WWBL enters offseason, looks for a few GM's

WWBL Commissioner · 12-17-2006, 08:47 PM

The WWBL is looking to fill a few teams. We are a 24 team fictional league using OOTP 2006. Coaches and scouts are off. We are a fairly laid back league that has been around since OOTP 3. all I ask is that you export once a week so I kno you are still alive with your team and that you reply to forum posts when needed.

New Mexico
San Jose
San Juan
Baton Rouge
Quebec
Tennessee

Baton Rouge won 90 games last season, Quebec is the winner of 6 championships San Jose and San Juan are close to being playoff teams and New Mexico is a rebuilding project

IF you would like to join e-mail me

[WWBL]Batboy · 12-23-2006, 04:37 AM

BUMP!

Give yourself a present and join the WWBL

Leahcim · 12-23-2006, 12:29 PM

I was the owner of the 90 win Baton Rouge team in this league. Here are some of my experiences in this league.

We did free agency for the 2010 season in 6.5 before converting to 2006. We started free agency on Feb 14 (day 15 of free agency) and simmed 3 days. (to Feb. 17, day 18 of free agency) After the first sim three teams (Baton Rouge, Alaska, West Texas) received an email from Unagorou Munenori, one of the top free agents available, saying he liked Baton Rouge's offer the best. When I clicked on Munenori his comment was that his favorite offer came from Hawaii, which just coincidently happened to be the commissioners team. When I went to check Hawaii's email they just happened to be conveniently coincidently deleted, so there was no way to tell when or how Hawaii (the commissioners team) ended up with the best offer for Munenori, even though 3 teams had email saying Baton Rouge had the best offer.

I exported every sim of the 2010 season except one that I know that I missed because I had to work late. Baton Rouge ended up winning the division and was in the playoffs. I had a storm the night exports were due for the first playoff sim and lost power for the weekend. When my power was restored and I had internet access back I found that my team had Winter League roster changes made to it by the commissioner so he could sim the playoffs with my team using a 5 man rotation and starting my 5th starter in the playoffs. The team I was playing in the playoffs just coincidently happened to be Hawaii, the commissioners team. He made no effort to find out why someone who regularly exports all of a sudden didn't export for the playoffs at a time when a major storm was ripping through the country, he just took it upon himself to make roster changes to my team so he could sim our series with my team unprepared.

If any of these coincidences happened singularly by themselves or with another team I could maybe look past them, but when they happen together, with one team, the commissioners team, I had to ask myself is this a league I want to be in where player development and changes are no longer tracked and documented in the game, thus 90 win Baton Rouge is available.

WWBL Commissioner · 12-23-2006, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leahcim

I was the owner of the 90 win Baton Rouge team in this league. Here are some of my experiences in this league.

We did free agency for the 2010 season in 6.5 before converting to 2006. We started free agency on Feb 14 (day 15 of free agency) and simmed 3 days. (to Feb. 17, day 18 of free agency) After the first sim three teams (Baton Rouge, Alaska, West Texas) received an email from Unagorou Munenori, one of the top free agents available, saying he liked Baton Rouge's offer the best. When I clicked on Munenori his comment was that his favorite offer came from Hawaii, which just coincidently happened to be the commissioners team. When I went to check Hawaii's email they just happened to be conveniently coincidently deleted, so there was no way to tell when or how Hawaii (the commissioners team) ended up with the best offer for Munenori, even though 3 teams had email saying Baton Rouge had the best offer.

I exported every sim of the 2010 season except one that I know that I missed because I had to work late. Baton Rouge ended up winning the division and was in the playoffs. I had a storm the night exports were due for the first playoff sim and lost power for the weekend. When my power was restored and I had internet access back I found that my team had Winter League roster changes made to it by the commissioner so he could sim the playoffs with my team using a 5 man rotation and starting my 5th starter in the playoffs. The team I was playing in the playoffs just coincidently happened to be Hawaii, the commissioners team. He made no effort to find out why someone who regularly exports all of a sudden didn't export for the playoffs at a time when a major storm was ripping through the country, he just took it upon himself to make roster changes to my team so he could sim our series with my team unprepared.

If any of these coincidences happened singularly by themselves or with another team I could maybe look past them, but when they happen together, with one team, the commissioners team, I had to ask myself is this a league I want to be in where player development and changes are no longer tracked and documented in the game, thus 90 win Baton Rouge is available.

