Clutch Rating?

[toxicavenger74]

Originally Posted by Erik W.

I'm well aware, thanks.

I'm curious to see why you think that's an argument against some players performing better than others in "clutch" situations. It seems to me that shows an example of someone playing to his absolute peak performance in a clutch situation, for the second time in his career.

This is exactly my point. Eckstein who is an average player overall performed at a higher level than normal within a short time frame. A-Rod who is one of the greatest of all-time has performed poorly within a short time frame. If we were to increase these sample sizes we would see the performances appear closer to their respective career averages.

[Claybor]

The injury rating is hidden? What if I want to modify it in a solo league? Hidden ratings in a game that we create the leagues ourselves is to put it simply asinine. I could see this if they were making all the player ratings, but they are not the community is, therefore we pretty much need to see EVERY rating.

[darkenigma510]

Originally Posted by Claybor

The injury rating is hidden? What if I want to modify it in a solo league? Hidden ratings in a game that we create the leagues ourselves is to put it simply asinine. I could see this if they were making all the player ratings, but they are not the community is, therefore we pretty much need to see EVERY rating.

Go into commissioner mode.

[Claybor]

OK, that makes sense if I can see it in commish mode, where is it though? I am in a demo league and I cant find this anywhere. I will dig around and find it eventually.

I still think GM's should be able to see this and it stinks that I wont be able to in online leagues, it makes little sense to hide this rating in my opinion.

Thanks

[EckManBangBang]

Well, looks like I really stepped in it on my second post. Thanks for not flaming me to death. Your responses do leave me with one question though... Hobbit Leagues??

[orwell]

Originally Posted by EckManBangBang

Probably a wish for '08, but the game needs this. Even arcade games ten years ago had a rating for better performance close and late. Or are there already ratings that influence this? Like maybe Work Ethic? I dunno, what do you guys think?

I can't remember what book it was in, but I read a long dissertation that employed pages of mathematical fireworks to "prove" that clutch hitting doesn't exist outside of perceptions.

Not that I agree. To me, choking is 100% real, and choking is obviously an aspect of clutch performance.

[orwell]

Originally Posted by orwell

I can't remember what book it was in, but I read a long dissertation that employed pages of mathematical fireworks to "prove" that clutch hitting doesn't exist outside of perceptions.

Not that I agree. To me, choking is 100% real, and choking is obviously an aspect of clutch performance.

Guess I should have read all the posts before replying. I now see that some mathemetical fireworks are threatening to erupt within this very thread.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger74

I don't want to get to silly about this and you bring up a point that as mentioned before is very much debated. Clutch implies that certain players have some mearsurable ability to perform at a statistically higher level in a given late inning critical situation.

I don't but it and my view is that what you are seeing is good/great players doing good/great baseball things such as hitting when it is their turn in the line up or with fielding when the baseball is hit in their general direction in the late innings of a baseball game. This also applies to poor/average players but since their average baseball performance is statistically at a lower level overall average/poor players will be "clutch" less often.

In my view, clutch does not exist and is somewhat silly as it is essentially saying this player "tries harder" in this situation. Players who are considered clutch are generally considered good to great ball players.

You have this backwards

Some people perform worse in pressure situations because of neurochemical factors that can inhibit the body from performing at its max level.

[Erik W.]

Originally Posted by orwell

Not that I agree. To me, choking is 100% real, and choking is obviously an aspect of clutch performance.

Exactly. I don't believe in "clutch," but I do believe in choking.

[darkenigma510]

Originally Posted by Claybor

OK, that makes sense if I can see it in commish mode, where is it though? I am in a demo league and I cant find this anywhere. I will dig around and find it eventually.

I still think GM's should be able to see this and it stinks that I wont be able to in online leagues, it makes little sense to hide this rating in my opinion.

Thanks

Go into the player editor. You can see all the real rating for your player including the injury ratings.

[darkenigma510]

Originally Posted by EckManBangBang

Well, looks like I really stepped in it on my second post. Thanks for not flaming me to death. Your responses do leave me with one question though... Hobbit Leagues??

You opened one can of worms today with the clutch question! Don't go there!

[Joshv02]

Originally Posted by EckManBangBang

Well, looks like I really stepped in it on my second post. Thanks for not flaming me to death. Your responses do leave me with one question though... Hobbit Leagues??

May be the best second post I've ever read.

