Tim Lincecum

darkhorse · 04-19-2007, 04:32 PM

What is this fella doing in the minor leagues? It's not like the Giants are pacing the NL West.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/m...pbp&pid=453311

Dagrims · 04-19-2007, 04:38 PM

Probably there for the same reason this guy is:

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/m...pbp&pid=461833

darkhorse · 04-19-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagrims

Probably there for the same reason this guy is:

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/m...pbp&pid=461833

I don't see that fella off to nearly as good a start. Plus, Lincecum is two years older.

Luis_Rivera · 04-19-2007, 04:45 PM

Because Brian Sabean sucks.

jeheinz72 · 04-19-2007, 04:48 PM

Basically, the Giants love the kid, but want to give him some more innings in the minors. People are clammoring to have him be in the pen on the big club now, but the GIants want to keep him only starting. He'll be in the bigs in September I bet.

darkhorse · 04-19-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Basically, the Giants love the kid, but want to give him some more innings in the minors. People are clammoring to have him be in the pen on the big club now, but the GIants want to keep him only starting. He'll be in the bigs in September I bet.

Putting him in the pen would be a misallocation of resources.

jeheinz72 · 04-19-2007, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Putting him in the pen would be a misallocation of resources.

Yeah pretty much. I'd bet Russ Ortiz is lookin' over his shoulder, though he's been ok.

andymac · 04-19-2007, 05:28 PM

Well, you have to think about sample size a bit here. Yes, the guy has been awesome so far in his minor league numbers but we are talking about 50 innings, only 20 of which are above A ball. At this point it probably wouldn't hurt anything to take a look at him in San Francisco soon, but I don't see how you can fault them at all for not having him on the big league club quite yet.

darkhorse · 04-19-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

I don't see how you can fault them at all for not having him on the big league club quite yet.

50 innings ain't squat.....BUT

.....in those 50 IP he's given up 23 hits and K'd 86 batters. Hell, he's making AAA hitters look fooking silly. I dunno what Lincecum is gonna learn by wasting another inning down on the farm.

jeheinz72 · 04-19-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

50 innings ain't squat.....BUT

.....in those 50 IP he's given up 23 hits and K'd 86 batters. Hell, he's making AAA hitters look fooking silly. I dunno what Lincecum is gonna learn by wasting another inning down on the farm.

But there also isn't really a spot for him either

- Zito isn't comin' out of the rotation
- Cain sure as hell isn't
- Lowry sure isn't
- Morris will probably warrant it at some point, but he makes big bucks is 2-0 with a 2.00 ERA so far (just barely above his WHIP though, I might add)
- Ortiz is the 5th man, but they've only thrown him twice so far. While he's not like he was earlier in the year he's cheap and usually gets deep into games.

So my guess is they're just figuring Lincecum will come up if there is a long-term injury this year, or take Ortiz's spot next year.

Luis_Rivera · 04-19-2007, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

Well, you have to think about sample size a bit here. Yes, the guy has been awesome so far in his minor league numbers but we are talking about 50 innings, only 20 of which are above A ball. At this point it probably wouldn't hurt anything to take a look at him in San Francisco soon, but I don't see how you can fault them at all for not having him on the big league club quite yet.

I don't know if you saw my discussion with FJ about the value of scouts (he was saying they're near worthless) but this is one of those times that you combine the small sample with scouting reports and you know it's legit. Lincecum is a perfect illustration of the value of scouting.

Luis_Rivera · 04-19-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

But there also isn't really a spot for him either

- Zito isn't comin' out of the rotation
- Cain sure as hell isn't
- Lowry sure isn't
- Morris will probably warrant it at some point, but he makes big bucks is 2-0 with a 2.00 ERA so far (just barely above his WHIP though, I might add)
- Ortiz is the 5th man, but they've only thrown him twice so far. While he's not like he was earlier in the year he's cheap and usually gets deep into games.

So my guess is they're just figuring Lincecum will come up if there is a long-term injury this year, or take Ortiz's spot next year.

Russ Ortiz is terrible, and Lincecum is cheaper. Lincecum is likely better than all those guys RIGHT NOW except Cain, who I give him a year before he surpasses.

MorseMoose · 04-19-2007, 08:15 PM

I heard a trade is in works. Mike Redmond for Lincecum. The Giants and Twins have a good history of trades of young pitchers for catchers.

MuertoDesagradecido · 04-19-2007, 08:19 PM

If I were Sabean I'd move Russ to the 'pen and call up Lincecum to start. Ortiz has looked okay in a couple of starts, but c'mon, he's Russ friggin' Ortiz, and I've always thought he would be worth trying as a reliever where he might be able to mask his poor control by focusing on a couple of pitches.

Frankly, I think he's 1-2 more starts from the bigs (if he keeps this up) regardless, but it will be a mistake to put him in the 'pen. If they do, he'd better close at least.

andymac · 04-19-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

I don't know if you saw my discussion with FJ about the value of scouts (he was saying they're near worthless) but this is one of those times that you combine the small sample with scouting reports and you know it's legit. Lincecum is a perfect illustration of the value of scouting.

I'm not saying he should not be up there...just that you can't fault the Giants for at least waiting this long. They haven't even had the kid a full year yet, he just made his 11th professional start and he didn't have Prior type hype coming in where scouts thought he was ready before he was even drafted. Yea, it is probably time to decide how to use him in the majors this season at this point.

