Initial Dispersal Draft AI Weakness

Cusefan95 · 03-06-2003, 02:24 PM

I have only run 2 tests, but I set up a fictional league, with the disperal draft.

After rounds 20-25, I started to sort by talent, and there were loads of 18-22 years olds with B/B/G or G/B/B talent. I was able to assemble a minor leagues like no other in the history of baseball. After losing in the first year, I have gone on to win the division 9 straight years after that. All those young guys are maturing into All-Stars and End of Season Award Winners.

I would think the AI would start picking those guys out earlier than they are in the dispersal draft. In one league, I drafted 25 major league ready players, after that, I only needed minor leaguers, and so starting in round 26 I sorted by talent, and all these young studs were still there, and once again I amassed a minor league system that was so far and beyond any of the computer teams, it was just ridiculous.

asamford · 03-06-2003, 02:36 PM

i haven't confirmed this is a problem myself, but if it is, the AI should definitely be tweaked.... you do have the draft set on "career' and not "replay" right??

otherwise, good idea!

:P

Cusefan95 · 03-06-2003, 02:44 PM

Yes, it is set to career asamford.

Erithtotl · 03-06-2003, 02:48 PM

I have too noticed your issue. Though I don't think the AI should start poaching prospects before its got a full ML roster, after that yes it should concentrate on filling its minor leagues.

The thing about going for prospects early like you did your first time is that I have twice played a league where I lost in the first season and got fired, meaning that I never got to take advantage of all those wonderful prospects I'd horded.

Cusefan95 · 03-06-2003, 02:52 PM

I don't think the AI should just wait until round 26. Maybe each team should be analysing its own team after every round of the draft. When it recognizes it is not going to be very successful right away, then the AI should be looking for prospects.

If it waits for round 26, then you can simply go into the prospect pool in round 20, pick up the best 6 prospects in the league, and then fill out your roster with guys who are going to be backups anyways in rounds 26-30.

There really should be more dynamics to this process for the AI teams.

A.J. Holz · 03-06-2003, 02:54 PM

I had the exact same results as Cusefan95 in a fictional career draft for a solo league. Post-draft, the Top Minor League Systems report showed my team with 303 (!) points, next-best was around 90 or so. I cleaned house, mainly because I was able to stock up on 4 & 5-star A and AA talent after the first 25 or so rounds of the draft.

I was able to populate a full major league roster as well during this draft, so it's not like I was sacrificing ML talent for prospects. The ML team is currently in first place in their first season.

I'm not complaining

but it hardly seems fair to the poor AI teams. At least this way I might actually guide the Cubs to a World Series win in a few years.

Another Mike D · 03-06-2003, 03:38 PM

I have seen this as well, the computer is taking mediocre and subpar major leaguers before it touches the prospects. I have it set to career and by round 20 or so, I can still pick from the top of the prospect list while they are still picking the likes of Scott Erickson and Kevin Cash.

I think this is related to the trading issue that people were talking about. I saw it too before the update, that you could offer #1,2,3 on the top 100 list and not even get Kirk Rueter in return. It seems as though the AI just doesn't value prospects. I haven't done another redraft since the patch came out...was this corrected? Since after the patch the AI values prospects in trades, does it now value them in the draft as well?

Cusefan95 · 03-06-2003, 03:53 PM

Yes, I should have added these leagues were pre patch. I have not looked at the game post patch yet, and just got aroundt o writing this up. Maybe this is fixed in 5.01?

evangel · 03-06-2003, 04:06 PM

Not fixed post-patch. I scrapped my career manager league after the patch came out and started over. I had the same experience with regards to the high-talent, low-experience players still being around in the mid 20th rounds.

I guess I would have to say it is a problem that needs some tweaking, but it sure is fun to look at my minor league system and see all of those blue stars floating around!

Spielman · 03-06-2003, 04:46 PM

Yes, this was deinitely not affected by the patch. I just ran an initial draft where the computer was busily picking its backup outfielders while the best prospects on the board were just sitting there.

Starting in round 20, I started grabbing prospects and got #2, #3, #4, #5, #7, and 15 more of the top 100 prospects.

Of course, the game doesn't say that the top 100 prospects were rated by an average scout this year, so I'm assuming your list is rated by YOUR scout... who of course is going to value the same guys he recommended to you during the draft. So in reality, it's probably not quite as bad as it sounds.

Still, the game did a lot better job last year of having the AI teams start picking off the valuable prospects a lot earlier... good prospects often went in the top 10. The earliest I've seen a prospect go to the computer now was a Brilliant/Brilliant/Brilliant/Brilliant shortstop with a defensive rating of A/.990 in the 13th round. Usually they don't start going until the mid 20s in this version.

-Spielman

MizzouRah · 03-06-2003, 04:53 PM

So much for me starting a fictional league tonight with a draft.

In v4, if you picked replay when you drafted, it would pick the top players reguardless of talent - if you choose career, it would look at age and talent as well. I was hoping it was still the same in v5.

