My first day impression: the interface still sucks

[Sven Draconian]

Originally Posted by APujols5

Sure the interface was a bit easier and the learning curve was easier in 6.5 but at the same time 6.5 was no better than Baseball Mogul... So thank god for the changes made

Thats one of the dumbest comments ever uttered on this board. 6.5 was LIGHTYEARS ahead of Mogul, and still is. Hell, 6.5 was better than this years Mogul.

Its not like OOTP just became good, its always been good. 2007 added a lot of cool features for sure, a better engine and more realsitic gameplay, but its not like I was playing strat-o-matic before.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

Thats one of the dumbest comments ever uttered on this board. 6.5 was LIGHTYEARS ahead of Mogul, and still is. Hell, 6.5 was better than this years Mogul.

Its not like OOTP just became good, its always been good. 2007 added a lot of cool features for sure, a better engine and more realsitic gameplay, but its not like I was playing strat-o-matic before.

Agreed. I actually laughed out loud at his comment.

[bp_]

Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

Thats one of the dumbest comments ever uttered on this board.

How long have you been reading the posts on this board?

Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

6.5 was LIGHTYEARS ahead of Mogul, and still is.

Gotta agree with you here.

[drprestwood]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

We cant tempt you over?

Well, you may get a sale eventually when some of my online leagues switch over. In every one that has given me a choice, I've voted to continue with 6.5 for the time being.

I don't play single player. I really don't have the time, honestly - I work 60 hours a week and have a lot of other commitments. So, I'm all about spending what little time I have for multiplayer leagues with software that allows me to easily navigate through screens with simple menus.

I'm the kind of guy who customizes my Firefox browser to ensure that everything I need is easy to access and not buried way down in menus. One of the reasons OOTP6/6.5 was so great is that you could make your experience as shallow or as in-depth as you liked because it was so easy to navigate. I don't find that with the newer version.

Let me simplify - I want to be able to get to almost any page within the game in 2 clicks or less. Less clicks = always good.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by rasnell

As you get beyond the learning curve and begin to develop your own style of play, here are some key items that I think immensely improved the interface from OOTP 2006 to 2007:

Setting bookmarks and seeing that the game automatically assigns a shortcut key to those view really allows you to jump to exactly the places you want to be.

This was in 2006. In fact, it was done better in 2006.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm also having a problem just going through my players - the arrow buttons allow me to scroll through players without coming back out to the main screen, which is nice, but if I do something with a particular player, those arrow buttons go away and I end up either having to back all the way out to the main screen to get to the next player I want or, if I've looked at too many players to make backing out a clickfest, it's just faster to start all over at the transaction/roster screen. That's not good planning either way.

Another thing that worked in 2006 that was broken (apparently by popular demand) in 2007.

Originally Posted by yajeflow

6.5 fanbois all remind me of old-timers that hated "those darned horseless carriages!"

there shouldn't even BE a 2008 version. no need. this one is just right. finally.

Wrong on so many levels. 2007 is a minor improvement on 2006, but this game has a LONG way to go and many areas in which it needs to improve.

And about those horses… Let's say you're living in 1901. A horse is less expensive to buy, less expensive to maintain, less expensive (maybe even free) to feed. It travels over rougher terrain, not getting stuck in potholes or ditches. It can cut crosslots and shave time off the trip. It might be slower under ideal conditions, but if you fall asleep while driving the horse will take you back to its barn, whilst the car will pile into a tree and likely kill you (no seat belts). The car is also much likelier to break down, AND when the horse does break down, you just put a bullet in its brain and eat for a month.

By 1920 cars really are the superior mode of travel, but OotPB2007 is the equivalent of that 1901 flitter, not the 1920 sedan.

Originally Posted by Go Tribe

If you want to pinch run, right click on the runner to bring up the list of BATTERS ONLY with base running ratings already listed.

I liked most of your post, but some very good pinch runners are pitchers, so I wouldn't like this part.

[Bears5122]

Originally Posted by drprestwood

The interface and the problems quickly finding what I need and moving from one screen to the next...these are the reasons I haven't purchased OOTP 2007. I bought OOTP3, OOTP4, OOTP5, OOTP6, OOTP6.5, and unfortunately, OOTP 2006. I'm a pretty loyal customer.

Maybe I'm spoiled by the 6.5 interface that makes a lot of sense and is easy to navigate, but I still find it too hard to jet around in 2007.

I'm in the same boat. It's just too much. I know that some on the boards pushed for some over-the-top features to make the game deeper, but it really killed the simplicity that 6.5 had.

For Marc Duffy and others at SI, I'll do my best to explain.

The old OOTP games took a little time to setup, but once you did, you could just boot it up and play. Transactions were easy, lineup changes and such were easy, and for the most part you got to sit and enjoy playing through the games instead of making tedious adjustments at every turn. The past 2 versions have just made it too complicated and heavy for the casual gamer who wants to play a few games after work or sim a season over the weekend. While I'm sure these new versions cater toward the gamer who may have oodles of time to setup and play, it killed the market that played OOTP casually.