The WWBL has been around since OOTP 3 and in the entire history of our league we have never had a complaint about how i run the league. Now I am forced to respond to one bitter GM's post involvement diatribe.
The player in question in the first paragraph was in fact bit upon by my team. The information that Michael leaves out of this post is that I did not in the player, if I was doing something wrong in the bidding don; you think I would have made sure I won the guy? On the subject of my teams free agent bidding 4 of my 5 starting pitchers are home grown talent or in by trade only my 5th starter was signed as a free agent, my bullpen has only one player that was signed via FA bidding, and my position players have only 1 guy that was not either drafted by Hawaii or traded for with other humnan owners. I don;t build my teams via FA.
and now to the nuts and bolts of it. Michael did export all the time and the start of the playoffs were no exception, Baton rouge exported to start the offseason. I ever looked at his lineup, I just simmed. I did in fact fill his Winter league team, and I did the same thing for 5 other teams that had not set their roster, by going into their transaction screen and dragging guys over so the sim could continue.
In the end we learned that Michael had lost power for a week in the St. Louis area when that big storm hit. We had no way of knowing what happened to him.
Following his post of calling me out because I simmed as per our rules and deadlines I posted a poll to the GM's in the league to ask if the rules should be changed to not sim playoff games until all GM's export and they voted for us to keep the rules as is.
this is a case of one pissed off guy trying to make trouble. I have NEVER done anything to cheat, never will and it really pisses me off to even have to make a post like this.
It's a risk to have a winning team as a commissioner, and this is an example of why. I have won alot of games, been to alot of world series, and lost most of them...again not the makings of a cheater. I have a proven track recond in OOTP I have been to two WS in the BAB winning one and I was in Cooly's Home town baseball where I won a WS my first year in. I leave it to you all to decide but I will not engage in a back and forth with one bitter guy trying to cause us trouble because he got pissed and "took his ball and went home" this will be my only post on this subject. thank you for reading and as Paul Harvey says, now you know ...the rest of the story.

Leahcim · 12-23-2006, 09:24 PM

The fact is you can't explain how your team unexplainably had the best offer for Munenori when 3 teams had email saying Baton Rouge, not Hawaii, had the best offer. That your team had it's email deleted doesn't help you in that regard either.

The part you leave out is that you didn't win the player because I made sure you wouldn't by offering a ridiculous $35 million per year contract your team couldn't afford. No amount of "doing something wrong in the bidding" could have won him for you.

These are my experiences in your league and they are the truth. People can draw their own conclusions from them.

lt2cents · 12-23-2006, 11:59 PM

Have been a member of this league for several seasons and this is the only instance of an occurrence of a disgruntled league member. I think other league members can verify that.

I have no doubt that some unfortunate events happened to the Baton Rouge owner. I have very serious doubts that any were rigged. That would not be the experience that anyone else in the league has had, I am sure. I think it was a string of bad luck, but it falls far short of the evidence that former Baton Rouge makes it out to be.

League commishes vary in how they keep their leagues moving along. Some take the tack that everyone else is expected to meet the export schedule, and will not hold it up for one late exporter, etc. Others may differ and provide a lot of indulgence to owners, so you may choose your league based on that or not. It is asking a lot for a commish to correctly judge every circumstance. You can ask he does his best, and is consistent. Once done and decided, it really doesn't work to go back. (Kind of like an umpire?)

So, bottom line-- just want to say this is a good league... I think run well, and recommend to anyone to recognize one persons bad experience is not a fair representation of the enjoyment the rest of us owners get.

[WWBL]Batboy · 12-24-2006, 01:13 AM

This is the first I've heard of the "Unagorou Munenori Incident". If this happened as you say it did why wasn't this brought up at the time? Shouldn't others in the league be warned of possible wrong doings of the commish at the time it happens? And, shouldn't the commish have the right to explain things at the time if there is an issue? You are bringing up things that happened a season ago and nothing was brought up about it at the time. Yet, you've got all the answers for this "Incident" like it happened yesterday or you wrote them down in a book. You are one man controlling one team. It would be easier for you to bring things up that happened to your team a season ago. As for the commish, he runs a league with 24 other teams with issues happening all the time. Between all the sims, trades, drafts, and league conversion from 6.5 to 2006 and throw on top of that everyday life how can you expect him to defend the charges you throw at him now and remember every detail as you do? The time for this issue to have been addressed has come and gone.

