Anyone still not purchased yet...

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

Like I said, removed a long time ago. Since we have a very busy board we were getting spammed for a long time so we removed the signups of freebie accounts.

WE've since reverted back to normal

Since I couldn't post there, how was I supposed to know?

The ban even included browsing.

Thanks for the update, I am officially no longer unhappy with SI Games.

[JimiP]

I see similar answers to what mine is...
I really was p'd-off with 2006 or whatevfer that thing was called, having been a customer since like 2.0 always loved each new game cos they got better and better - the last one was gawd awful, and havent gotten over it.
just the facts mam, nothingmore - i got the $35 bucks but hell I need to see how this goes and maybe i will or maybe i won't - several buds have hipped me to the new one and likeit - but i dunno i guess if leagues i am in make the move i willhave to decide on what to do - but was not happy with last and felt no love given back on it so (edited by Admin for not proper posting under guidelines)- until later i guess.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Since I couldn't post there, how was I supposed to know?

The ban even included browsing.

Thanks for the update, I am officially no longer unhappy with SI Games.

Nope, sorry wrong again. Most of our forums are free to view with no account needed.

[aphoward]

I haven't even bothered with the Demo yet, mainly because of the lack of Real World rosters. I don't even care about all the BS surrounding these rosters and the controversy with them, I just want to see them done before I shell out the $$. I made the mistake last year of buying the pre-order before seeing the game and trusting it was going to be the usual top notch product from OOTP. Unfortunately it was both a bad product, poorly supported (read: never completely fitted with all of the features, and then abandoned), and the rosters were not released as promised/expected, and even when they were released, they were quite bad. Plus the much ballyhooed "import" functions were basically worthless, since the stuff that got imported was so distorted, you couldn't even use it.

Anyways, I'm not about to contribute another dime or even bother downloading the demo until I see some usable real world rosters, and see that key features (online leagues esp) are functioning as expected. I've heard nothing but good things about the changes to the interface and the functionality of this version, so that is good news, but the features I actually use are what is key for me to buy it again. I was an OOTP user since version 3, and it was very discouraging that once OOTP moved to SI Games, it seemed that online leagues were basically forgotten, and now real world rosters seem to be heading right down that tunnel also. Are there really that few people out there willing to make some quality rosters in exchange for a free copy of the game? And if they don't follow through, just revoke their license, lol.

Anyways, this wasn't really meant to be a rant, but you did ask why I haven't bought this game .

[eMLBCommish]

Originally Posted by aphoward

Anyways, I'm not about to contribute another dime or even bother downloading the demo until I see some usable real world rosters, and see that key features (online leagues esp) are functioning as expected. I've heard nothing but good things about the changes to the interface and the functionality of this version, so that is good news, but the features I actually use are what is key for me to buy it again. I was an OOTP user since version 3, and it was very discouraging that once OOTP moved to SI Games, it seemed that online leagues were basically forgotten, and now real world rosters seem to be heading right down that tunnel also. Are there really that few people out there willing to make some quality rosters in exchange for a free copy of the game? And if they don't follow through, just revoke their license, lol.

Anyways, this wasn't really meant to be a rant, but you did ask why I haven't bought this game .

Another one in a long line of people who just don't seem to get it. But to each their own. I have been running an online league for 7 years, and certainly do find 2006 had its nuances, but not once did I say I am being neglected by OOTP for running my league. Am I in the minority???

The issue of rosters is a challenging one. Please define to me what is quality. Just MLB? All the minor leaguers? How many prospects? Do you want Japan, the Dominican Leagues, and all the other subleagues too?

Do you have that amount of free time to commit to a thankless effort?

BTW, I italicized a specific part of your quote. This could be interpreted as "soft dollar compensation" in the context you present. While I know that legally, SI could use names and stats, it's a risk to compensate for using them if that were appealed and overturned, something I know the high priced lawyers are attempting to correct.

[aphoward]

Clearly I don't have the time to commit to a thankless effort, otherwise I would be doing it and would have already bought the game. I was not blaming the people who aren't out making rosters, nor the people who are trying, I am simply stating a fact, and that is that previous versions that I played ALWAYS had real world rosters, and this one doesn't, and THAT is why I am not buying it. That's the quesiton posed by Marc, and that is my answer. Whatever the reason for not having those rosters, is not my concern.

As far as quality, I'm not even talking about depth of players, as I would be perfectly satisified with MLB and AAA players (altho i would surely love full minors, I could care less about foreign players). What I do care about most importantly is well performing/functioning rosters, which the ones released last year were not. They were heavily slanted towards pitching, and produced some very unrealistic results (20+ pitchers in each league who were basically vintage Pedro Martinez). The same problems ocurred when importing rosters from previous versions, leading me to believe this had less to do with the way the rosters were created, and more to do with how the new game handles said rosters/stats. Hopefully the people working on this year's versions understands just how the game handles the stats and players.

