OOTP 2007 3 steps forward, 2 steps back...

Sirhawk · 03-27-2007, 02:46 AM

I have come to the realization that I am not going to be happy with OOTP for the short term. I mean, on one hand you have all of these cool innovations that I am discovering while playing the game. It has the highs of alot of customizations, face gen, the ability to really have alot more stats at hand, a more realistic managed game, and much much more....BUT...

Instead of just giving us more options and cool new additions, it seems to come at a price. Little things I got used to seem to be missing from this versus 6.5. For one, the substitutions are more click intensive to do the same sub(yes, Markus, it is more difficult...just go back and see 6.5...it more buttons, less sub menus.) The lineup pages are missing the key stats next to the batter when arranging the lineup, so I have to keep on looking at the batter list and double checking my work more than 6.5. The manager/owner relationship is gone...the option to choose to run like you are the baserunning coach is gone, and just the simple menu/brief leader board is gone.

These are just a few pluses and minuses I have found so far (and I am sure I am missing a few that I can't remember at the moment), but the point is: UNLESS IT WAS A TOTAL MISTAKE TO BEGIN WITH, WHY DO WE HAVE TO SACRIFICE THESE COOL FEATURES FROM OOTP 6.5 AND EARLIER, IN ORDER TO GET A FEW NEW ONES???

Now, I am torn...do I try and deal with this issue nuances of 2007 or now go back to 6.5 and find alot of the new features in 2007 missing? I mean, an upgrade should be that: and upgrade. Right now, I see as 3 steps forward, but 2 steps back. Grrrrr....makes one wish he could have both......don't ya think????

Sirhawk

Queensryche · 03-27-2007, 03:10 AM

3 steps forward and 2 steps back is an improvement,so I don't quite get your point.

Sirhawk · 03-27-2007, 03:15 AM

The point is simple: yes, it is better in manny ways, but alot of what was good with 6.5 is missing....most upgrades keep what was in it and just adds to it. This, however, removed alot of minor playability upgrades that made the game more fun. Make sense?

Sirhawk

Queensryche · 03-27-2007, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirhawk

The point is simple: yes, it is better in manny ways, but alot of what was good with 6.5 is missing....most upgrades keep what was in it and just adds to it. This, however, removed alot of minor playability upgrades that made the game more fun. Make sense?

Sirhawk

It still doesn't make sense. You're saying you're torn on wether or not you want to go back to 6.5,and yet you yourself stated that 2007 took 3 steps forward 2 steps back,which means it's an improvement. So why would you consider going back to a product that is inferior to the new one?

fantom1979 · 03-27-2007, 03:26 AM

I see your point exactly. Why do you have to take things out of the game that people enjoy in order to add new features.

Take Madden football for example. All the way up to Madden 2005 (i think this is the right year), you had custom playbooks. The online community did not care much for them because they couldn't be used in online play. But my friends and I had a "pass the memory card" franchise going on and part of the fun was seeing what kind of innovative plays we could come up with. When Madden 2006 came out, there were all kinds of new bells and whistles, but they removed the custom playbooks. Why did the game have to remove a feature to add new ones?

Sirhawk · 03-27-2007, 03:27 AM

Because the issues that are in 2007 are annoying.....it is like this: Let's pretend you go to a restaraunt and you buy the same meal every time and then they change the sides on your dish and change the sauce....you like the 2 sides alot better, but the new sauce is just not nearly as good....which plate of food would you rather have?

I mean, yes, I am sure overall 2007 is a better game, but the items removed make it hard for me to truly love 2007...and yet as you said, it is a better game than before, but why can't I have the best of both games??? That was my point: keep the good of 6.5 along with all the new improvements. Make sense now? If not, I guess you are just easier to please.....I like to see improvements without the sacrifice of other benefits from a previous version.

Sirhawk

Markus Heinsohn · 03-27-2007, 03:43 AM

1.) Substitutions are NOT different to 6.5, I just tried it.
2.) I changed the lineup page because 95% of the beta team was in favor of the change and wanted the depth charts & lineups on a single screen.
3.) I don't know what you mean with "simple menu/leader board", can you explain?
4.) The manager/owner model is in there, but just different.

I say it once again: I did not take features out of the game... the game not shares a single line of code with OOTP 6.5, everything was recoded, so decisions had to be made. One of those decisions was to leave the baserunning control out because the manager in real life cannot yell at the runner to take the extra base

Claymore · 03-27-2007, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

One of those decisions was to leave the baserunning control out because the manager in real life cannot yell at the runner to take the extra base

Just a quick comment on this point. This is true, but a team manager has no control over minor league rosters, or the ability to trade players/sign contract extensions, but these are all possible with ootp. Managers DO work closely with their third/first base coaches, and it would be cool as an option to give us the ability to send the runner for that extra base.

Also, some managers green light their baserunners to steal a base at their own discretion, the manager doesnt order the exact count. It would be a great strategy option to allow this.

Just my two cents...

Sirhawk · 03-27-2007, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

1.) Substitutions are NOT different to 6.5, I just tried it.