I do feel sorry that you could not export for the playoffs due to a freak blizzard. How was anyone supposed to know you didn't have power? Like Steve pointed out, we took a vote and everyone that voted said that there should be a deadline for exports in the playoffs and the playoffs should move on with or with out exports from playoff GMs when that deadline has passed.

I'm sorry your stay in the WWBL left a bad taste in your mouth and you felt the need to post in our thread about it. You are the first person that I'm aware of that has ever left angry. We've had many GMs come and go over the years, I'm sad things didn't work out for you while you were here. I wish you the best of luck in the NABA and whatever other leagues you are in.

Dark Horse · 12-24-2006, 05:48 AM

If you're interested in this league, or if you like the mess factor, i hope you have the patience to read through this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leahcim

I was the owner of the 90 win Baton Rouge team in this league. Here are some of my experiences in this league.

i just joined the WWBL. i joined specifically because it was switching over to 2006. So i don’t know a lot about what happened before i joined at mid-season. But that in itself is telling. If the free agency problem that came up was so big. i should have seen something referring to it on the message boards before i joined. i generally check the message boards to get a feel of what’s going on with the league. Baton Rouge did make a request that Hawaii stop deleting his (Hawaii’s) messages. But i read nothing ominous into it. When i joined, everything seemed harmonious. Since, i’ve joined; i had observed nothing that would lead me to think there were any problems in the league. And i’m a person that checks my league forums everyday. During that time, the Baton Rouge GM made suggestions concerning the conversion. Baton Rouge made requests to get numbers changed. Baton Rouge made jokes about the goofy all-star game problem. Still let’s investigate this farther.

Dark Horse · 12-24-2006, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leahcim

We did free agency for the 2010 season in 6.5 before converting to 2006. We started free agency on Feb 14 (day 15 of free agency) and simmed 3 days. (to Feb. 17, day 18 of free agency) After the first sim three teams (Baton Rouge, Alaska, West Texas) received an email from Unagorou Munenori, one of the top free agents available, saying he liked Baton Rouge's offer the best. When I clicked on Munenori his comment was that his favorite offer came from Hawaii, which just coincidently happened to be the commissioners team.

i’m in three leagues, this league and two v6.5 leagues. i’ve been in the LBA for four years, RT, and in the last year i’ve been given the commish duties. i can tell you something about the functionality in this area.

The player will only contact you on two occasions. First, when you make an offer to him. And second, when he announces where he will sign. If you make an offer on day 4, and your offer is the best offer, you and everyone else that made an offer on that day will get an email saying that your team (in this case, Baton Rouge) had the best offer. (Note using day numbers only as an example.)

If, on day 10, someone else (in this case, Hawaii) makes a better offer, he, and everyone that made an offer on day 10 will get an email that says, that Hawaii has the best offer. You, Baton Rouge, will not get an email, because you did not make an offer to him. The only way you know that don’t have the best offer is for you to check your offers and see that you know longer have the option to withdraw your offer. This is because you no longer have the best offer. And, if the other members in the league, that had originally gotten an email saying that Baton Rouge had the best offer, had not made an offer since day 10, they would not have gotten an email saying that Hawaii had the best offer, either.

Now let’s go further. The only ways Hawaii could have cheated you at this point would have been to:

a) withdraw your offer – and IIRC, this couldn’t have happened, because if it had you would not have been able to negotiate with him. Plus, you didn’t say anything about your offer being gone.

Or b) he could have looked at your offer and made sure he beat it. If this is the case, why hasn’t he been under scrutiny before this? If he’s been getting every FA he wants by outbidding the league, why hasn’t the league collapsed?

But reading your post here, it doesn’t even sound like you are accusing him of this. You sound like he only manipulated the FA into accepting his offer. Now, i’ve never heard of anyone being able to manipulate an FA. i know you can edit contracts once a player signs. And, if such a thing were possible, why not just manipulate him into signing rather than just having the best offer?

Dark Horse · 12-24-2006, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leahcim

When I went to check Hawaii's email they just happened to be conveniently coincidently deleted, so there was no way to tell when or how Hawaii (the commissioners team) ended up with the best offer for Munenori, even though 3 teams had email saying Baton Rouge had the best offer.

