Jackie Robinson Day (or the why Torii Hunter pisses me off)

MorseMoose · 04-13-2007, 07:44 PM

In the morning paper, they mentioned something about Jackie Robinson day and how 150 players will be wearing Jackie Robinson's number. Of course, having the extremely large mouth that Hunter has, he had something to say:

http://www.startribune.com/509/story/1118021.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Tribune (part of an article)

Hunter was the talk of the nation on Thursday after expressing unhappiness in USA Today and on ESPN that more than 150 players will wear Jackie Robinson's No. 42 on Sunday on the 60th anniversary of him breaking baseball's color barrier.

Hunter said he believes the honor should go to a select few, which he said was Ken Griffey Jr.'s intention when he called the league for permission to wear the number.

Five entire teams will wear No. 42 on Sunday. Hunter said he has no problem with the Dodgers, Robinson's team, wearing the number. But he found it ironic that Houston, a team with no African-American players, will have all of its players wearing No. 42 on Sunday.

"It's just my opinion," he said. "Someone asked me if I was commissioner, what would I do on that day. I said that all the black players in the game wear it that day."

Now, for me, I think this is absolutely ridiculous. Sure, Jackie Robinson means a lot to African-Americans. I understand that Jackie opened the door for blacks to play in the major leagues. I understand that Torii Hunter, Ken Griffey Jr. and others see him as a huge idol. But I don't see what that has to do with race.

Jackie Robinson opened the doors for the African-Americans to be on a level playing field with the rest of the country. Jackie Robinson saw a game that was colorblind. He didn't want to be treated special, he wanted to be treated just like everyone else in the game.

I read a biography of Jackie Robinson when I was in school and he became a huge role model growing up. I thought about the courage that he showed every day as he stepped out onto the field. I thought about the adversity that he had to overcome.

When I was a senior in high school, I found a quote, "Adversity causes some men to break, others to break records." I immediately thought of Jackie Robinson. I can never imagine the adversity that he faced on the playing field.

Why wearing the #42 should be limited to "just a few", and assuming Hunter meant only blacks, is beyond me. Players should honor Jackie Robinson in their own way. If they wish to wear #42, so be it. Who is Torii Hunter to tell someone that they can't honor Jackie Robinson. Who is he to tell someone that Robinson didn't have an impact on them as a player. So what if he is white, Asian, Mexican, Australian, Dutch or Russian. Jackie Robinson opened the floodgates of the Major League Baseball.

He makes the comment about the Houston Astros. So what if they don't have a black player on the team. As a team they decided that they would like to honor him. Because they are white doesn't mean that it detracts anything from the honor. I would like to think that Jackie Robinson would be proud of the number of players that have been touched by his story.

I'll end with this: Torii Hunter, you need to shut your mouth.

CMH · 04-13-2007, 07:49 PM

Well, that's Torii Hunter for you.

I do agree with one thing, MLB shouldn't have opened the floodgates for everyone and their mom to wear the number. How about a patch or the number 42 on bases (of course, that probably wouldn't work because Torii Hunter might complain that it's disrespect to Jackie Robinson to have players stepping on his number during a game).

Ok, so I'm being hard on Torii, but the truth is he went too far with the Houston Astros comment.

It's already no secret that blacks aren't playing baseball anymore. Perhaps, Torii should give back to inner-city communities so they can play baseball instead of basketball and football. Then the Astros will have a chance to find a black player with the ability to play the game. Or should they just sign a black player because it's a law or something?

rudel.dietrich · 04-13-2007, 07:50 PM

What really pisses me off is there is no Larry Doby day

It also pisses me off that people cannot look beyond Jackies skin colour and fail to recognize what a hell of a ballplayer he was.
All they talk about is how he broke the colour barrier and never how good of a hitter he was never or the fact that he is possibly one of the five best fielding second basemen of all time.

60 years later and Jackies skin colour is still holding him back.

CMH · 04-13-2007, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

What really pisses me off is there is no Larry Doby day

It also pisses me off that people cannot look beyond Jackies skin colour and fail to recognize what a hell of a ballplayer he was.
All they talk about is how he broke the colour barrier and how good of a batter he was never enters the disscussion or the fact that he is possibly one of the five best fielding second basemen of all time.

60 years later and Jackies skin colour is still holding him back.

That's an interesting point.

I guess he had to know that this would come with the territory.

As for Larry Doby, I don't know why he's ignored so much. Would be nice if maybe the AL honored him every couple of years.

rudel.dietrich · 04-13-2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

That's an interesting point.

I guess he had to know that this would come with the territory.