The difference is this: in 6.5 you click substitution (same on both versions), then the diffe is that you either click on pitchers or batters in 6.5 and you are ready to substitute, whereas in 2007 you have to change the drop down to pitchers, then change the drop down to pitchers stats......it is just an extra step that does take more time...does that make sense?

2.) I changed the lineup page because 95% of the beta team was in favor of the change and wanted the depth charts & lineups on a single screen.

Ok, that is fine, but can't you have the lineup have their BA/HR/RBI total next to it? The reason is, yes, I have the 9 guys I want in, but I may want to switch their order around and seeing those key stats next to my guy in the lineup helps me decide that without looking up at the whole batting roster. I like the depth chart there...that is indeed good...just those 3 stats next to the guys to help us make the lineups faster.

3.) I don't know what you mean with "simple menu/leader board", can you explain?

Ok, you answered my question the other day about the standings/league leaders on the league home page and yes, it is suitable in 2007, but it is just lacking compared to the old way IMO. The reason is that A: I don't have to scroll down to see all of the info in 6.5 and B: It seems more centered to the eye when the standings are in the middle and the league leaders are neatly next to them on each corresponding side....just easier to digest.

4.) The manager/owner model is in there, but just different.

I say it once again: I did not take features out of the game... the game not shares a single line of code with OOTP 6.5, everything was recoded, so decisions had to be made. One of those decisions was to leave the baserunning control out because the manager in real life cannot yell at the runner to take the extra base

I understand Markus, and I knew you would answer this portion this way

, but the average consumer will say "hey, why is this missing?, why is that missing? Didn't I pay 34.99 for those features last year and now they are missing??" . I know you are trying to make the best out of it by starting from square one with this new company, and I DO support you (since OOTP3), but becasue you started the code over doesn't mean you should omit what was good from 6.5.....in that case, it would be wiser to change the name of the game completely. Anyways, I know you discussed the base running option as unrealistic, but it did add the fun factor into managing. I am just here to make this game the best you can make it with my minor gripes

Sirhawk

Sirhawk · 03-27-2007, 04:06 AM

Oops...my replies are in your quote.....sorry

Sirhawk

Markus Heinsohn · 03-27-2007, 04:09 AM

I do agree on the selected view in the in-game screen. I will fix this in the first patch, it will remember your view

Sirhawk · 03-27-2007, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I do agree on the selected view in the in-game screen. I will fix this in the first patch, it will remember your view

You mean on the substitutions? I am a little lost on your comment.

Sirhawk

Markus Heinsohn · 03-27-2007, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirhawk

You mean on the substitutions? I am a little lost on your comment.

Sirhawk

Yes

It will default to the proper position (batters or pitchers) depending if you are on offense/defense, and also remember your preferred view for the situation.

Sirhawk · 03-27-2007, 04:20 AM

Sweet! That is good news.....did you get my point about the roster/depth and the stats next to the guy in the lineup?

Sirhawk

Markus Heinsohn · 03-27-2007, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirhawk

Sweet! That is good news.....did you get my point about the roster/depth and the stats next to the guy in the lineup?

Sirhawk

Yeah, but there is no space left for stats... so it is either stats or depth

Sirhawk · 03-27-2007, 04:25 AM

I guess it depends on the resolution. I have mine set at 1600x1050, so lots of extra real estate for that. Could be just a benny for those using the higher res?

Sirhawk

onnel · 03-27-2007, 04:27 AM

I hope you'll look in to mouse overs for just such problems...for next year, of course!

Onnel

Sirhawk · 03-27-2007, 04:28 AM

Hey, that is a good idea!...though I like the idea of having them all present with just a larger res. showing them.

Sirhawk

Sven Draconian · 03-27-2007, 04:31 AM

My biggest gripe is the Roster screen. Why does it have to be an uninformative HTML? I miss the 6.5 "home" roster screen, where when I click on a team I have stats on the left, I have my columns I can sort and categories to change. Switch between all my levels on it and be able to sort those.

Now I can't see my team leaders, upcoming schedule and sort out tired players, ratings and stats all on one screen.

At the very least I wish we could have the sortable roster screen as the default instead of the HTML one. The extra click to get there is just a waste of time, since the HTML displays almost nothing of value.

Erik W. · 03-27-2007, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claymore

Just a quick comment on this point. This is true, but a team manager has no control over minor league rosters, or the ability to trade players/sign contract extensions, but these are all possible with ootp. Managers DO work closely with their third/first base coaches, and it would be cool as an option to give us the ability to send the runner for that extra base.

Also, some managers green light their baserunners to steal a base at their own discretion, the manager doesnt order the exact count. It would be a great strategy option to allow this.

Just my two cents...

But at the major league level in this game, you're not the manager, you're the GM. Just look at your personnel screen.

As for the baserunner stealing greenlight, I'm with you 100%, and I've been asking for that since OOTP3.

