Impressions thread for people who really, really didn't like 2006

[bogieman]

Battist I am going to have to argue with you on a couple of points on the schedules and importing.

1. Schedules would not be a problem because they would be imported they won't need to be generated.

2. I have generated balanced schedules with odd number of teams. The issue seems to be that you have to set the games higher than what you want played. I had to set the schedule to 90 games to get a 72 game balanced schedule for a 5 team league. Obviously this screws up the magic number but the team in front is still declared the league champion at the end of the season. I have also seen a one game playoff occur for a tie.

As to not allowing imports because not being able to create good ratings for seasons before 1901.

1. Why does the install files for the financial, era adjustments and era_stats all include data from 1871. If you create a fictional league with a start date of 1871 and set it to load the historical adjustments those numbers will match the entries for 1871.

2. Even if the ratings cannot be accurately created why not just give us the ability to import from 1871. I would rather be able to create a league and tinker with the settings then to jump through hoops just to setup the league. Luckily I have a starter 1871 league created in OOTP2006. I just have to play around with the settings to get everything to work.

Now for something good:

I just simmed 50 years from 1901 and was very impressed with the accuracy and speed. I was churning through the seasons every 2 to 3 minutes. I was not creating almanacs or saving game logs or box scores, but doing yearly saves. Which I found doesn't just save the current year but all the historical data also. For those who want to know my system specs are XP Pro, AMD Athlon 64 3200, 2GB 3200 DDR2, 500GB disk raid 0, ATI x1300 512MB.

A few highlights from the 50 year run:

Babe Ruth played his whole career with Pittsburgh. 1919 he pops 29 home runs, gee sound familiar. 1920 his breakout year hit 64, real life 54, and 1921 61 instead of 59. Never reached 60 again. Interestingly ended up 741. Ty Cobb batted only .339 lifetime but had over 5000 hits. Honus Wagner got exactly 3000 hits, batted .298 but never made it to the HOF. Walter Johnson won and lost over 300 games with 3100 K's and the most shutouts with 58. Cy Young the most wins at 478 oddly the number 2 guy with 420 wins was Jim St. Vrain who in real life pitched 1 season, 1902, with Cubs and was 4-6.

One thing was sort of amusing was Ted Williams played for Boston and Stan Musial was playing for St. Louis but of the opposite leagues. And they were dominating their respective leagues, Ted winning 2 triple crowns and Stan winning 1.

Except for a couple anomalies the players you would expect to be on top of the lead boards were there.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by bogieman

1. Why does the install files for the financial, era adjustments and era_stats all include data from 1871. If you create a fictional league with a start date of 1871 and set it to load the historical adjustments those numbers will match the entries for 1871.

I wrote the financials file. The original only went back as far as 1901. I made it go back to 1871 due to popular demand. Some of the data in that file, like avg attendance, is made up because there is no real data. So, I used the first data available, copied it, and pasted it back to 1871.

I was trying to be helpful to a really hard to support era of baseball.

[battists]

Well, Bogieman, you can argue with me all you want, it's no skin off of my nose. I have no data to support my claims.

That was just what I recalled hearing from prior conversations, and I wasn't sure whether you had heard that before.

So, take it at face value, FWIW.

I'm sorry the game doesn't support 1871 in the way you wish...

[waltwa]

i posted early on this topic. i since have been playing the game and while i think i have a lot to learn about the inner workings it is a major improvement over 2006. The fun factor is back! There is one thing i don't like and that is the scoreboard pages but only in the sense that i think they can be done better. But overall i am really enjoying the game.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by waltwa

i posted early on this topic. i since have been playing the game and while i think i have a lot to learn about the inner workings it is a major improvement over 2006. The fun factor is back! There is one thing i don't like and that is the scoreboard pages but only in the sense that i think they can be done better. But overall i am really enjoying the game.

OK, I'll bite. Please explain why the scoreboard pages need help. If you don't like it, there must be 10 others like you.

[battists]

Originally Posted by waltwa

i posted early on this topic. i since have been playing the game and while i think i have a lot to learn about the inner workings it is a major improvement over 2006. The fun factor is back! There is one thing i don't like and that is the scoreboard pages but only in the sense that i think they can be done better. But overall i am really enjoying the game.

