The loss of Moss gives them $20 million. Trading Jordan could give them a bit more. One, maybe two more guys on the OL could be a tremendous help for the Raiders.

The Raiders picked up two WRs in the draft, so they should be able to round out their backup core there. They have a pretty tight WR core as it is: Porter, Curry, Gabriel, Whitted, Morant, Buchanon, and now Williams. I think they could be fairly solid. The key will be have speedy wide receivers down the road, to pair with Russell's ability to throw long.

Back to RBs ... they also have Crockett ... their short yardage/goal line specialist.

Their QBs include Andrew Walter, Josh Booty, and some guy named Jeff Otis. They now add McCown and Russell to that mix. I'm guessing that you end up with McCown, Walter, and Russell as the QBs they'll carry. And, one of the others is either cut or traded. We'll see.

It will be an interesting season.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by USN Squid

should be renamed to :caldwell:

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by mh2365

Hmm the Topic was about Michael Bush .... Bush should be ready to go by camp from the foot injury (or at least that's what the L'ville docs have been saying) .... If he returns to form then the Raiders got a top 10 player in the 4th round.

The sad thing is that you actually believe the 'top ten' portion of your post. Come one, mh, there's reason in all things.

[mh2365]

Well let's start off with the fact that he never played running back until he showed up at college

2003 66 carries, 366 yards and 6 touchdowns, 17 receptions for 240 yds and a td, 2 td passes

2004 132 carries for 734 yds and 7 TDs, 11 recptions for 155 yds, and a TD pass all while splitting time with Eric Shelton

2005 205 carries for 1143 yds and led the country with 23 TD's, 21 catches for 253 yds and another TD.

2006 17 carries for 128 yds and 3 TD's in one half.


He would of had a absolute monster year last year at Louisville and absolutely would have been a top 10 pick. He was listed on all the boards as a first rounder after 2005. So please explain where the lack of reason is?

Point out a flaw? You are talking about a guy who never played RB before college and he dominated at it.

[marc]

Originally Posted by mh2365

Well let's start off with the fact that he never played running back until he showed up at college

2003 66 carries, 366 yards and 6 touchdowns, 17 receptions for 240 yds and a td, 2 td passes

2004 132 carries for 734 yds and 7 TDs, 11 recptions for 155 yds, and a TD pass all while splitting time with Eric Shelton

2005 205 carries for 1143 yds and led the country with 23 TD's, 21 catches for 253 yds and another TD.

2006 17 carries for 128 yds and 3 TD's in one half.


He would of had a absolute monster year last year at Louisville and absolutely would have been a top 10 pick. He was listed on all the boards as a first rounder after 2005. So please explain where the lack of reason is?

Point out a flaw? You are talking about a guy who never played RB before college and he dominated at it.

LOL the "he didn't play RB before college" excuse is good for Bush but not for Ginn??? I'd be here all night if I wanted to point out all the contradictions in your Bush statements vs. the comments you've made on Ginn.

PURE COMEDY, and the funny thing is, I'm the homer! LOL

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by marc

LOL the "he didn't play RB before college" excuse is good for Bush but not for Ginn??? I'd be here all night if I wanted to point out all the contradictions in your Bush statements vs. the comments you've made on Ginn.

PURE COMEDY, and the funny thing is, I'm the homer! LOL

Wait, how can you be a home, marc? You were talking about two OSU WR?

Funny stuff, but mh, the fact is whether or not he WOULD have been a top ten is irrelevant. He wasn't and you saying the Raiders got a top ten pick at whatever number he was is pure hilarity.

I see Ron Dayne when I look at Bush.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by marc

LOL the "he didn't play RB before college" excuse is good for Bush but not for Ginn??? I'd be here all night if I wanted to point out all the contradictions in your Bush statements vs. the comments you've made on Ginn.

PURE COMEDY, and the funny thing is, I'm the homer! LOL

Show me where I said Ginn was a bad WR because he hadn't played it for a long time. As far as I remember he was a WR/CB coming out of HS. So he did play WR before coming to college.