As for Larry Doby, I don't know why he's ignored so much. Would be nice if maybe the AL honored him every couple of years.

Screw every other year

We all tend to forget

The AL and NL were two totaly completly different worlds.
They were different companies with different front offices and different commishes.

Their was no interleague play so all the AL teams played agasint one black face that seasons.
And it wasnt Jackie Robinsons
AL crowds saw one black face on the diamond
And again it wasnt Robinsons

Its a goddamn shame that Doby is not better known than he is.
July 5th should be just as important and April 15th

At the VERY least the Indians should wear Doby's # on July 5th
That is the bare minumum that baseball owes Doby

Jonzard · 04-13-2007, 08:08 PM

I saw an interview on PTI with Torii the other day. He actually backtracked on quite a few things, mainly his alluding that black players can only appreciate Jackie. Ultimately he, and players like Sabathia are just trying to give Jackie the proper respect.

I am totally behind him in his comments about entire teams wearing the number. I don't think entire teams should be wearing the number. I really don't think players who don't want to, or don't understand the significance of the act should be wearing the number. Garret Anderson, for example said he wont wear 42 because he doesn't feel worthy of it. When a whole team does it, you get players who don't understand wearing a number that they don't deserve to wear. The Dodgers are the exception here, as this is a huge piece of organizational history.

Ultimately though, both sides of the argument are just looking to honor Jackie Robinson to the fullest. I cannot fault either of them for that.

Cooleyvol · 04-13-2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

What really pisses me off is there is no Larry Doby day

It also pisses me off that people cannot look beyond Jackies skin colour and fail to recognize what a hell of a ballplayer he was.
All they talk about is how he broke the colour barrier and never how good of a hitter he was never or the fact that he is possibly one of the five best fielding second basemen of all time.

60 years later and Jackies skin colour is still holding him back.

I've never heard anyone discount his abilities and focus solely on his skin color.

The Professor · 04-13-2007, 08:11 PM

I agree that it is a terrible shame that Larry Doby is so overlooked.

That said, I don't think Hunter is necessarily wrong even if I'm not sure I completely agree with him. It is fine to honor Jackie Robinson, it is another thing entirely to make a circus of that celebration or to water down his meaning. I don't think it is just that "white guys" might wear the number, because I recall Hunter saying something yesterday about black players wearing the number, ostensibly because it "was cool", not because they actually knew about Robinson or what he stood for.

I think, deep down, Torii Hunter has a point. This whole Robinson-Day thing is sort of generic. For all of the Dodgers to wear #42? That makes a lot of sense. For the St. Louis Cardinals to do so? Why? (especially given the famous story about how a Cardinals boycott against Robinson was, reportedly, barely averted in 1947). The Astros? ???

As baseball fans we should remember the cause and the sacrifice of Jackie Robinson, Larry Doby, Wendell Smith, the many, great, Negro Leaguers who were barred from the game, the Frank Grants and the Walkers of the baseball world, as well as the Latino pioneers, each season. It is 2007, so yes, it makes sense to honor Jackie Robinson in some special way. I don't know that what MLB is doing is all that special.

I'm not saying it should be restricted to just black players, or that people who want to honor Jackie shouldn't be allowed to do so, even if it means the entire team is going to don the jersey, but I think Hunter is spot on in recognizing that this affair - for various reasons, some hard to define - is somewhat bereft of meaning.

But, hey, I bet MLB sells some cool Jackie Robinson Day apparel!!!

rudel.dietrich · 04-13-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

I've never heard anyone discount his abilities and focus solely on his skin color.

No one discounts his abilities but now many people talk about them and never mention the skin colour either.
Im not a minority (well I am sort of) but I would find that more degrading than simply being racist about it.

Prodigal Son · 04-13-2007, 08:17 PM

There's no Branch Rickey day!

Jonzard · 04-13-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

There's no Branch Rickey day!

Maybe all the players can wear business suits to honor him

The Professor · 04-13-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

There's no Branch Rickey day!

Oooo...Ooooo...Good Point! Good Point!

Where is Bill Veeck Day for that matter? Or Walter O'Malley Day? :snort: Wasn't John Smith the third owner for the Dodgers in 1947. Where is his day? Pee Wee Reese Day, too, for putting his arm around Jackie. Awwwwww. :tears:

162 games, 162 special days, millions of dollars in cool, Special Day,merchandise.

** And no booze at the ballpark on Rickey Day!

MorseMoose · 04-13-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

Perhaps, Torii should give back to inner-city communities so they can play baseball instead of basketball and football. Then the Astros will have a chance to find a black player with the ability to play the game. Or should they just sign a black player because it's a law or something?