Frankly, I don't really care what kind of legal wording you want to put on my suggestion of free copies of the game for people who design rosters, but I find it very hard to believe that a) there isn't a way around this, because you could just say the person is getting the game to be on the Beta team, and they did rosters on their own, and b) as shady as MLBPA is, I doubt they have time/money to sue some people over a couple copies of a $40 game given out for free that MAY INDIRECTLY link to people creating rosters.

While I'm glad you are enjoying OOTP 2007 and apparently do not share the same opinions as myself, this thread specifically asked those of us who HAVE NOT bought the game why we have chosen such. I gave my answer, and I don't see how that is me "not getting it".

[aphoward]

BTW, the simple answer is just to say the same thing a lot of other people are saying "real rosters were not promised for this game". Which while true, also has no bearing on me purchasing the game. I also didn't promise to purchase it, lol, so if you're going to not include features that have always been included in the past (like real rosters), then you can't pretend you don't realize why you are losing customers from the past.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by aphoward

so if you're going to not include features that have always been included in the past (like real rosters)

What version of OOTP ever came with "real rosters"?

[eMLBCommish]

Originally Posted by aphoward

BTW, the simple answer is just to say the same thing a lot of other people are saying "real rosters were not promised for this game". Which while true, also has no bearing on me purchasing the game. I also didn't promise to purchase it, lol, so if you're going to not include features that have always been included in the past (like real rosters), then you can't pretend you don't realize why you are losing customers from the past.

I suggest if you have an opinion, that you have the facts.

OOTP has never had real rosters come with it.

You can thank your friends of the Mod Squad for those.

And since you're hung up on the rosters are your selling point, you apparently prefer games like MLB 2k7 on a video game console. That's why you still don't get it.

To each their own, of course.

[Webslinger]

I would be willing to pay $50 for the following, so I can stop buying Baseball Mogul and Diamond Mind games:

1. MLB baseball players with full lefty/righty stats and ratings, real major league ballparks, real MLB rosters, etc. Yes, I am willing to pay extra for MLB licensing. I don't care about brushing back Joe Schmo fictional player. I care about being able to bean Barry Bonds. And yes, I know about Lahman's, but it's not the same (research the ratings; give full lefty/righty stats, etc.). Yes, I know I can download player produced MLB ballparks. I don't want to have to explain how to do all that stuff to a bunch of other people.

2. The capacity to have an online draft (obviously allowing the game to act as a server would be necessary) for team owners in online leagues.

3. The capacity to manage games head to head live vs other other team owners (and have the resulting stats updated for your online league automatically).

4. Give us "double play depth" as infield option.

5. Do you remember how stealing second with a runner already on third worked in Earl Weaver Baseball? If the throw went to second, the runner on third would consider coming home on that throw.

I realize the suggestions #2 and #3 may take a couple of years to develop, but those two features are really what I'm interested in.

If I may also make a further suggestion: it would be nice if OOTP would offer discounts for 5+, 10+, etc. purchases of the game (I'm interested in buying this stuff for online leagues--once the first 3 suggestions are implemented).

I miss the days of getting together with my friends to play Pursue the Pennant (board games) and creating our own league. Now everyone has moved apart and has jobs. So being able to manage against each other online would help out a lot (provided it's not just on a per game basis--but also updates results for the league).

Anyway, these are just some suggestions.

P.S. I did buy OOTP 2007 anyway, but I listed the things that are stopping me from buying 10 copies.

[Oxydizer]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

Nope, sorry wrong again. Most of our forums are free to view with no account needed.

Yeap, I concur with Marc. I was a lurker for several years, before finally registering in Jan 2007. You don't need to register to read the forums.

[Qrusher14242]

well some parts of the SI forums you cant read the posts without logging in. To read some of the topics, i have to log in. I think like the Graphics and the Editing forums.

[Oxydizer]

All due respect here, if your so hung up on real world rosters then why don't you get in touch with folks that make them and try to make a real world roster yourself, that way, you can make everyone happy!!

[Oxydizer]

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

well some parts of the SI forums you cant read the posts without logging in. To read some of the topics, i have to log in. I think like the Graphics and the Editing forums.

I think your in correct here, I just logged out, and the only topic you can't read if your not registered is the "off Topic" in general discussions. every thing else is available.