First, there is nothing you could have learned about Hawaii’s offer from his email. They all say the same thing in v65.

“I have to admit that I like your offer. So far, it’s the best one I’ve received.”

What can that tell you? Unless, of course, you are insinuating that somehow he manipulated the FA into seeing his offer as the best one. In which case, he could not have gotten the “I like your offer” email, but but could have gotten the “FYI - Baton Rouge has the best offer" email.

Next, there is nothing nefarious about Hawaii erasing his emails. Like i said, i’m in two v65 leagues. And before that i played a lot solo. It has become a habit, to delete all messages after i read them. i did it when i played solo. i did in my online leagues before i became a commish. Even though i know that the emails will come back with the next file i still do it every time. And i do it now as a commish. i guess if this going to be considered underhanded, i’ll have to unlearn this habit.

Dark Horse · 12-24-2006, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leahcim

I exported every sim of the 2010 season except one that I know that I missed because I had to work late. Baton Rouge ended up winning the division and was in the playoffs. I had a storm the night exports were due for the first playoff sim and lost power for the weekend. When my power was restored and I had internet access back I found that my team had Winter League roster changes made to it by the commissioner so he could sim the playoffs with my team using a 5 man rotation and starting my 5th starter in the playoffs. The team I was playing in the playoffs just coincidently happened to be Hawaii, the commissioners team. He made no effort to find out why someone who regularly exports all of a sudden didn't export for the playoffs at a time when a major storm was ripping through the country, he just took it upon himself to make roster changes to my team so he could sim our series with my team unprepared.

Okay, your power was out, for the weekend. That’s out of your control. And even the commish would acknowledge that, if it were possible, you would have exported for the playoffs. Did you really expect the commish to wait for your export? For three days!

And in this league, there a possibility that each round could take three sims. If it on schedule (simming every other day) and we get a long series in each round, the playoffs will take over two weeks (18 days). Now what happens, if every other sim, someone is unexplicably missing an export? Do we wait to see if he has a good explanation? Or, until he has time? Or, until he feels like exporting? The playoffs could take month. That’s a month where 20 other people are sitting around doing nothing, losing interest, finding another league to join.

It is imperative that playoffs be done as quickly as possible. In the LBA, i never wait for an export. i may sim early if everyone gets their exports in. But, if at the scheduled deadline, someone’s export is missing, i sim ahead. If someone has a problem and can’t export and they tell me ahead of time, they can give me their instructions and i’ll make the changes manually. But you can’t wait for anyone for sim.

And about the Winter Leagues, he had to add players onto my roster, too, because i hadn't realized that the Winter League was starting. This only accounted for four days. And again, this is not without precedence. In v65, if someone for whatever reason someone has a faulty lineup or roster that forces a sim to stop, we don't wait for the mistake to be fixed. In the LBA, the rule has been that the commish will do whatever it takes to get the sim complete. The most common area like this is people forgetting that they have players in their DFA box. Those players get released by the commish, no questions asked.

So again, i can’t see the impropriety.

i can see and understand your frustration in losing the playoff series. Especially, when its reasonable to believe that the outcome of that playoff series could have been different if you were able to export. And i can see where you might would even more frustrated and even suspicious since you were facing the commish’s team. But i see nothing that could have been considered cheating.

Dark Horse · 12-24-2006, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leahcim

If any of these coincidences happened singularly by themselves or with another team I could maybe look past them, but when they happen together, with one team, the commissioners team, I had to ask myself is this a league I want to be in where player development and changes are no longer tracked and documented in the game, thus 90 win Baton Rouge is available.

Again, i can empathize with your feelings.

The first online that i joined was an old BBPro league (incidentally its still around and they use OOTP now) i was “stuck” in the division with my commissioner.

And the commissioner had perhaps the best team in the league and i had one of the top teams in the league. But i was stuck behind the commish’s team. i’d win 90+ games but, end up in 2nd because he won 100+ games.

And i have to admit that it ran through my mind that the commish has an unfair advantage. But if you sit back and take emotion out of the picture i could see that nothing that he was doing would be construed as inappropriate if he weren’t the commish.