That's really great to hear waltwa, because I know you'd been struggling with it. I hope you can enjoy this game! Keep the suggestions coming. (And answer Raidergoo's question... )

[ravinhood]

I didn't get 2006 because of all the bad vibes and comments it got from several different places. I usually don't buy a game upon release anyways. I wait and read what most have to say. But, well, the blogs got me on this one. The spring training changes (something I always asked for) and that ole "improved AI" got me. lol

As for me, I'm having issues with the new interface vs the old HTML pages. I much preferred them over click on this for this PIECE of information and click this for this PIECE of information an on an on when the old HTML pages of 6.5a had all that information on ONE page and you just scrolled it. The black n white pages for me were actually easier to read as well.

Many things are ok and kewl, but, I'd move to go back to showing player information ALL ON ONE PAGE again. That's the way 6.5a was and that's just what I got used to and found much easier to use without getting lost or having to press 10000 buttons a season.

[battists]

Originally Posted by ravinhood

I didn't get 2006 because of all the bad vibes and comments it got from several different places. I usually don't buy a game upon release anyways. I wait and read what most have to say. But, well, the blogs got me on this one. The spring training changes (something I always asked for) and that ole "improved AI" got me. lol

As for me, I'm having issues with the new interface vs the old HTML pages. I much preferred them over click on this for this PIECE of information and click this for this PIECE of information an on an on when the old HTML pages of 6.5a had all that information on ONE page and you just scrolled it. The black n white pages for me were actually easier to read as well.

Many things are ok and kewl, but, I'd move to go back to showing player information ALL ON ONE PAGE again. That's the way 6.5a was and that's just what I got used to and found much easier to use without getting lost or having to press 10000 buttons a season.

Ravinhood, I realize this is a workaround, but since you seem to prefer the html pages, why not navigate through the Team Home page a lot? If you click on a player in there, it defaults to the HTML page... Just a thought.

[Zitofan75]

I'll pop in here for a moment. I did like 2006, in part because I think I was reacting to the potential of things more than the game itself. Plus 6.51 had seemed to be too similar to previous versions to excite me. That said, I love 2007 so far. I really love facegen and creating the unis and all of that. It feels far more immersive then any version of OOTP. And for me, that is key. To make this history as real as possible.

[bogieman]

When I said argue I meant in a friendly way .

Raidergoo, I know what you mean. I went through numerous sources to do the same thing for 2006. I totally understand and acknowledge the problems with starting before 1901. So this will be the last time I will bring it up, in this thread . I just thought that maybe just to allow the import would be possible.

[ravinhood]

Originally Posted by battists

Ravinhood, I realize this is a workaround, but since you seem to prefer the html pages, why not navigate through the Team Home page a lot? If you click on a player in there, it defaults to the HTML page... Just a thought.

Thanks so much Battists. Now if you could just add or put something where I right click on a players page and it goes back to the home page/player listing page or I right click and it and it brings up a menu where I can right click on "back" instead of having to click on those arrow buttons every time I want to go back to the home page/player listing page that would be awesome.

What you have shown me is exactly what I wanted. lol But, I still gotta hassle with clicking on that arrow button instead of just a quick "right click" and back to the home page/player listing page I go. Man I was losing my mind trying to figure out what button I pressed to do what after I got there and wanted to go back and do something else. lol

I still haven't played a game yet, but, I'm getting there. I've found something else I can't figure out how to do or if it's possible. How do you "scout" the "amateur draft pool" of players with ones personal scout(s)?

I should say there are things I'm enjoying about this version so you don't think I completely hate it or sumthin. The FacGen is excellent. The AI so far appears to be making reasonable trades based on the setting (hard) that I selected. I noticed on normal though it was offering me trades to what I felt was to my advantage a 27 year old good player for a 38 year old fair player and a crummy minor leaguer?? This was something in all the rest of the OOTP's that I felt needed some major adjustments. Calculating or (secretly knowing) how long a player is going to remain a decent player. I'm hoping this has been addressed in 2007. I really don't mind the AI cheating somewhat in trades and decision making because in the past it's mostly made rediculous decisions and paid too much or traded too much away for old outdated players.

The "Make it happen now" trade feature is a dream come true. You don't know how many countless hours sometimes I spent trying to find a trade deal that would work for the player I wanted. That "force trade" button is a nice feature also, but, it's also a "temptation" as well when I reeeealy want a certain player and the AI say's you have "nobody that could make this deal work" that sort pisses me off hahah.