Maybe some tweaking in a patch?

Todd

Beach Boy · 03-06-2003, 05:11 PM

I had the same experience with my solo fictional league. I now have a minor league system rated around 260, with the No. 1, 2 and 3 prospects, while the closest computer-run team is around 130, and most are under 100. And I didn't scrimp on my major leaguers, either. I simply picked sensational prospects instead of so-so bench guys in my later rounds.

I know this needs to be fixed. But I'm so ecstatic at having all those great prospects waiting to develop into All-Stars. Let me just enjoy this little illusion a while longer. I never had it this good with V4.

Phillies1000 · 03-06-2003, 05:19 PM

I have also noticed this problem. I thought maybe it was because I had one of the few legendary scouts, but perhaps it is a more widespread problem with the AI. My farm system has over 300 points with the next nearest being 90. I PBP games so I guess by the time I get to enjoy my minor league talent, the final edition of the rosters will be out and I'll be anxious to play with them

fasteddie_21 · 03-06-2003, 06:33 PM

Bump for one of the 400 folks to see this....maybe in the next patch???

asamford · 03-07-2003, 02:24 AM

ok, just went through a fictional draft, and noticed the AI picked a few stud prospects early on, but in the later rounds would always take a single yellow star even over a 4.5 blue star. I solved the problem by drafting for the AI and just ranking by stars and going down the list, so the young talent would be divided up and I wouldn't have an extra unfair advantage.

MJohnson · 03-07-2003, 02:42 AM

for the time being, you could always have the AI draft for every team including yours so everyone is at the same 'disadvantage'

ghulten · 03-07-2003, 02:43 AM

Workaround: after round 18-20, just let the computer take over drafting for everyone. Prospects get spread around very evenly.

03-06-2003, 02:54 PM	#6
A.J. Holz All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 650	I had the exact same results as Cusefan95 in a fictional career draft for a solo league. Post-draft, the Top Minor League Systems report showed my team with 303 (!) points, next-best was around 90 or so. I cleaned house, mainly because I was able to stock up on 4 & 5-star A and AA talent after the first 25 or so rounds of the draft. I was able to populate a full major league roster as well during this draft, so it's not like I was sacrificing ML talent for prospects. The ML team is currently in first place in their first season. I'm not complaining but it hardly seems fair to the poor AI teams. At least this way I might actually guide the Cubs to a World Series win in a few years. __________________ NABA - Tijuana Toros / Commish ORB - Oakland Athletics (former owner) MBBA - Seattle Storm JOBL - Grand Forks Varmints (former owner) FIBB - Chicago Fire TMBU - Tulsa Tomcats (former owner) ACL - Oakland A's (former owner) ACB - Rockville Superbas

03-06-2003, 03:53 PM	#8
Cusefan95 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Manchester, CT Posts: 109	Yes, I should have added these leagues were pre patch. I have not looked at the game post patch yet, and just got aroundt o writing this up. Maybe this is fixed in 5.01? __________________ 81-78 2003 NCAA Division 1-A Men's Basketball Champions

03-06-2003, 04:46 PM	#10
Spielman All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,668	Yes, this was deinitely not affected by the patch. I just ran an initial draft where the computer was busily picking its backup outfielders while the best prospects on the board were just sitting there. Starting in round 20, I started grabbing prospects and got #2, #3, #4, #5, #7, and 15 more of the top 100 prospects. Of course, the game doesn't say that the top 100 prospects were rated by an average scout this year, so I'm assuming your list is rated by YOUR scout... who of course is going to value the same guys he recommended to you during the draft. So in reality, it's probably not quite as bad as it sounds. Still, the game did a lot better job last year of having the AI teams start picking off the valuable prospects a lot earlier... good prospects often went in the top 10. The earliest I've seen a prospect go to the computer now was a Brilliant/Brilliant/Brilliant/Brilliant shortstop with a defensive rating of A/.990 in the 13th round. Usually they don't start going until the mid 20s in this version. -Spielman __________________ Spielman was at one time the smartest person on these boards. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...martest+Person I don't believe in AnotherAlias.

03-06-2003, 05:19 PM	#13
Phillies1000 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA (originally from NJ) Posts: 49	I have also noticed this problem. I thought maybe it was because I had one of the few legendary scouts, but perhaps it is a more widespread problem with the AI. My farm system has over 300 points with the next nearest being 90. I PBP games so I guess by the time I get to enjoy my minor league talent, the final edition of the rosters will be out and I'll be anxious to play with them __________________ Phillies going all the way!

03-06-2003, 06:33 PM	#14
fasteddie_21 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 220	Bump for one of the 400 folks to see this....maybe in the next patch??? __________________ "That wasn't crying, Felix. That was a warning!"