I know there is talk that sales are disappointing, and I knew they would be. You basically kicked off a percent of your loyal user base by re-writing the game. It didn't need to be built this way. I'd recommend going back to 6.5 and building it up from that. Dump the SI interface that will never be accepted by the OOTP community. Despite some flaws, 6.5 was a solid game. It needed some AI tweaks, some deeper statistical tracking, but overall was on the right track for being a phenomenal baseball simulator. I know it will never float, but I just don't think I'll ever get back in the OOTP world until it knocks out the overdone, ridiculous crap that was built for the 0.01% of the fans who demanded it.

[ukhotstove]

Imo it would be a massive step back to return to what OOTP 6.5 was like, at the time it was a great game but with the leap forward that OOTP 2007 has taken I’d be one of those that wouldn’t buy a rehash of 6.5 if it went that way. Also I regard myself as part of the OOTP community and accept the SI interface with open arms so with respect have no idea why Bears5122 would say that I will never accept the SI interface, to be honest and I can’t speak for everyone nor can I speak for Marcus but I feel that Marcus took OOTP 6.5 as far as he could without making a rework as he did with 2006 and now 2007 and personally would never have purchased another OOTP if it had just kept on the same lines as OOTP 6.5.
Personally I also don’t understand the difficulties that people are having changing line ups, at the moment I’m running the 1957 season historically using the same line ups that were used in 57 with the Brooklyn Dodgers and also using the same line ups that their opponents used against them, so in the end I’ll have changed the line ups in 154 games which will make it 308 line ups and so far it’s taken me 5 minutes tops doing each game. In fact so quick have I been able to change line ups the next league I’m going to do is the 1964 season and I’ll be changing the line ups in every game because I’ve found it so easy to do.

I was going to drop Marcus a personal note but I’ll put it here, personally I think OOTP 2007 is the best baseball game I’ve played and with Killzone is my favourite computer game, for the first time in ages I feel that I’m getting more than my monies worth and in fact feel I should have paid more so thank you. While I’m at it I also thank every mod who does work on logos, rosters, uniforms and so on as you make the game even more fun to play, and before people who don’t know me think I’m a fan boy then think different as I was very out spoken about OOTP 2006 with the price structure and so on.

I hope people do buy this version of OOTP because of 2 reasons, 1 it doesn’t go back to what OOTP was and 2 it doesn’t go down the road that EHM as done, I’ll even bombard Channel 5 that shows baseball over here to get them to mention OOTP even if I do have to be kind to that nut sack Johnny Gould.

[Poleaxe]

First, I started playing OOTP with 2006. I did play 5 while waiting for 2006 to be released.

I have to say that I find most of the complaints about the interface are silly resistance to change, but there are some valid criticisms.
1) Clicking and click&drag are not "crisp" enough. This is frustrating and should not be an issue.
2) The html pages are necessary and must remain. We online leaguers use them to avoid work. However, I see no reason that the html player sheets ever need to come up in the game. They just need to be available.
3) Wanting to see your lineup's batting stats (as in 2006) and wanting depth chart to be integrated into the lineup screen are not mutually exclusive desires. It's silly what we need to go through to see stats and set our lineups. I'm surprised that this didn't jump out at everyone involved with 2007. At the very least there should be a filter for starting lineup, but really there needs to be a toggle to move back and forth between depth chart and batting stats.
4) There are a lot of little things that would make the interface more polished.

Wanting to abandon the interface all together to go back to 6.5 is ridiculous, though. Saying you don't use bookmarks (even temporary ones) is like saying you've decided to make it harder to play the game. And 2007 really is much better than 2006- I play in two leagues, one 2006 and one 2007 and I now dread loading up 2006.

[enuttage]

Originally Posted by Poleaxe

I have to say that I find most of the complaints about the interface are silly resistance to change, but there are some valid criticisms.
1) Clicking and click&drag are not "crisp" enough. This is frustrating and should not be an issue.
2) The html pages are necessary and must remain. We online leaguers use them to avoid work. However, I see no reason that the html player sheets ever need to come up in the game. They just need to be available.
3) Wanting to see your lineup's batting stats (as in 2006) and wanting depth chart to be integrated into the lineup screen are not mutually exclusive desires. It's silly what we need to go through to see stats and set our lineups. I'm surprised that this didn't jump out at everyone involved with 2007. At the very least there should be a filter for starting lineup, but really there needs to be a toggle to move back and forth between depth chart and batting stats.
4) There are a lot of little things that would make the interface more polished.

These are well-stated, and will hopefully be noticed.

[BigCity]

"Saying you don't use bookmarks (even temporary ones) is like saying you've decided to make it harder to play the game."

This is the part that surprised me the most. To me, Markus realized that no matter how he designed the interface, someone was going to want to get from point A to point B easier, so he added bookmarks to allow us to do that. To say one isn't going to use them because it makes the game "harder" sure suggests the complexity of the game is already too much for that individual.