He does do a lot of that. He has been a very charitable guy for the inner-city and has spoken out quite extensively about fewer blacks in the majors.

Something else that pissed me off the other day was someone wrote into the paper saying something along the lines of: "baseball isn't attractive to blacks because it isn't flashy or enough action and that black kids love the flashy and sports that are all about violence because that is what they grow up knowing."

Maybe this fits better in Off Topic, but it really seems like (to me) that we are growing more and more racist (and this was before the Imus comment). It seems that people are growing more and more me-centric and everything has to go their way or it is wrong.

rudel.dietrich · 04-13-2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

He does do a lot of that. He has been a very charitable guy for the inner-city and has spoken out quite extensively about fewer blacks in the majors.

Something else that pissed me off the other day was someone wrote into the paper saying something along the lines of: "baseball isn't attractive to blacks because it isn't flashy or enough action and that black kids love the flashy and sports that are all about violence because that is what they grow up knowing."

Maybe this fits better in Off Topic, but it really seems like (to me) that we are growing more and more racist (and this was before the Imus comment). It seems that people are growing more and more me-centric and everything has to go their way or it is wrong.

His point is correct but for the wrong reasons

Baseball is not attractive to black kids and it is not 'flashy' for them because their communities and culture have for whatever reasons shunned it to a large degree.

The violence comment is pretty inane but his core therory I think is correct.

Jonzard · 04-13-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

Maybe this fits better in Off Topic, but it really seems like (to me) that we are growing more and more racist (and this was before the Imus comment). It seems that people are growing more and more me-centric and everything has to go their way or it is wrong.

boldetized to show your me-centicity

jf7623 · 04-13-2007, 09:00 PM

When is Ross Gload day?

Jonzard · 04-13-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jf7623

When is Ross Gload day?

When America truly needs a hero, Ross Gload day will arrive. It will be clutch.

ukhotstove · 04-13-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jf7623

When is Ross Gload day?

Hell freezes over springs to mind

Spielman · 04-13-2007, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

It also pisses me off that people cannot look beyond Jackies skin colour and fail to recognize what a hell of a ballplayer he was.
All they talk about is how he broke the colour barrier and never how good of a hitter he was never or the fact that he is possibly one of the five best fielding second basemen of all time.

It's definitely true that his cultural significance tends to overshadow the brilliance of his actual career. For a long time, I assumed that he was somewhat overrated as a player because of that cultural significance, given that he had only a ten year major league career, and part of that as a part time player, so his career numbers aren't exactly eye popping. When I learned more about the game, and what the statistics meant, I found out how very, very wrong I was.

I find it terribly funny that Robinson has been held up as the type of exciting player that the evil statheads don't like, when in fact, a better understanding of the stats reveals what a totally tremendous player he objectively was.

His Own Bad Self · 04-14-2007, 01:08 AM

From the NBJHA: "Jackie Robinson is more often regarded as a historic figure, rather than a ballplayer... Jackie hit .311 in his career, and it was far from an empty .311; his secondary average was .357. He is never thought of as a great defensive second baseman, yet his fielding percentage is outstanding, his range numbers are very, very good, and his rate of DP/G is the third-best in baseball history... Jackie was a great baserunner; his stolen base totals aren't impressive, but if you read accounts of the 1947-1953 World Series, Robinson's baserunning exploits are all over the place."

On the issue of blacks in baseball today, I think it would be truly regrettable if blacks were being kept from MLB as they once were. However, no one is telling black kids today that they can't play baseball, or that they're not allowed to play in MLB. They have the choice to, whereas seventy years ago, they really didn't. I don't think there should be more blacks in baseball for the sake of having more blacks in baseball, as if fewer black baseball players meant that Robinson's sacrifice was for nothing. Robinson began the process of integrating MLB, and MLB today looks even more ethnically diverse than ever before.

04-13-2007, 07:50 PM	#3
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	What really pisses me off is there is no Larry Doby day It also pisses me off that people cannot look beyond Jackies skin colour and fail to recognize what a hell of a ballplayer he was. All they talk about is how he broke the colour barrier and never how good of a hitter he was never or the fact that he is possibly one of the five best fielding second basemen of all time. 60 years later and Jackies skin colour is still holding him back. Last edited by rudel.dietrich; 04-13-2007 at 07:58 PM.