Dark Horse · 12-24-2006, 05:55 AM

The reason i joined the LBA was that the founder (and original commish) of the league was not going to own a team. Since then, he’s had to step down and at different times different owners have had to become the commish. And, in two cases, the commish was in my division. You have to push that from your mind. When you do, you’ll realize that, in the long run, the commish is gonna’ win as much as you do and lose as much as you do.

The WWBL commish can’t be at the same time either:

• An evil genius that has been able to cheat your league for the past four or five years without getting caught.
• A bumbling fool that despite all that cheating, still manage to only win TWO championships in 26 seasons? And it took him 21 seasons to win get to his first “World Series”. And he lost the first three “World Series” he was in. What did he do cheat all the way to championship and then get a conscious… three seasons in a row?

How can he both be:
• He is smart enough to manipulate a FA into thinking that he had the best offer.
• But he’s too stupid to get that FA to actually sign with.
• And with all of his manipulations his team only won 86 games this season.

i feel bad for this commish. Because, if he is cheating, he’s a loser for cheating at a game. And he’s an even big loser for cheating and still not losing. But also, now that i’m on the other side i know the frustration of being the commish. Heck, you can’t win. If your team plays well, you’ll be accused of being a cheater. If you go out of your way to make everything look above board, you end up tying one hand behind your back in a sense. And your team goes to pot. And you still can’t lose.

Dark Horse · 12-24-2006, 06:01 AM

Now, if you've made it this far, and you're still interested or curious, go by the league website and check it out.

Go into the forums. Read some of the threads. See how much discord there is in it. See if sims are being run on time. See if everyone (or most everyone) thinks they are being treated fairly. See if the commish makes a reasonable schedule, with reasonable rules. See if he's a dictator or if he takes the advice of the league.

Don't go by one voice, whether that voice be mine or bat boy's or WWBL Commish's or by Leahcim, go by what you see there. And weigh all of the evidence.

Leahcim · 12-24-2006, 06:50 AM

I like to think that people running leagues are honest and don't take charges of cheating lightly. If you check I was asking people to please give Fitterer or Fit Dog or whatever he is known by a second chance.

I did bring the Munenori incident up when it happened by posting on the forum asking the commissioner to please not delete his email in the future. He didn't discuss his cheating on the forum there, much like he won't discuss it here. He instead contacted me by PM and I had hoped any future cheating would be avoided. I was giving him a second chance, that is why you didn't hear about it until now.

Dark Horse, if he hadn't deleted his email we would have seen when his team got the email from Munenori stating he liked Hawaii's offer. We know it wasn't the first day simmed because that is when 3 other teams got an email saying Baton Rouge had the best offer, so just when did Hawaii make their offer Munenori liked? We don't know because he deleted his email. If Munenori stated that his favorite offer came from Baton Rouge like the email to 3 teams indicated, the commissioner deleting his team email wouldn't be an issue, but Munenori stated his favorite offer came from Hawaii, which is not what the email to 3 teams indicated. The fact still remains that after the first free agent sim Munenori stated his best offer came from the commissioners team when 3 teams had email stating otherwise. His only defense is "I did not win the player in question" and "I don't build my team via FA."

Since the commissioner can't/won't explain how that happened I will help him explain it to you. He imported the free agent offers and simmed the first of the three days. That is when Alaska, Baton Rouge, and West Texas and possibly Hawaii, but we don't know because the Hawaii email was deleted, got the email from Munenori stating Baton Rouge had the best offer. The commissioner then made an offer to Munenori on the second day to be simmed and completed that day. Hawaii then got an email from Munenori saying he either liked their offer or still preferred my offer, we don't know which because the Hawaii email was deleted. On the third day to be simmed, if the commissioners team didn't have the best offer from the second day, he made another offer to Munenori and simmed that day, and he would have gotten an email from Munenori saying he liked his offer, but once again we don't know because he deleted Hawaii's email.

The best case scenario is that the commissioner, in his own words from above, was "doing something wrong in the bidding." To call that an unfortunate event that happened to the Baton Rouge owner is comical. The worst case is that he looked at the offer to Munenori and then made an offer to beat it, which is why I made an offer his team wouldn't be able to beat. If he thinks it's fine for him to be "doing something wrong in the bidding" who knows what else he thinks is just fine for him to do?