I think once I get used to ALL THE BUTTONS I might enjoy it more. It just seemed in 6.5a there was a lot less button pushing or things you had to do to get to a certain area of the game. Like now having to select a minor league from the drop down menu THEN having to select the dang team out of the team name drop down menu...why not just have it go directly to the minor league you selected intead of this double clicking method? I would like to use the pull down for AAA league and it automatically loads into my screen my AAA team, I shouldn't have to load the team as well. This should work for the others as well AA and A and any others I create. Just suggestions (well an a lil griping haha).

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by ravinhood

Like now having to select a minor league from the drop down menu THEN having to select the dang team out of the team name drop down menu...why not just have it go directly to the minor league you selected intead of this double clicking method?

Well, why don't you? In the lower right corner of the screen is a popup menu of all of your affiliated minors. Use it. (If you're already on one of your minors it becomes a list of all the minors plus the parent club.)

[ravinhood]

Originally Posted by Curtis

Well, why don't you? In the lower right corner of the screen is a popup menu of all of your affiliated minors. Use it. (If you're already on one of your minors it becomes a list of all the minors plus the parent club.)

Lol now it's getting more rediculous then. First there's a feature in the TOP LEFT hand corner to select the leagues. Now, you're telling me there's a feature in the LOWER RIGHT hand corner of the screen that goes directly to the team? hahaha See how confusing that gets?

BTW that's what I wanted so thanks for showing me where it was. So many damn buttons to go here and there. That's the only issue I have with this game so far. Just too many buttons.

[EagleEye_0]

Looks good, I just skipped 2006 completely, I'll have to pick this up when I have some free time.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by ravinhood

I still haven't played a game yet, but, I'm getting there. I've found something else I can't figure out how to do or if it's possible. How do you "scout" the "amateur draft pool" of players with ones personal scout(s)?

When the scout pool gets released, go to its page. There will be a scout pool button. Click it and assign one or more scout to scout the pool. I send all of mine to do so.

[battists]

Ravinhood,

You can also hit the backspace key to go back a page, if that helps...

[blubbla]

I completely skipped 06 based off of all the negative reaction I was seeing, , after originally getting OOTP3 in the STB incarnation, and then owning every version thru 6.5.

My early reaction to OOTP2007: This is a true successor to 6.5. While there's a ton of difference, I feel I can get used to them. I play primarily historical and love the feel of the different customization, that I can have the players change at they truly did (like the Babe - 63 HR in 1921 in my first run).

One old thing that I saw crop up was the fact that when Babe because a FA in 1923, he was not signed by anyone, and still had not in 1925. However, I deducted that part of my problem there was the fact that I only had 1 minor league, and my leagues were overrun with players by the early 20s. My mistake, not programming, I'm sure. As soon as I find out what's under the hood so to speak, I'll be able to get better mileage.

Great job on the game thus far!

[ravinhood]

Originally Posted by battists

Ravinhood,

You can also hit the backspace key to go back a page, if that helps...

Lol Battists that's as bad as having to click on the left/right arrows. Cmon we are LAZY gamers we want to do as MUCH AS POSSIBLE WITH OUR MOUSE!! I almost wish mouse's came with gamepad buttons on the frontal portion of them so we could hotkey them to things in games. I really hate using the keyboard except to type like now. lol

Oh lol I said frontal portion of the mouse, well you see somehow someway back in my very early days of using a computer I never could get used to using the mouse the "normal" way most everyone else does. I have to use mine BACKWARDS, in other words my buttons are at the BACK of the mouse and the left mouse button is actually the right mouse button and the right mouse button is on the left. lol I think commodore 64's and joysticks and playing flight simulator games did this to me. I have to push up to go down and pull down to go up and push right to go left and left to go right sotospeak. lol So when I say frontal I have all this space on my mouse that could have buttons (this is the place the rest of you rest your palms. lol) I've been using a mouse this way for 15 years now lol and I can't break the habit no matter how hard I try. It's just awkward as hell trying to use the mouse the way most of you do. My son, haha, he uses it the same way because Daddy did it this way. lol

[hanoiball]

Originally Posted by Erithtotl

At the risk of getting flamed...

I really didn't like 2006. I couldn't enjoy the game at all. And I'm not one of those 'I just want 6.5 with bug-fixes' types. I just thought the new UI was terrible and that most of the features in 2006 were not thought out or implemented properly in the way that made a fun game. I've spent 100s of hours on OOTP since version 3 or 4, and I'm also a big Football Manager player as well.