[JimiP]

Real life rosters are not an issue for me in purchasing or not purchasing the game. It has been more the -imo - the decline of the game overall from what it once was and offered. Tho someof the things now seem tobe better they come at the cost of other features that I deem important.
As someone above said - real life L v.R stats, double play depth, certain aspects that are inherant in the game that would make it more of a simulation than a fantasy based one.
i still waitin and watchin but one must realise the impact of lst version had on many many of buyers - whom may not even be writing in or reading these forums anymore, or have moved on to other SIMs.

[The Wolf]

Would it be illegal for a third party, say, a member of ths forum, to develop "real rosters" and keep them updated, and then to sell them for, say, $50 each?

I really don't know and am asking honestly. Before anyone jumps the gun, no, I'm don't ever want to do that, I was just asking a theoretical question.

[SandMan]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Would it be illegal for a third party, say, a member of ths forum, to develop "real rosters" and keep them updated, and then to sell them for, say, $50 each?

I really don't know and am asking honestly. Before anyone jumps the gun, no, I'm don't ever want to do that, I was just asking a theoretical question.

The only way to get around this is to have the rosters not be associated with any copyrighted image or legal trademard of any actual MLB or MiLB team. You could have a roster set that has players names and stats and then for team just call them NY N or CHI A or BAL A as long as you don't reference them as such in any documentation you give to the clients.

Now $50 is steep and it has already been shown in a poll that almost 90% would not purchase them. Now if you offered the sets at donation level and did not expect a windfall on these then you could do it as it has been done in the past. What is to stop one person buying your $50 roster set and then reselling it to 15 people at $5 or 100 people and then you would not sell any.

Just a reminder though that Jeff Cato made the best utility for the game and asked for donations and I will bet anything on it that over 98% of the people did not contribute and that his actual earnings per hour were less than 1 shiney penny. Most gamers that are used to getting it free would look at it as unethical to now start charging.

BTW, I play fictional leagues and have played a few solo leagues with MLB players but only using the Lahman DB. The real rosters are an interesting item, but all the ratings are subjective to author interpretation and I find it interesting when people complain that their favorite player is not rated where he should be or that he did not perform at the level that he did in real life after the season ends.... I can see why the roster makers are hesitant to put out these sets, plus now you have MLB, the minors and other leagues. Conservative estimate of about 5000 players through the Majors and Minors.
A difficult task.

For those that want the rosters why not do your own for you own favorite teams, or get 30 guys together each doing a Franchise and then put the work together as a project. 30 people will have 30 different opinions about the ratings, this will then show you how difficult it is for the roster makers to put out sets when you have hundreds, wanting a set but demanding the ratings to be to "Their" standards.


Just my


Regards,



Steve

[Webslinger]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Would it be illegal for a third party, say, a member of ths forum, to develop "real rosters" and keep them updated, and then to sell them for, say, $50 each?

I meant I would pay $50 for an OOTP that was licensed by MLB (with real rosters, real left/righty stats, real ballparks, real player pictures) and offered an online draft in addition to the capacity to manage head to head league games live against other team owners in an OOTP league.

I don't think I'd pay $50 in addition to the $35. That's getting pretty pricey.

It seems to me that OOTP could be offered at two different price levels: $35 for fantasy rosters and $50 for MLB licensed versions (I would really appreciate the other suggestions I mentioned being implemented in the next couple years; I'm not just writing this stuff to be a jerk. OOTP is getting close to everything that I want).

I generally buy 1 copy of a (decent) baseball game, just to help support development. But these are the things holding me back from buying multiple copies (for league play). I do also own Baseball Mogul 2008, and it doesn't do a lot of things as well as OOTP does (OOTP is a far deeper game, in my opinion)--but Mogul does have MLB licensing. I doubt many people would buy Mogul at all, if OOTP were MLB licensed.

[jbmagic]

If you want the game to have accurate rating for real players than OOTP has to change it ways how to edit.

I want to see where you can just enter the stats of the ball players and ootp comes up with the true rating for that player.

Right now its backwards in how it does it.

[SandMan]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

If you want the game to have accurate rating for real players than OOTP has to change it ways how to edit.

I want to see where you can just enter the stats of the ball players and ootp comes up with the true rating for that player.

Right now its backwards in how it does it.

The game has world templates, quick starts and other nice features. It would be so COOL to have an option to create a text file that has the stats, and ratings, and have the game import it into a roster template. But then have the option of exporting the file to make mass modifications if required. Would also be nice if the export showed expected stats with the ratings, not exact because of the variables involved but perhaps something similar to what OOTP5 had.

With the import method you can have different mod makers work on different sets or chose the set of your own liking. Just an idea, it maybe silly or it may be good, but sometime brainstorming works......