Trading AI in OOTP 5, Update - Page 2

PLG · 03-06-2003, 08:14 AM

Dont change the trading AI please. Or put a flag to have both choice, but leave it the way it is.
And take Vacation

Thanks

Matteo · 03-06-2003, 08:19 AM

Trading AI is certainly a thing that should be strong, or in the event people want easy trading you could make it dependent of the manager level we chose with our profile.

As for current trading AI, I haven't tried it with OOTP5 yet, but what I did with v4 is signing Vlad for 20 Million, then trading him away for a brilliant 25 year old SP and 2 or 3 top 100 prospects.

I feel that salary and contract should be a very important factor in determining the overall value of a player, esspecially in these teams of revenue sharing

Bee · 03-06-2003, 08:22 AM

I think a lot of people think "improving" the trade AI would make the game easier. I disagree. I don't think it's a case of making the trade AI easier, it's a case of making it better. Right now, the computer rejects trades in it's favor. If it accepted those trades, it would improve the computer team. The AI should still reject trades that are in favor of the player (unlike previous versions).

BusterKing · 03-06-2003, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PLG
Dont change the trading AI please. Or put a flag to have both choice, but leave it the way it is.
And take Vacation

Thanks

Right on Pierre mon ami.

Take that well deserved vacation Markus. Just don't make the patch available on April fool's day, we won't believe you!

How about a toggle switch for what type of trading AI we want, like the choice of easy, normal or difficult?

This may satisfy more people. It's an area that is very difficult to please everyone but if you have multiple choices then it will please more people.

mking55 · 03-06-2003, 08:40 AM

Markus,

Trading should be hard. The problem is not that it is too hard. The problem is that it is not logical enough. I think when people are complaining about the 'difficulty' of it, they are not complaining because they want 'easy' trades. They want logical offers sometimes accepted.

For example, if a team is in a pennant race it is conceivable that they would accept an older good player for a younger, potentially goodl player. Age should not always be a prime factor in considering a trade.

The counter-offer feature needs to be made workable. The computer should be able to think up a reasonable counter-offer most of the time. (Sometimes it shouldn't. No one will trade Babe Ruth in their prime).

There also needs to be some easier way to find available players. If I need a 3b, I would like to see a list of 3b's whose teams are willing to trade.

When receiving a trade offer via email, you should be able to counter. If a trade offer is received via email and you put it on hold, you should be able to go to the trade screen and make the same offer and have it accepted (within a reasonable amount of time). Consistency is important.

I think a good trading module will significantly increase the enjoyment of solo play. It is important that it remain challenging yet logical. One of the reasons people play this is so they can be G.M.'s and run things. Wheeling and dealing is a big part of that.

Feel free to take a well-deserved vacation after you fix this. You will be able to rest easy knowing you have done your utmost to help your game reach it's potential.

Thanks,
Martin

Bee · 03-06-2003, 08:43 AM

Very well said Martin.

Wheele8 · 03-06-2003, 09:59 AM

I think Mking's post is right on the money, but then again we don't know how difficult it is to get these things just right.

The game is still unbelievable with the trading as is, and I don't think the game is too difficult in the least. The difficulty level is nearly perfect, and it seems to me that the only thing that should be added to the trading AI are enhancements, not full blown changes

smolen22 · 03-06-2003, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mking55

(Sometimes it shouldn't. No one will trade Babe Ruth in their prime).

Unless you are the Boston Red Sox...

DaleReeck · 03-06-2003, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mking55
(Sometimes it shouldn't. No one will trade Babe Ruth in their prime).

Unless you're the Red Sox

Sorry, couldn't resist...

MannyTrillo · 03-06-2003, 10:36 AM

-It seems to me like it's very difficult, and maybe impossible, to design a trading AI that will accept all "logical" trades, but can't be taken advantage of somehow.

-The trading AI in v.5 seems harder to take advantage of. This is a big plus, IMO, as the biggest impediment to my enjoyment of solo OOTP play has been that it's just too easy to build a dynasty.

-That said, there is something a little screwy about how the AI values prospects. As someone else said, it seems like the AI will never trade its prospects, unless you offer a real star player, in which case it will trade you all of its prospects.

-Bottom line, maybe a little tweak here or there would be a good idea, but the trading AI is not something that I would say needs serious work. The "hard/easy" toggle is a great idea.

BasicGuy · 03-06-2003, 10:40 AM

Markus you say new reports are there going to be any new News Storys???? I mean we are running on the same ones from V3 still....