I share the opinion that improvements can still be made to 2007, but let's not forget 6.5 had a LOT less to worry about displaying and that's why the menus were less complex.

[Queensryche]

I never use bookmarks. I got in such a groove on 2006 of being able to find things with clicks,it just trasnferred over to 2007.

[biggamejrs]

Originally Posted by Go Tribe

My thoughts for whatever they are worth....

It's more complicated to make in game changes than it has to be (i only play broadcast view so i'm referring to that view only).

my suggestion: if you want to pinch hit, have the user right click on the batter to bring up the list of BATTERS ONLY with batting ratings already listed. if you want to pinch run, right click on the runner to bring up the list of BATTERS ONLY with base running ratings already listed. if you want to go to the bullpen, same thing. left clicking would still show the player's card.
or put pinch hit, pinch run and bullpen on the list of options (with swing away, pitch, steal, etc) and have context sensitive screens come up.

for the main screens, i think having menu's across the bottom isn't as intuitive as having it across the top like most microsoft applications. make it like IE where you have the icons AND the mouse over text menus. better yet, if you disagree with me, allow the user to choose top or bottom (or left or right for that matter) for the location of their icon menu

i like the sidebar option someone else posted in another thread

allow the user to click on the word manager across the top to go right to the manager home page without having to wait for the dropdown to appear

excellent idea!

[Poleaxe]

Originally Posted by Queensryche

I never use bookmarks. I got in such a groove on 2006 of being able to find things with clicks,it just trasnferred over to 2007.

I use a lot of temporary bookmarks. An example is after I've made a trade, I usually bookmark any player I've sent so I can see how they play at their new team (and beat myself up if necessary). I also bookmark players when I'm shopping someone and I'm receiving multiple offers.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Poleaxe

after I've made a trade, I usually bookmark any player I've sent so I can see how they play at their new team (and beat myself up if necessary)

LOL, I do that too.

[Killebrew]

I never understood the love for v6.5. I was happy to use it but am just as pleased to never have to use it again . There were some pretty serious bugs in that version that were never addressed, like "frozen rating" players (about 30-40 generated per year) that you had to delete or manually edit each season. Manual edits of player contracts did not work, when you traded a draft pick the game would often apply the trade to both this years and next years pick (ack), pressing auto-lineup with the same player in 2 spots on any depth chart would result in the same player in the lineup twice, and this would crash the game instantly if you tried to sim. Tons of quirky AI with regards to required contract extensions and what free agent offers the game chose. Those same contract extensions would sometimes disappear in the game, and the games free-agents-to-be info usually did not match the games html info, resulting in lost players and ticked online league owners. I also don't believe there was support for high desktop dimensions, which made it difficult to actually view .

IMO the v6.5 lovefest began when the disappointing v2006 was released, where suddenly we thought "Hey, I guess v6.5 was pretty good after all" .


Some quick thoughts on the UI issues of OOTP 2006/2007:
- There should really be only one way to reach the same screen in the app, or at the very least only two ways if you count direct links on the lower taskbar. Supporting a UI with so many methods of reaching the same screen results in more confusion for newbies to the game.
- I think more screens could be be combined to reduce clicks. For example, why can't I see the player contract info when selecting a player screen? It seems to me all his ratings could also fit on this screen.

[enuttage]

Originally Posted by Killebrew

- I think more screens could be be combined to reduce clicks. For example, why can't I see the player contract info when selecting a player screen? It seems to me all his ratings could also fit on this screen.

I'll gladly second this suggestion.

[Poleaxe]

BTW, I forgot to mention that one of things you can do with the html player screens is open them up in external browsers. This allows you to window the browsers and compare the players side by side. Something you really can't do any other way (though bookmarks let you pop back and forth). I'm not sure how important that is to most people, though.

[enuttage]

Originally Posted by Poleaxe

BTW, I forgot to mention that one of things you can do with the html player screens is open them up in external browsers. This allows you to window the browsers and compare the players side by side. Something you really can't do any other way (though bookmarks let you pop back and forth). I'm not sure how important that is to most people, though.

In 6.5 you could do this, too. You ran the HTML report and it opened in an external browser, but the in-game screen was not HTML.

This is the one thing I'd like to see return from the old game. But as Andreas has hinted, it may not be easy to accomplish. He didn't really expound on his statement, so we don't really know for sure.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by enuttage

I'll gladly second this suggestion.

Thirded.

[daveyk39]

One of the most tedious aspects for me is managing minor league assignments, mostly because I am usually doing this periodically in bulk rather than in ones and twos.

1. You go to the minor league report, spot a player who should be re-assigned, right-click and reassign him.
2. The page reloads (wait, wait, wait) and you start at the top of the screen, even if you were working on the players in your Rookie league team (scroll, scroll, scroll).

There needs to be a way to move multiple players at one time from one location to another. Perhaps check box them and perform the same action on all of them. Or allow Ctrl-click/Shift-click to select more than one at a time.