Coaches in '07 vs real life

CBL-Commish · 03-06-2007, 03:23 PM

In OOTP I've always gotten the feeling that coaches, scouts, and managers were treated very similarly to players. The good ones are rather scarce, they all desperately want the most money and to coach on the best teams, and they often switch teams.

But it seems to me that in real life there are hundreds or thousands of former major and minor league players chomping at the bit for jobs. If a team fires their hitting coach they rarely get into a bidding war for a new one, they typically just find a guy in their system or someone else's system who seems like they might make a good hitting coach and they sign them up.

Coaches and scouts don't get into big free agent battles, and often managers don't either. I know the Orioles better than any other team, so maybe I don't have a big world view on this, but Elrod Hendricks was the bullpen coach for almost 30 years. I'm pretty sure he signed 30 one-year deals for whatever the team thought was fair. Nobody every competed with the O's - Elrod was just an organizational guy who was happy with his job. Ray Miller was the O's pitching coach for a generation. Not until the Twins offered him a manager's job did he even think about leaving. Rick Dempsey has been a coach off and on for years, and he only left when the team told him to (and even then he comes back to hang out at spring training). When they do dump someone off the staff they're typically replaced with another guy in the organization, and when they do go outside the system there's never mention of a bidding war. This year Juan Samuel just showed up as a coach, I'm betting they didn't get him by luring him away from his old team with money and promises and tours of the city.

It just seems to me that OOTP is designed with a bunch of money hungry coaches and scouts who'll switch teams on a moment's notice for an extra $1000 a year. But in real life some significant % of coaches couldn't care less what their salary was as long as they have a job with the team they like. They'll essentially have their contract on autorenew for as long as they're welcome.

Is this still the mode of operation in 2007? Does anyone else think this is an accurate description of OOTP and the real world, or am I off base here?

chimanbj · 03-06-2007, 03:31 PM

Coaches have families to feed, you know...

I've often wondered if coaches get better over time, or once they have a rating, that's where they stay. It's really hard to get a good coach to work for a low-minors team. And since you can't really make an offer, it's even harder. All you can do is off the job, and they'll tell if they want the job or not...and that's it....

It's not terribly realistic, but I think it works for the purposes of this GAME

jlredsox · 03-06-2007, 03:42 PM

Yea, this is why I generally turn off coaches. I just hate the process of trying to fill all the coaching positions. It's not realistic that a AA pitching coach with below average skills, is going to just walk away from a position. It would be nice if you could just automatically just offer a contract to coaches throughout your whole system.

CBL-Commish · 03-06-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlredsox

Yea, this is why I generally turn off coaches. I just hate the process of trying to fill all the coaching positions. It's not realistic that a AA pitching coach with below average skills, is going to just walk away from a position. It would be nice if you could just automatically just offer a contract to coaches throughout your whole system.

I'd really like it if 80% of your minor league coaches and maybe 40-50% of your major league coaches had a personality attribute set to "I'm ok where I am" and you could essentially resign them forever if you wanted.

You'd still have a few Rick Petersons who'd go elsewhere when their contracts are up, and you'd have quite a few managers who bounced around. But for the most part a coach would want to sign with a team he played for, and most of them would stay there until fired or retired.

dankrzyz · 03-06-2007, 04:20 PM

Can we get more information on what stats are kept for coaches? I see that manager wins are recorded - awesome - but are career wins recorded for bench coaches and hitting/pitching coaches? Also are post season appearances and world championships recorded for coaches? Is any other statistic recorded for hitting/pitching coaches, like team BA or ERA?

Also, how is the information recorded? Season-by-season, listing the team, the record, and post-season play, just like a player's stats?

Questions, questions. Bear with me if I missed an earier thread on this (or point me that direction!)

jlredsox · 03-06-2007, 04:28 PM

It looks like with 2007 I am going to want to play with coaches on, because of the coaching history now. This is something I have wanted since I started with v4, so I guess I'll have to deal with the contract resignings. Maybe Markus can come up with a better way to manage this for '08.

jlredsox · 03-06-2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dankrzyz

Can we get more information on what stats are kept for coaches? I see that manager wins are recorded - awesome - but are career wins recorded for bench coaches and hitting/pitching coaches? Also are post season appearances and world championships recorded for coaches? Is any other statistic recorded for hitting/pitching coaches, like team BA or ERA?

