Freaky HBP totals in historical league

Tim N · 03-26-2007, 09:34 PM

Hi-- here's a weird one.

Playing the 1910 season of a historical league begun in 1909, with Lahman imported data.

One pitcher hit 11 batters in 3.2 innings, including 6 in one inning.

That pattern was repeated several times in lesser fashion (I've seen 6 HBp in one game several times).

The weird thing is that it's more dependent on the team at bat, not the pitcher. Some teams are hardly being hit at all. Or maybe it's a few players. But I didn't change any ratings from the import.

In other words, the Giants have been hit 106 times in 67 games. From there in the NL it goes 57, 43, 38, 38, 29, 16, and 5

Snodgrass has been hit 18 times, Meyers and Stahl 14, etc. Over a year this will lead to historic totals, which might be believable for one guy for not for five or six on the same team.

In the AL it is more normal but the Senators have only been hit 1 time!

Seems like small thing but it is seriously skewing the OBP in the Giants' favor, and against a few other teams.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Tim

Curtis · 03-26-2007, 11:16 PM

This does seem extreme. I wonder if it reflects reality. The Giants of that period were a thoroughly hated team, known for their 'dirty' style of play (think nine Ty Cobbs in the field). It's possible that the game is trying to show this… or it may be simple coincidence. There were a couple of other teams in the NL with 'dirty' reputations in this era, but not notably any in the AL. Just curious, is the top team for being hit in the AL around 35-40?

Tim N · 03-26-2007, 11:31 PM

The top AL team is currently at 29, which seems about right. What concerns me there is the Senators with 1 HBP in 65 games.

Also the bunching of enormous numbers of HBP in single games, or even innings. But I guess that could be the result of probability factors that bunch events in seemingly artificial ways that may even out over the course of a whole season.

Or maybe the Giants' dirty play so enraged the pitchers in question that they couldn't refrain from throwing at them, one batter after another.

Quick update: I checked retrosheet.org, and the 1910 Giants were hit 57 times all year, while the Senators were actually hit 82 times. So something definitely seems amiss--

Guess I'll continue playing out the season, and report totals with a larger sample.

Tim

thomamon · 04-08-2007, 11:04 PM

Tt 3329

03-26-2007, 09:34 PM	#1
Tim N Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 12	Freaky HBP totals in historical league Hi-- here's a weird one. Playing the 1910 season of a historical league begun in 1909, with Lahman imported data. One pitcher hit 11 batters in 3.2 innings, including 6 in one inning. That pattern was repeated several times in lesser fashion (I've seen 6 HBp in one game several times). The weird thing is that it's more dependent on the team at bat, not the pitcher. Some teams are hardly being hit at all. Or maybe it's a few players. But I didn't change any ratings from the import. In other words, the Giants have been hit 106 times in 67 games. From there in the NL it goes 57, 43, 38, 38, 29, 16, and 5 Snodgrass has been hit 18 times, Meyers and Stahl 14, etc. Over a year this will lead to historic totals, which might be believable for one guy for not for five or six on the same team. In the AL it is more normal but the Senators have only been hit 1 time! Seems like small thing but it is seriously skewing the OBP in the Giants' favor, and against a few other teams. Any ideas? Thanks! Tim Last edited by Tim N; 03-26-2007 at 09:35 PM.

03-26-2007, 11:31 PM	#3
Tim N Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 12	Maybe so, but.... The top AL team is currently at 29, which seems about right. What concerns me there is the Senators with 1 HBP in 65 games. Also the bunching of enormous numbers of HBP in single games, or even innings. But I guess that could be the result of probability factors that bunch events in seemingly artificial ways that may even out over the course of a whole season. Or maybe the Giants' dirty play so enraged the pitchers in question that they couldn't refrain from throwing at them, one batter after another. Quick update: I checked retrosheet.org, and the 1910 Giants were hit 57 times all year, while the Senators were actually hit 82 times. So something definitely seems amiss-- Guess I'll continue playing out the season, and report totals with a larger sample. Tim Last edited by Tim N; 03-26-2007 at 11:34 PM.

04-08-2007, 11:04 PM	#4
thomamon Global Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 5,274	Tt 3329 __________________ Thomas A. Montalto Please check out my Stupid Little Blog - http://www.stupidlittleblog.com

03-26-2007, 11:16 PM	#2
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	This does seem extreme. I wonder if it reflects reality. The Giants of that period were a thoroughly hated team, known for their 'dirty' style of play (think nine Ty Cobbs in the field). It's possible that the game is trying to show this… or it may be simple coincidence. There were a couple of other teams in the NL with 'dirty' reputations in this era, but not notably any in the AL. Just curious, is the top team for being hit in the AL around 35-40?