MuertoDesagradecido · 04-19-2007, 08:23 PM

Cross posted from a blog I frequent, I took an even closer look at those starts from Lincecum:

The basics: 18.2 IP, 0 R, 9 H (4.3 H/9), 5 BB (2.4 BB/9), 28 K (13.5 K/9)

In three starts he has faced 68 batters and retired 54 (79%) of them. He has thrown 263 pitches of which:

94 have been taken for balls (36%)
53 have been taken for called strikes (20%)
116 have been swung at (44%)

Of those that have been swung at:

29 have been fouled off (25%)
52 have been whiffed on (45%)
35 have been put in play (30%)

Of those that have been put in play

19 have been hit on the ground (54%)
10 have been hit in the air (29%)
6 have been hit for line drives (17%)

45% of the time guys are swinging at him they can't even make CONTACT. Equally impressive, last year he faced 125-odd batters and gave up only one line drive.

MuertoDesagradecido · 04-19-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

he didn't have Prior type hype coming in where scouts thought he was ready before he was even drafted.

Not Prior-type, no, but he was regarded as the closest to the majors of any of the players drafted. Most scouts felt he could contribute out of the bullpen down the stretch.

Luis_Rivera · 04-19-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuertoDesagradecido

Not Prior-type, no, but he was regarded as the closest to the majors of any of the players drafted. Most scouts felt he could contribute out of the bullpen down the stretch.

Yep... the reason he fell to 10th in the draft - like the 6th starting pitcher taken, unreal - was because his small frame scared GMs.

Big Hugg · 04-19-2007, 09:48 PM

All the Giants are doing by leaving him in AAA is wasting innings on his arm that should be used at the big league level.

MuertoDesagradecido · 04-19-2007, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

Yep... the reason he fell to 10th in the draft - like the 6th starting pitcher taken, unreal - was because his small frame scared GMs.

Yeah, that and his unorthodox delivery which now a lot of people are saying puts less stress on his arm than most.

Anecdotal, but Tim's dad Chris, who taught him the delivery, throws 88 mph... at 55 years old.

04-19-2007, 04:32 PM	#1
darkhorse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: fort worth, tx Posts: 10,850	Tim Lincecum What is this fella doing in the minor leagues? It's not like the Giants are pacing the NL West. http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/m...pbp&pid=453311

04-19-2007, 04:38 PM	#2
Dagrims Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,827	Probably there for the same reason this guy is: http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/m...pbp&pid=461833 __________________ "Read books, get brain."

04-19-2007, 04:48 PM	#5
jeheinz72 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 2,163	Basically, the Giants love the kid, but want to give him some more innings in the minors. People are clammoring to have him be in the pen on the big club now, but the GIants want to keep him only starting. He'll be in the bigs in September I bet. __________________ Join The Dugout!

04-19-2007, 05:28 PM	#8
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,725	Well, you have to think about sample size a bit here. Yes, the guy has been awesome so far in his minor league numbers but we are talking about 50 innings, only 20 of which are above A ball. At this point it probably wouldn't hurt anything to take a look at him in San Francisco soon, but I don't see how you can fault them at all for not having him on the big league club quite yet. __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

04-19-2007, 08:19 PM	#14
MuertoDesagradecido Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Saint Francisco Posts: 436 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	If I were Sabean I'd move Russ to the 'pen and call up Lincecum to start. Ortiz has looked okay in a couple of starts, but c'mon, he's Russ friggin' Ortiz, and I've always thought he would be worth trying as a reliever where he might be able to mask his poor control by focusing on a couple of pitches. Frankly, I think he's 1-2 more starts from the bigs (if he keeps this up) regardless, but it will be a mistake to put him in the 'pen. If they do, he'd better close at least. Last edited by MuertoDesagradecido; 04-19-2007 at 08:20 PM.

04-19-2007, 04:45 PM	#4
Luis_Rivera Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,177	Because Brian Sabean sucks.

04-19-2007, 08:15 PM	#13
MorseMoose Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,023 Infractions: 1/1 (1)	I heard a trade is in works. Mike Redmond for Lincecum. The Giants and Twins have a good history of trades of young pitchers for catchers.

04-19-2007, 08:23 PM	#16
MuertoDesagradecido Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Saint Francisco Posts: 436 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Cross posted from a blog I frequent, I took an even closer look at those starts from Lincecum: The basics: 18.2 IP, 0 R, 9 H (4.3 H/9), 5 BB (2.4 BB/9), 28 K (13.5 K/9) In three starts he has faced 68 batters and retired 54 (79%) of them. He has thrown 263 pitches of which: 94 have been taken for balls (36%) 53 have been taken for called strikes (20%) 116 have been swung at (44%) Of those that have been swung at: 29 have been fouled off (25%) 52 have been whiffed on (45%) 35 have been put in play (30%) Of those that have been put in play 19 have been hit on the ground (54%) 10 have been hit in the air (29%) 6 have been hit for line drives (17%) 45% of the time guys are swinging at him they can't even make CONTACT. Equally impressive, last year he faced 125-odd batters and gave up only one line drive.

04-19-2007, 09:48 PM	#19
Big Hugg All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 933	All the Giants are doing by leaving him in AAA is wasting innings on his arm that should be used at the big league level.