03-27-2007, 02:46 AM	#1
Sirhawk Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 96	OOTP 2007 3 steps forward, 2 steps back... I have come to the realization that I am not going to be happy with OOTP for the short term. I mean, on one hand you have all of these cool innovations that I am discovering while playing the game. It has the highs of alot of customizations, face gen, the ability to really have alot more stats at hand, a more realistic managed game, and much much more....BUT... Instead of just giving us more options and cool new additions, it seems to come at a price. Little things I got used to seem to be missing from this versus 6.5. For one, the substitutions are more click intensive to do the same sub(yes, Markus, it is more difficult...just go back and see 6.5...it more buttons, less sub menus.) The lineup pages are missing the key stats next to the batter when arranging the lineup, so I have to keep on looking at the batter list and double checking my work more than 6.5. The manager/owner relationship is gone...the option to choose to run like you are the baserunning coach is gone, and just the simple menu/brief leader board is gone. These are just a few pluses and minuses I have found so far (and I am sure I am missing a few that I can't remember at the moment), but the point is: UNLESS IT WAS A TOTAL MISTAKE TO BEGIN WITH, WHY DO WE HAVE TO SACRIFICE THESE COOL FEATURES FROM OOTP 6.5 AND EARLIER, IN ORDER TO GET A FEW NEW ONES??? Now, I am torn...do I try and deal with this issue nuances of 2007 or now go back to 6.5 and find alot of the new features in 2007 missing? I mean, an upgrade should be that: and upgrade. Right now, I see as 3 steps forward, but 2 steps back. Grrrrr....makes one wish he could have both......don't ya think???? Sirhawk

03-27-2007, 03:26 AM	#5
fantom1979 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 3,498	I see your point exactly. Why do you have to take things out of the game that people enjoy in order to add new features. Take Madden football for example. All the way up to Madden 2005 (i think this is the right year), you had custom playbooks. The online community did not care much for them because they couldn't be used in online play. But my friends and I had a "pass the memory card" franchise going on and part of the fun was seeing what kind of innovative plays we could come up with. When Madden 2006 came out, there were all kinds of new bells and whistles, but they removed the custom playbooks. Why did the game have to remove a feature to add new ones? __________________

03-27-2007, 03:10 AM	#2
Queensryche Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 453	3 steps forward and 2 steps back is an improvement,so I don't quite get your point.

03-27-2007, 03:15 AM	#3
Sirhawk Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 96	The point is simple: yes, it is better in manny ways, but alot of what was good with 6.5 is missing....most upgrades keep what was in it and just adds to it. This, however, removed alot of minor playability upgrades that made the game more fun. Make sense? Sirhawk

03-27-2007, 03:27 AM	#6
Sirhawk Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 96	Because the issues that are in 2007 are annoying.....it is like this: Let's pretend you go to a restaraunt and you buy the same meal every time and then they change the sides on your dish and change the sauce....you like the 2 sides alot better, but the new sauce is just not nearly as good....which plate of food would you rather have? I mean, yes, I am sure overall 2007 is a better game, but the items removed make it hard for me to truly love 2007...and yet as you said, it is a better game than before, but why can't I have the best of both games??? That was my point: keep the good of 6.5 along with all the new improvements. Make sense now? If not, I guess you are just easier to please.....I like to see improvements without the sacrifice of other benefits from a previous version. Sirhawk

03-27-2007, 03:43 AM	#7
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	1.) Substitutions are NOT different to 6.5, I just tried it. 2.) I changed the lineup page because 95% of the beta team was in favor of the change and wanted the depth charts & lineups on a single screen. 3.) I don't know what you mean with "simple menu/leader board", can you explain? 4.) The manager/owner model is in there, but just different. I say it once again: I did not take features out of the game... the game not shares a single line of code with OOTP 6.5, everything was recoded, so decisions had to be made. One of those decisions was to leave the baserunning control out because the manager in real life cannot yell at the runner to take the extra base

03-27-2007, 04:06 AM	#10
Sirhawk Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 96	Oops...my replies are in your quote.....sorry Sirhawk

03-27-2007, 04:09 AM	#11
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	I do agree on the selected view in the in-game screen. I will fix this in the first patch, it will remember your view

03-27-2007, 04:20 AM	#14
Sirhawk Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 96	Sweet! That is good news.....did you get my point about the roster/depth and the stats next to the guy in the lineup? Sirhawk

03-27-2007, 04:25 AM	#16
Sirhawk Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 96	I guess it depends on the resolution. I have mine set at 1600x1050, so lots of extra real estate for that. Could be just a benny for those using the higher res? Sirhawk

03-27-2007, 04:27 AM	#17
onnel Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 212	I hope you'll look in to mouse overs for just such problems...for next year, of course! Onnel

03-27-2007, 04:28 AM	#18
Sirhawk Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 96	Hey, that is a good idea!...though I like the idea of having them all present with just a larger res. showing them. Sirhawk

03-27-2007, 04:31 AM	#19
Sven Draconian Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 432	My biggest gripe is the Roster screen. Why does it have to be an uninformative HTML? I miss the 6.5 "home" roster screen, where when I click on a team I have stats on the left, I have my columns I can sort and categories to change. Switch between all my levels on it and be able to sort those. Now I can't see my team leaders, upcoming schedule and sort out tired players, ratings and stats all on one screen. At the very least I wish we could have the sortable roster screen as the default instead of the HTML one. The extra click to get there is just a waste of time, since the HTML displays almost nothing of value.