[bababui]

It would be cool if Markus included periphiral factors like jet-lag that slightly affects on the field performance...evidence listed here

http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/32/2/101

British Journal of Sports Medicine, Vol 32, Issue 2 101-106, Copyright © 1998 by British Association of Sport and Medicine

Circadian rhythms, athletic performance, and jet lag



R Manfredini, F Manfredini, C Fersini and F Conconi
Dipartimento di Medicina Clinica e Sperimentale, Universita di Ferrara, Italy.

Rapid air travel across several time zones exposes the traveller to a shift<SUP> </SUP>in his/her internal biological clock. The result is a transient<SUP> </SUP>desynchronisation of the circadian rhythm, called jet lag, lasting until<SUP> </SUP>the rhythm is rephased to the new environmental conditions. The most<SUP> </SUP>commonly experienced symptoms are sleep disorders, difficulties with<SUP> </SUP>concentrating, irritability, depression, fatigue, disorientation, loss of<SUP> </SUP>appetite, and gastrointestinal disturbance. Apart from the decrements in<SUP> </SUP>mental and physical performance directly consequent on such symptoms,<SUP> </SUP>competitive athletes are also exposed to the additional negative<SUP> </SUP>consequences of a shift from the optimal circadian window of performance. A<SUP> </SUP>brief summary of the possible negative effects of jet lag on athletic<SUP> </SUP>performance and potentially alleviating strategies is given. </VARDEF>

[darkenigma510]

Originally Posted by Erik W.

Exactly. I don't believe in "clutch," but I do believe in choking.

I think its this choke factor which makes those players who perform well under pressure appear to be all the better, giving us the perception of their clutchness.

However, here is some more food for thought about clutchness: Perhaps all players have a range of potential they can play at but the norm is to perhaps play at 80-90% of that potential on average. People have some good days, some bads days, but overall, perhaps it can be said that no one can be 100% all the time. So, those "clutch" situations could be when that person operates at their maximum ability ("everything clicks" for them.) For a batter, this could comprise maximum ability to concentrate or optimal hand-eye co-ordination that day. Of course, this would stil mean the better players would be more likely than not to hit well in clutch situations.

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by bababui

It would be cool if Markus included periphiral factors like jet-lag that slightly affects on the field performance...evidence listed here

http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/32/2/101

From University of Georgia - Olympic Athletes and Jet Lag:

"Jet lag is a condition characterized by fatigue, dizziness, sleep loss, headaches and reduction of alertness. Although it is widely believed that jet lag impairs the performance of athletes, there are no consistent or compelling studies that offer reliable results."

[toxicavenger74]

Originally Posted by bababui

You have this backwards

Some people perform worse in pressure situations because of neurochemical factors that can inhibit the body from performing at its max level.

Are you saying that clutch is performing at a level that gives the expected result and therefore really means "performing as expected".

I would agree with the physiological explanation but only for one or two specific instances or at most for a game, not over an entire career.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by RonCo

From University of Georgia - Olympic Athletes and Jet Lag:

"Jet lag is a condition characterized by fatigue, dizziness, sleep loss, headaches and reduction of alertness. Although it is widely believed that jet lag impairs the performance of athletes, there are no consistent or compelling studies that offer reliable results."

The study quoted would beg to disagree

[Joshv02]

Originally Posted by bababui

It would be cool if Markus included periphiral factors like jet-lag that slightly affects on the field performance...evidence listed here

http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/32/2/101

Roffle!

There was a great study years ago by a well known poster on SoSH (Eric Van, since hired by the Sox on some basis) that tried to map this out on Jason Veritek's performance. He may, or may not, have been right - but in all events, that fueled a lot of funny japes.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger74

Are you saying that clutch is performing at a level that gives the expected result and therefore really means "performing as expected".

I would agree with the physiological explanation but only for one or two specific instances or at most for a game, not over an entire career.

This is a murky area. It is entirely possible that some people react much more favorably to the rush of adreneline in pressure situations. It might be possible for it to give someone a >100 boost to their baseline abilities. How many stories have we read about people performing above their percieved abilities in highly stressful situations? While others are crushed by them.

[toxicavenger74]

Originally Posted by EckManBangBang

Well, looks like I really stepped in it on my second post. Thanks for not flaming me to death. Your responses do leave me with one question though... Hobbit Leagues??

I'll take the blame for that, really its a good board of people who are passionate about baseball. So, at the end of the day we are all on the same team.

Intagibles always bring out the opinions, because well.....they are not measurable and in some peoples opinions do not exist in a way that affects the outcome of a competitive sport.