My comments are

1) Gonzalez was better at the WR position than Ginn and I still think that

2) Bush had never played RB before going to college .. still true but Ginn had played WR in HS so how is it comedy?

3) as far as being a homer .. Louisville is about 5th or 6th on teams I root for so????

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Wait, how can you be a home, marc? You were talking about two OSU WR?

Funny stuff, but mh, the fact is whether or not he WOULD have been a top ten is irrelevant. He wasn't and you saying the Raiders got a top ten pick at whatever number he was is pure hilarity.

I see Ron Dayne when I look at Bush.

He wasn't that is true .. but to say he wouldn't have been a top 10 pick if he stayed healthy isn't exactly true either .. we won't know but I'd be willing to bet that in the future when you look at best RB's of this draft it will be

1) Michael Bush

2) Marshawn Lynch


Peterson won't be on the list. If you see Ron Dayne then you never saw Bush play and you are basing it on his weight. Bush is faster than Dayne, has about 2000x the work ethic that Dayne does and can actually catch a pass.

Ron Dayne priceless. Name 1 thing other than weight as to why he reminds you of Dayne ... anything???

[Astros33Resurrected]

Originally Posted by mh2365

He wasn't that is true .. but to say he wouldn't have been a top 10 pick if he stayed healthy isn't exactly true either .. we won't know but I'd be willing to bet that in the future when you look at best RB's of this draft it will be

1) Michael Bush

2) Marshawn Lynch


Peterson won't be on the list. If you see Ron Dayne then you never saw Bush play and you are basing it on his weight. Bush is faster than Dayne, has about 2000x the work ethic that Dayne does and can actually catch a pass.

Ron Dayne priceless. Name 1 thing other than weight as to why he reminds you of Dayne ... anything???

From the video I saw, he reminded me alot of Priest Holmes.

[marc]

Originally Posted by mh2365

Show me where I said Ginn was a bad WR because he hadn't played it for a long time. As far as I remember he was a WR/CB coming out of HS. So he did play WR before coming to college.

He played QB in High School. He was maybe listed as a WR/CB due to the fact that everyone knew he wasn't a D1 caliber QB. Glenville's offense that year was basically, snap the ball to Ginn out of the shotgun and let him run with it.

He did catch about 15-20 balls, but his primary position was QB, they would flank him out on some trick plays or to go deep or something.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by mh2365

Ron Dayne priceless. Name 1 thing other than weight as to why he reminds you of Dayne ... anything???

His potential usage at the pro level......................but I'll drop it at this point--in your mind, there's never even the possibility that you could be wrong. What's the point? I'll let marc continue to spar with you instead.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by marc

He played QB in High School. He was maybe listed as a WR/CB due to the fact that everyone knew he wasn't a D1 caliber QB. Glenville's offense that year was basically, snap the ball to Ginn out of the shotgun and let him run with it.

He did catch about 15-20 balls, but his primary position was QB, they would flank him out on some trick plays or to go deep or something.

Interesting I did not know that. It makes me think more of him as a potential pro WR since he is still learning the position. Bush was a straight QB never played anything else. He went to Louisville expecting to play QB, but then Brohm stayed home. When Brohm announced he would stay in Louisville there was a lot of talk around here that OSU was offering Bush a chance to play QB if he left but he stayed and switched to RB.

His freshman year here they lined him up like they used to do slash, sometimes at QB, WR, TE and RB.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

His potential usage at the pro level......................but I'll drop it at this point--in your mind, there's never even the possibility that you could be wrong. What's the point? I'll let marc continue to spar with you instead.

I've been wrong about a lot of things but this I'm not. You made an absurd statement comparing him to Ron Dayne without any knowledge of what type of player Bush is. You based it solely on his weight.

It would be tough to use a player who can carry the ball 25 times, catch as well as a WR and throw the ball as well as a QB. Time will tell. Maybe he never recovers from the broken leg who knows.