04-13-2007, 08:08 PM	#6
Jonzard Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,647	I saw an interview on PTI with Torii the other day. He actually backtracked on quite a few things, mainly his alluding that black players can only appreciate Jackie. Ultimately he, and players like Sabathia are just trying to give Jackie the proper respect. I am totally behind him in his comments about entire teams wearing the number. I don't think entire teams should be wearing the number. I really don't think players who don't want to, or don't understand the significance of the act should be wearing the number. Garret Anderson, for example said he wont wear 42 because he doesn't feel worthy of it. When a whole team does it, you get players who don't understand wearing a number that they don't deserve to wear. The Dodgers are the exception here, as this is a huge piece of organizational history. Ultimately though, both sides of the argument are just looking to honor Jackie Robinson to the fullest. I cannot fault either of them for that. __________________ For a scientist must indeed be freely imaginative and yet skeptical, creative and yet a critic. There is a sense in which he must be free, but another in which his thought must be very precisely regimented; there is poetry in science, but also a lot of bookkeeping. — Sir Peter B. Medawar FTB Last edited by Jonzard; 04-13-2007 at 08:09 PM.

04-13-2007, 08:11 PM	#8
The Professor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East of East Posts: 3,020	I agree that it is a terrible shame that Larry Doby is so overlooked. That said, I don't think Hunter is necessarily wrong even if I'm not sure I completely agree with him. It is fine to honor Jackie Robinson, it is another thing entirely to make a circus of that celebration or to water down his meaning. I don't think it is just that "white guys" might wear the number, because I recall Hunter saying something yesterday about black players wearing the number, ostensibly because it "was cool", not because they actually knew about Robinson or what he stood for. I think, deep down, Torii Hunter has a point. This whole Robinson-Day thing is sort of generic. For all of the Dodgers to wear #42? That makes a lot of sense. For the St. Louis Cardinals to do so? Why? (especially given the famous story about how a Cardinals boycott against Robinson was, reportedly, barely averted in 1947). The Astros? ??? As baseball fans we should remember the cause and the sacrifice of Jackie Robinson, Larry Doby, Wendell Smith, the many, great, Negro Leaguers who were barred from the game, the Frank Grants and the Walkers of the baseball world, as well as the Latino pioneers, each season. It is 2007, so yes, it makes sense to honor Jackie Robinson in some special way. I don't know that what MLB is doing is all that special. I'm not saying it should be restricted to just black players, or that people who want to honor Jackie shouldn't be allowed to do so, even if it means the entire team is going to don the jersey, but I think Hunter is spot on in recognizing that this affair - for various reasons, some hard to define - is somewhat bereft of meaning. But, hey, I bet MLB sells some cool Jackie Robinson Day apparel!!! __________________ History isn't really about the past - settling old scores. It's about defining the present and who we are."

04-13-2007, 07:49 PM	#2
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	Well, that's Torii Hunter for you. I do agree with one thing, MLB shouldn't have opened the floodgates for everyone and their mom to wear the number. How about a patch or the number 42 on bases (of course, that probably wouldn't work because Torii Hunter might complain that it's disrespect to Jackie Robinson to have players stepping on his number during a game). Ok, so I'm being hard on Torii, but the truth is he went too far with the Houston Astros comment. It's already no secret that blacks aren't playing baseball anymore. Perhaps, Torii should give back to inner-city communities so they can play baseball instead of basketball and football. Then the Astros will have a chance to find a black player with the ability to play the game. Or should they just sign a black player because it's a law or something?

04-13-2007, 08:17 PM	#10
Prodigal Son All Star Starter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Iahiodo a.k.a. the flyover Posts: 1,635	There's no Branch Rickey day!

04-13-2007, 09:00 PM	#16
jf7623 Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 713 Infractions: 0/4 (4)	When is Ross Gload day?

04-14-2007, 01:08 AM	#20
His Own Bad Self All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,221	From the NBJHA: "Jackie Robinson is more often regarded as a historic figure, rather than a ballplayer... Jackie hit .311 in his career, and it was far from an empty .311; his secondary average was .357. He is never thought of as a great defensive second baseman, yet his fielding percentage is outstanding, his range numbers are very, very good, and his rate of DP/G is the third-best in baseball history... Jackie was a great baserunner; his stolen base totals aren't impressive, but if you read accounts of the 1947-1953 World Series, Robinson's baserunning exploits are all over the place." On the issue of blacks in baseball today, I think it would be truly regrettable if blacks were being kept from MLB as they once were. However, no one is telling black kids today that they can't play baseball, or that they're not allowed to play in MLB. They have the choice to, whereas seventy years ago, they really didn't. I don't think there should be more blacks in baseball for the sake of having more blacks in baseball, as if fewer black baseball players meant that Robinson's sacrifice was for nothing. Robinson began the process of integrating MLB, and MLB today looks even more ethnically diverse than ever before.