Also, how is the information recorded? Season-by-season, listing the team, the record, and post-season play, just like a player's stats?

Questions, questions. Bear with me if I missed an earier thread on this (or point me that direction!)

I would like more info too. Any beta testers that might want to elaborate more?

Curtis · 03-10-2007, 09:34 PM

Another thing to factor in to coaches' movement is that some managers have favorite coaches who they drag around with them from job to job… or try to.

03-06-2007, 03:23 PM	#1
CBL-Commish All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,999	Coaches in '07 vs real life In OOTP I've always gotten the feeling that coaches, scouts, and managers were treated very similarly to players. The good ones are rather scarce, they all desperately want the most money and to coach on the best teams, and they often switch teams. But it seems to me that in real life there are hundreds or thousands of former major and minor league players chomping at the bit for jobs. If a team fires their hitting coach they rarely get into a bidding war for a new one, they typically just find a guy in their system or someone else's system who seems like they might make a good hitting coach and they sign them up. Coaches and scouts don't get into big free agent battles, and often managers don't either. I know the Orioles better than any other team, so maybe I don't have a big world view on this, but Elrod Hendricks was the bullpen coach for almost 30 years. I'm pretty sure he signed 30 one-year deals for whatever the team thought was fair. Nobody every competed with the O's - Elrod was just an organizational guy who was happy with his job. Ray Miller was the O's pitching coach for a generation. Not until the Twins offered him a manager's job did he even think about leaving. Rick Dempsey has been a coach off and on for years, and he only left when the team told him to (and even then he comes back to hang out at spring training). When they do dump someone off the staff they're typically replaced with another guy in the organization, and when they do go outside the system there's never mention of a bidding war. This year Juan Samuel just showed up as a coach, I'm betting they didn't get him by luring him away from his old team with money and promises and tours of the city. It just seems to me that OOTP is designed with a bunch of money hungry coaches and scouts who'll switch teams on a moment's notice for an extra $1000 a year. But in real life some significant % of coaches couldn't care less what their salary was as long as they have a job with the team they like. They'll essentially have their contract on autorenew for as long as they're welcome. Is this still the mode of operation in 2007? Does anyone else think this is an accurate description of OOTP and the real world, or am I off base here? __________________ For the best in O's news: Orioles' Hangout.com Last edited by CBL-Commish; 03-06-2007 at 03:24 PM.

03-06-2007, 03:31 PM	#2
chimanbj All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago, by way of Philly Posts: 792	Coaches have families to feed, you know... I've often wondered if coaches get better over time, or once they have a rating, that's where they stay. It's really hard to get a good coach to work for a low-minors team. And since you can't really make an offer, it's even harder. All you can do is off the job, and they'll tell if they want the job or not...and that's it.... It's not terribly realistic, but I think it works for the purposes of this *GAME* __________________ People ask if I'm a Cubs or White Sox fan...I tell them, proudly, I'm a Phillies Phan!

03-06-2007, 03:42 PM	#3
jlredsox Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 30	Yea, this is why I generally turn off coaches. I just hate the process of trying to fill all the coaching positions. It's not realistic that a AA pitching coach with below average skills, is going to just walk away from a position. It would be nice if you could just automatically just offer a contract to coaches throughout your whole system.

03-06-2007, 04:20 PM	#5
dankrzyz Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 305	Can we get more information on what stats are kept for coaches? I see that manager wins are recorded - awesome - but are career wins recorded for bench coaches and hitting/pitching coaches? Also are post season appearances and world championships recorded for coaches? Is any other statistic recorded for hitting/pitching coaches, like team BA or ERA? Also, how is the information recorded? Season-by-season, listing the team, the record, and post-season play, just like a player's stats? Questions, questions. Bear with me if I missed an earier thread on this (or point me that direction!)

03-06-2007, 04:28 PM	#6
jlredsox Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 30	It looks like with 2007 I am going to want to play with coaches on, because of the coaching history now. This is something I have wanted since I started with v4, so I guess I'll have to deal with the contract resignings. Maybe Markus can come up with a better way to manage this for '08.

03-10-2007, 09:34 PM	#8
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	Another thing to factor in to coaches' movement is that some managers have favorite coaches who they drag around with them from job to job… or try to.