With all that out of the way, I really, really want to like 2007. But I feel burnt by last year's version, badly, and I didn't sign up for any of the pre-order discounts because 'fool me once, shame on me...'

What I'd like is for this thread to be a place where people who felt similar disappointment in 2006, but bought 2007 can post their impressions. My hope is that these will be positive, enough so that those of us who were on the fence can feel comfortable making the leap to 2007. But I'd obviously what I want is real, honest impressions, and hopefully thoughtful ones as well (no 'It sucks' or 'It rocks' knee-jerk stuff).

I'm very much in the same boat as described above. Liked previous versions through 6.5, really disliked 2006, with the UI being a big issue. The one difference is that I might be in the "wanted 6.5 with bug fixes crowd," if that means bug fixes, AI enhancement, and some solid new features with each new edition. I.e., building on a good foundation as opposed to the total overhaul that occurred, which I personally found to do far more harm than good.

But since they're obviously not about to unring that bell I decided to give the 2007 demo a whirl. Lasted about an hour and gave up. Here's why:


-- The UI might be a little more intuitive now but it is still far too hard on the eyes for me, once you get past the sharp splash screen. The "team logos", the solid-color circles with the three-letter city abbreviations, are just ugly. The autoplay baseball is now rectangular. There are still too many exclamation marks all over the place! Exclamation marks are for teenage girls' diaries!! Not baseball sims that put themselves up as the most "serious" of their genre!!!

But most importantly, the standings/information screen that pops up when you're simming -- which is often for me, because I've never been one to play out individual games a lot -- is shocking, really. It's a glaring blast of whiteness with a microscopic font size used for the standings, tightly packed together for maximum un-readability, and the ill-advised inclusion of the "wild-card race" from the very beginning of the season. Seems to me there is no such thing as a wild-card race until at least August.

-- The league creation wizard is better, but too bad about the ongoing MLB licensing issue or whatever it is that forces me to enter all the team nicknames manually.

-- The demo itself is a nuisance because it seems about every game-week you get nagged to go to the website. So it happens over and over again between the inaugural draft and spring training, when it seems there is little else to do but fast-forward. I realize they have to make their money but doing it this way just adds to the poor first impression. It's already time-limited anyway (21 days I think).

-- I like to sign "good attitude" players but the loyalty/greed/desire for winning team ratings make no sense to me. Many players have high numbers in all three. Seems to me if a player is very loyal, that *must* mean he could not be especially greedy (for money or wins), or what could it mean?

-- Maybe I just couldn't figure out the way to do this but in both 06 and 07 I find all my inaugural draftees are signing contracts with my team automatically. OK, maybe I couldn't negotiate any better, and I wouldn't want to go through all 200 of the drafted players, but I still find it odd that it's taken out of my control.

-- I'm stunned that there is still no default view for the pitching and lineup screens, or a way to set it. So if you're in pitching, pick "pitching stats 1" from the drop-down menu, then go to lineups (i.e. hitters), you're still looking at pitching stats. I can't understand how this weakness survived a few patches in the 2006 edition, never mind still being unaddressed in the new one.

-- Nice to have those Help pages. Too bad so many of them are blank. Is this just in the demo?

-- I get a player on waivers and it says he is in the DFA section of my roster when in fact he has been put on the Triple A team roster already.

-- Meanwhile I still have absolutely zero interest in playing the Venezuelan winter league or any other "world" league, and can't imagine why anyone would. And therefore wonder how much the effort to include all those extra leagues has detracted from focusing on the core game. This league-loading stuff is great in Football Manager (aka Worldwide Soccer), because it makes sense for the sport, but baseball is obviously different. Has there ever been a poll on how many users actually play non-US leagues? (And no I'm not American either.)

OK, so this is all inside of one hour, maybe 90 minutes tops. I didn't even make it to opening day. I post this not only to vent -- though I admit that's one reason, I miss the game and am deeply disappointed with the direction it's taken -- but maybe there are some answers to the above issues (downloadable goodniks that can help the look of the UI?).

Like the OP I wish to like the game and want to avoid a snap-dismissal of the entire franchise, but I find myself teetering on the brink.

[Go Tribe]

I just want to be able to start up a 2007 league with real players, pretty accurate ratings and contracts, real minor leaguers and a real schedule.

I'm on vacation right now with very limited internet access (thanks Disney for the $10 a day raping). Can I easily do what I want in my opening sentence????

Last years debacle with real rosters was a joke - has this been fixed for 2007?

thanks