03-06-2003, 02:24 PM	#1
Cusefan95 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Manchester, CT Posts: 109	Initial Dispersal Draft AI Weakness I have only run 2 tests, but I set up a fictional league, with the disperal draft. After rounds 20-25, I started to sort by talent, and there were loads of 18-22 years olds with B/B/G or G/B/B talent. I was able to assemble a minor leagues like no other in the history of baseball. After losing in the first year, I have gone on to win the division 9 straight years after that. All those young guys are maturing into All-Stars and End of Season Award Winners. I would think the AI would start picking those guys out earlier than they are in the dispersal draft. In one league, I drafted 25 major league ready players, after that, I only needed minor leaguers, and so starting in round 26 I sorted by talent, and all these young studs were still there, and once again I amassed a minor league system that was so far and beyond any of the computer teams, it was just ridiculous. __________________ 81-78 2003 NCAA Division 1-A Men's Basketball Champions

03-06-2003, 02:36 PM	#2
asamford Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Snellville, Georgia Posts: 1,769	i haven't confirmed this is a problem myself, but if it is, the AI should definitely be tweaked.... you do have the draft set on "career' and not "replay" right?? otherwise, good idea! :P

03-06-2003, 02:44 PM	#3
Cusefan95 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Manchester, CT Posts: 109	Yes, it is set to career asamford. __________________ 81-78 2003 NCAA Division 1-A Men's Basketball Champions

03-06-2003, 02:48 PM	#4
Erithtotl Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 330	I have too noticed your issue. Though I don't think the AI should start poaching prospects before its got a full ML roster, after that yes it should concentrate on filling its minor leagues. The thing about going for prospects early like you did your first time is that I have twice played a league where I lost in the first season and got fired, meaning that I never got to take advantage of all those wonderful prospects I'd horded.

03-06-2003, 02:52 PM	#5
Cusefan95 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Manchester, CT Posts: 109	I don't think the AI should just wait until round 26. Maybe each team should be analysing its own team after every round of the draft. When it recognizes it is not going to be very successful right away, then the AI should be looking for prospects. If it waits for round 26, then you can simply go into the prospect pool in round 20, pick up the best 6 prospects in the league, and then fill out your roster with guys who are going to be backups anyways in rounds 26-30. There really should be more dynamics to this process for the AI teams. __________________ 81-78 2003 NCAA Division 1-A Men's Basketball Champions

03-06-2003, 03:38 PM	#7
Another Mike D All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: atl Posts: 891	I have seen this as well, the computer is taking mediocre and subpar major leaguers before it touches the prospects. I have it set to career and by round 20 or so, I can still pick from the top of the prospect list while they are still picking the likes of Scott Erickson and Kevin Cash. I think this is related to the trading issue that people were talking about. I saw it too before the update, that you could offer #1,2,3 on the top 100 list and not even get Kirk Rueter in return. It seems as though the AI just doesn't value prospects. I haven't done another redraft since the patch came out...was this corrected? Since after the patch the AI values prospects in trades, does it now value them in the draft as well?

03-06-2003, 04:06 PM	#9
evangel Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 79	Not fixed post-patch. I scrapped my career manager league after the patch came out and started over. I had the same experience with regards to the high-talent, low-experience players still being around in the mid 20th rounds. I guess I would have to say it is a problem that needs some tweaking, but it sure is fun to look at my minor league system and see all of those blue stars floating around!

03-06-2003, 04:53 PM	#11
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Troy, Mo Posts: 6,266	So much for me starting a fictional league tonight with a draft. In v4, if you picked replay when you drafted, it would pick the top players reguardless of talent - if you choose career, it would look at age and talent as well. I was hoping it was still the same in v5. Maybe some tweaking in a patch? Todd

03-06-2003, 05:11 PM	#12
Beach Boy Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, Va. Posts: 49	I had the same experience with my solo fictional league. I now have a minor league system rated around 260, with the No. 1, 2 and 3 prospects, while the closest computer-run team is around 130, and most are under 100. And I didn't scrimp on my major leaguers, either. I simply picked sensational prospects instead of so-so bench guys in my later rounds. I know this needs to be fixed. But I'm so ecstatic at having all those great prospects waiting to develop into All-Stars. Let me just enjoy this little illusion a while longer. I never had it this good with V4.

03-07-2003, 02:24 AM	#15
asamford Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Snellville, Georgia Posts: 1,769	ok, just went through a fictional draft, and noticed the AI picked a few stud prospects early on, but in the later rounds would always take a single yellow star even over a 4.5 blue star. I solved the problem by drafting for the AI and just ranking by stars and going down the list, so the young talent would be divided up and I wouldn't have an extra unfair advantage.

03-07-2003, 02:42 AM	#16
MJohnson Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: under an overpass Posts: 459	for the time being, you could always have the AI draft for every team including yours so everyone is at the same 'disadvantage'

03-07-2003, 02:43 AM	#17
ghulten Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 135	Workaround: after round 18-20, just let the computer take over drafting for everyone. Prospects get spread around very evenly.