The simming of the playoffs without an export from my team after I had exported all season is shady at best. My team was using a 5 man rotation with my 5th starter scheduled to pitch next. As I told the commissioner by email, the league waited weeks for him several times while he took care of various issues, yet he couldn't wait 2 days and at least make an effort to find out why someone who exports regularly hadn't exported for the playoffs. I don't think any other commissioner in any of my other leagues would do something like that, especially if the team involved was playing their own team. Maybe I expected more from this commissioner than he is capable of.

The reason I have my facts straight on the Munenori incident and it seems like I wrote them in a book is because I saved the game files. I looked at them to get the days that were simmed, names of the teams that got the email, and everything else correct. If you or any member of the league, or anyone thinking of joining this league want to look at them, I will send them to you.

If my team had been playing someone else in the playoffs and he made roster changes to my team to sim it would be easier to take. If another team was named as having the best offer from the free agent when email to 3 teams say otherwise, it would be easier to take. If yet another team had their email deleted it would be easier to take, but it is always the commissioners team that these events happen with. I gave him a second chance and he blew it.

Leahcim · 12-24-2006, 07:40 AM

The bottom line is this. After the first free agency sim a player lists the commissioner's team as having the best offer in spite of 3 emails to teams saying it is not the commissioner's team that has the best offer.

If you're the type of person that isn't bothered if the commissioner's team magically has the best offer to free agents, or that any evidence to explain how that magical offer came about is deleted by the commissioner, then by all means join Dark Horse and BatBoy and the other person who just joined the forum this month in the league. Take Baton Rouge. They are a good, young team.

Dark Horse · 12-24-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leahcim

I like to think that people running leagues are honest and don't take charges of cheating lightly. If you check I was asking people to please give Fitterer or Fit Dog or whatever he is known by a second chance.

I did bring the Munenori incident up when it happened by posting on the forum asking the commissioner to please not delete his email in the future. He didn't discuss his cheating on the forum there, much like he won't discuss it here. He instead contacted me by PM and I had hoped any future cheating would be avoided. I was giving him a second chance, that is why you didn't hear about it until now.

Yeah, i saw the one post (there may have been others i missed) about the Munenori incident. Again, that was, at best, a mysterious post.

Quote:

Could you please leave the email messages the Hawaii team receives from the free agents in the league file you upload. They were deleted in this last file.

Thanks.

Just in case anyone is wondering why I would like to see the email from Hawaii it is because the email messages give clues to how bids are compared to other teams. Looking at the email for Baton Rouge helps me determine how much my bid is off if I am not the high bidder. If I am the high bidder, looking at the other teams email that bid on the same player helps me determine how much they are off, which helps me decide if I want to make another bid for that player this round or let my bid stand.

There was nothing in this post that would have alerted me, as an interested outsider, or the other GMs in the league that there was any wrong doing going on.

Honestly, if you had laid out the argument you make in this post on your message board, i probably wouldn’t have joined the league. Not because he’s definitely guilty of anything. But because it does look shady and being already in a league where this happens is okay and maybe i give him a second chance. But i wouldn’t want to join a league where there is already mess and misgivings.

Dark Horse · 12-24-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leahcim

Dark Horse, if he hadn't deleted his email we would have seen when his team got the email from Munenori stating he liked Hawaii's offer. We know it wasn't the first day simmed because that is when 3 other teams got an email saying Baton Rouge had the best offer, so just when did Hawaii make their offer Munenori liked? We don't know because he deleted his email. If Munenori stated that his favorite offer came from Baton Rouge like the email to 3 teams indicated, the commissioner deleting his team email wouldn't be an issue, but Munenori stated his favorite offer came from Hawaii, which is not what the email to 3 teams indicated. The fact still remains that after the first free agent sim Munenori stated his best offer came from the commissioners team when 3 teams had email stating otherwise. His only defense is "I did not win the player in question" and "I don't build my team via FA."

Since the commissioner can't/won't explain how that happened I will help him explain it to you. He imported the free agent offers and simmed the first of the three days. That is when Alaska, Baton Rouge, and West Texas and possibly Hawaii, but we don't know because the Hawaii email was deleted, got the email from Munenori stating Baton Rouge had the best offer. The commissioner then made an offer to Munenori on the second day to be simmed and completed that day. Hawaii then got an email from Munenori saying he either liked their offer or still preferred my offer, we don't know which because the Hawaii email was deleted. On the third day to be simmed, if the commissioners team didn't have the best offer from the second day, he made another offer to Munenori and simmed that day, and he would have gotten an email from Munenori saying he liked his offer, but once again we don't know because he deleted Hawaii's email.