And just to be devils advicate I'm glad you decided to work on the patch before the vacation.....That way when you do go on vacation you won't be thinking about codeing the whole time. And you can think about the little lady instead.

Sweed · 03-06-2003, 10:55 AM

First Markus take your vacation and get away from this all for a few days. With regard to oopt5 and trading I guess I'm just not having the problems others are. I have made several trades that I though were even and didn't have a hard time getting them done. I just hope whatever adjustments are made don't swing the pendulum to far in the other direction. With the manager mode and the difficulty that we now have to build a winner there is a real pressure put on me in this game that was never there before. I take it a lot more seriously when I have a pitcher or star player go down to injury. In v4 I didn't have to worry there was no job to lose and I could just go out and make a trade and the problem would just go away. With v5 I immediately start to wonder what the consequences will be and how I can keep the boat affloat until I get my guy off the dl.

Not saying we couldn't use a few tweaks but don't want to take a step backwards to making it to easy. IMHO we're better off with it the way it is than the way it was.

Hetz · 03-06-2003, 11:02 AM

Like Basicguy said, he should work on the patch...and then take a vacation. It sucks to go on vacation and think about the work you are going to have to do the whole time. Get the patch out of the way and then ENJOY yourself!

treedom · 03-06-2003, 11:11 AM

...new reports? that has me more excited than the trade fixes

i'm holding my breath for a possitional chart like in Cato's utility...

fluharty · 03-06-2003, 11:18 AM

Markus, people can wait a week. Take your vacation. We dont want you to burn out or suffer some stress-related illness! Go!

Eckstein 4 Prez · 03-06-2003, 11:23 AM

Markus: don't even read this post until after your vacation.........

.....okay, back now? Then I will say this: please please please don't put anything into the trading AI that will make trading easier! That was the biggest potential exploit in OOTP4.... witness all of the veterans' house rules to keep from building a juggernaut within a couple of seasons.

That said, a counter-offer feature would be nice, and IMO realistic. However, the AI seems much improved in this respect. If people really feel the need to win 130 games per year, they can always be the Hornsmaniac of their solo league and edit the ratings, make bogus trades, etc. But let the rest of us enjoy the improvements to the AI.......

Just my 2 cents...

Bee · 03-06-2003, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BusterKing

How about a toggle switch for what type of trading AI we want, like the choice of easy, normal or difficult?

Can we have a toggle for "intelligent" trading?

BusterKing · 03-06-2003, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bee
Can we have a toggle for "intelligent" trading?

Intelligence is a matter of opinion!

D Love · 03-06-2003, 12:39 PM

Maybe just fix the AI to accept lopsided deals... like Tampa Bay would accept Vlad for Greg Vaughn. It seems people are using the fact that lopsided deals in favor of the offeree team are being rejected by the offeree as proof that the system is rejected.

That should satisfy some people while leaving the meat of the difficult trading system in tact.

Then again, this may be easier said than done.

Bee · 03-06-2003, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BusterKing
Intelligence is a matter of opinion!

That's why we need a toggle.

03-06-2003, 08:14 AM	#21
PLG All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Montréal, Canada Posts: 640	Dont change the trading AI please. Or put a flag to have both choice, but leave it the way it is. And take Vacation Thanks __________________ Pierre pierrepage30@hotmail.com If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot them?

03-06-2003, 08:19 AM	#22
Matteo Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Posts: 473	Trading AI is certainly a thing that should be strong, or in the event people want easy trading you could make it dependent of the manager level we chose with our profile. As for current trading AI, I haven't tried it with OOTP5 yet, but what I did with v4 is signing Vlad for 20 Million, then trading him away for a brilliant 25 year old SP and 2 or 3 top 100 prospects. I feel that salary and contract should be a very important factor in determining the overall value of a player, esspecially in these teams of revenue sharing __________________ ESPN The Show live chat during 2004 ALCS: Julie (Boston): Do you think Jeter does the fist pump everytime he disappoints a woman in bed? Or does he save it for when he's with A-Rod? Bill Simmons: Whoops - I didn't mean to post that. Really, I didn't.

03-06-2003, 10:36 AM	#30
MannyTrillo All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 664	-It seems to me like it's very difficult, and maybe impossible, to design a trading AI that will accept all "logical" trades, but can't be taken advantage of somehow. -The trading AI in v.5 seems harder to take advantage of. This is a big plus, IMO, as the biggest impediment to my enjoyment of solo OOTP play has been that it's just too easy to build a dynasty. -That said, there is something a little screwy about how the AI values prospects. As someone else said, it seems like the AI will never trade its prospects, unless you offer a real star player, in which case it will trade you all of its prospects. -Bottom line, maybe a little tweak here or there would be a good idea, but the trading AI is not something that I would say needs serious work. The "hard/easy" toggle is a great idea. __________________ Poster emeritus "Not butchery, dining!!" obt sk cmh ct President, A-1 Aces OT Posting Club Click here to join

03-06-2003, 11:11 AM	#34
treedom Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Transylvania Posts: 2,900	...new reports? that has me more excited than the trade fixes i'm holding my breath for a possitional chart like in Cato's utility... __________________ A rake and a roustabout.

03-06-2003, 11:23 AM	#36
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Markus: don't even read this post until after your vacation......... .....okay, back now? Then I will say this: please please please don't put anything into the trading AI that will make trading easier! That was the biggest potential exploit in OOTP4.... witness all of the veterans' house rules to keep from building a juggernaut within a couple of seasons. That said, a counter-offer feature would be nice, and IMO realistic. However, the AI seems much improved in this respect. If people really feel the need to win 130 games per year, they can always be the Hornsmaniac of their solo league and edit the ratings, make bogus trades, etc. But let the rest of us enjoy the improvements to the AI....... Just my 2 cents... __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

03-06-2003, 08:22 AM	#23
Bee Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 147	I think a lot of people think "improving" the trade AI would make the game easier. I disagree. I don't think it's a case of making the trade AI easier, it's a case of making it better. Right now, the computer rejects trades in it's favor. If it accepted those trades, it would improve the computer team. The AI should still reject trades that are in favor of the player (unlike previous versions).

03-06-2003, 08:40 AM	#25
mking55 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boading, China Posts: 1,249	Markus, Trading should be hard. The problem is not that it is too hard. The problem is that it is not logical enough. I think when people are complaining about the 'difficulty' of it, they are not complaining because they want 'easy' trades. They want logical offers sometimes accepted. For example, if a team is in a pennant race it is conceivable that they would accept an older good player for a younger, potentially goodl player. Age should not always be a prime factor in considering a trade. The counter-offer feature needs to be made workable. The computer should be able to think up a reasonable counter-offer most of the time. (Sometimes it shouldn't. No one will trade Babe Ruth in their prime). There also needs to be some easier way to find available players. If I need a 3b, I would like to see a list of 3b's whose teams are willing to trade. When receiving a trade offer via email, you should be able to counter. If a trade offer is received via email and you put it on hold, you should be able to go to the trade screen and make the same offer and have it accepted (within a reasonable amount of time). Consistency is important. I think a good trading module will significantly increase the enjoyment of solo play. It is important that it remain challenging yet logical. One of the reasons people play this is so they can be G.M.'s and run things. Wheeling and dealing is a big part of that. Feel free to take a well-deserved vacation after you fix this. You will be able to rest easy knowing you have done your utmost to help your game reach it's potential. Thanks, Martin

03-06-2003, 08:43 AM	#26
Bee Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 147	Very well said Martin.

03-06-2003, 09:59 AM	#27
Wheele8 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 149	I think Mking's post is right on the money, but then again we don't know how difficult it is to get these things just right. The game is still unbelievable with the trading as is, and I don't think the game is too difficult in the least. The difficulty level is nearly perfect, and it seems to me that the only thing that should be added to the trading AI are enhancements, not full blown changes

03-06-2003, 10:40 AM	#31
BasicGuy Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ND Posts: 478	Markus you say new reports are there going to be any new News Storys???? I mean we are running on the same ones from V3 still.... And just to be devils advicate I'm glad you decided to work on the patch before the vacation.....That way when you do go on vacation you won't be thinking about codeing the whole time. And you can think about the little lady instead.

03-06-2003, 11:02 AM	#33
Hetz Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5	Like Basicguy said, he should work on the patch...and then take a vacation. It sucks to go on vacation and think about the work you are going to have to do the whole time. Get the patch out of the way and then ENJOY yourself!

03-06-2003, 11:18 AM	#35
fluharty All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Morgantown, WV Posts: 1,023	Markus, people can wait a week. Take your vacation. We dont want you to burn out or suffer some stress-related illness! Go!

03-06-2003, 12:39 PM	#39
D Love All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 904	Maybe just fix the AI to accept lopsided deals... like Tampa Bay would accept Vlad for Greg Vaughn. It seems people are using the fact that lopsided deals in favor of the offeree team are being rejected by the offeree as proof that the system is rejected. That should satisfy some people while leaving the meat of the difficult trading system in tact. Then again, this may be easier said than done.