This is a better explanation. i honestly thought this took place over several sims. If the commish did have a three day sim scheduled. And he simmed Day One, then made another offer on Day Two, he did do something wrong.

At best, he suffered a lack of judgement. i can see him (or me) having a set of FAs in mind or written down that wanted to make bids. And i can see him (or me) remembering after Day One that he wanted to make an offer to Munenori. i don’t think i would’ve made an offer on Day Two. (Or i’ll make sure i won’t such a thing in the future.) Because, again it does look shady.

At worst, he straight up cheated.

But, by you giving him a second chance, i’m guessing that you labeled this as a lack of judgement. (This would’ve been strike one for me.) Because, if i had thought he was cheating, i would’ve quit then.

Dark Horse · 12-24-2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leahcim

The best case scenario is that the commissioner, in his own words from above, was "doing something wrong in the bidding." To call that an unfortunate event that happened to the Baton Rouge owner is comical. The worst case is that he looked at the offer to Munenori and then made an offer to beat it, which is why I made an offer his team wouldn't be able to beat. If he thinks it's fine for him to be "doing something wrong in the bidding" who knows what else he thinks is just fine for him to do?

If he thought it was fine, so did you. After all, you made no further public mention of this issue. You continued to aid him or offer him advise on the running of the league. You continued to be active on the forum boards. And, you made all the exports for the following season.

Now allow me to look suspiciously at your actions. (And please don’t flame me without reading the whole post because, honestly as a league member i would like to get this resolved for my sake and for the league’s.) But by dealing with him privately; a suspicious eye would see this pattern.

1. The commish did something shady.
2. You caught him and made a public remark to get his attention.
3. You talked to him privately.
4. He backed down and you got your FA.
5. When you got what you wanted, you decided to drop the matter.
6. When the playoff incident occurred, you (possibly) used the same tactic.
7. Remark publicly when the commish’s team beat yours in a series where you did not get a chance to export. (admittedly more vehemently) And, again this is something where you had something to gain.
8. Perhaps you addressed him privately, also.
9. When he didn’t back down this time, you decided to bring out all of the dirty laundry.

Dark Horse · 12-24-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leahcim

The simming of the playoffs without an export from my team after I had exported all season is shady at best. My team was using a 5 man rotation with my 5th starter scheduled to pitch next. As I told the commissioner by email, the league waited weeks for him several times while he took care of various issues, yet he couldn't wait 2 days and at least make an effort to find out why someone who exports regularly hadn't exported for the playoffs. I don't think any other commissioner in any of my other leagues would do something like that, especially if the team involved was playing their own team. Maybe I expected more from this commissioner than he is capable of.

Again, in this instance, i would have done the same thing the commish had done. i sim when the schedule says we sim.

First, i don’t check teams rosters to make sure that their decisions make sense. i don’t know what your strategy is. i have had GMs send me emails explaining their strategy. And, if i were to have looked at his rotation, i would have thought he made a mistake. The reason i don’t do it for one, is because, if i did, i’d have to do it for all of the GMs. Otherwise, i’m showing favoritism. i have to do it in the playoffs. i have to do it in the regular season. Now, if i (or any other commish) delays a sim because one out of 16 or 20 or 24 GMs made an odd move that i have to verify. We will never get through one season.

Second, if i wait two day or three days for one GM, (Even if it were a legitimate excuse.) i have to do it for every GM. (Again, favoritism.) So you had a legit excuse for a delay, okay we wait. Now, the next time i want to go out of town for the weekend for a vacation, i can freely do so and the whole league has to wait for me. Why? Because, if they waited 2 or 3 days for one guy, they have to do it for whoever. Even if going on a vacation is not a legit excuse for a delay. One, since you haven’t heard from me you have to wait for me to find out what the excuse is. And two, i can always lie and say i had a problem with my hard drive or had to work sixteen hour days all weekend or some other legit excuse.

Waiting for the commish is not the same as waiting for a GM. By your logic, because he was MIA for weeks at time, if there was not 100% exports the commish would have to wait a week or until all exports are in. Again, the league wouldn’t get through one season. The commish drives the league, the GMs only ride with him. By rule the driver can leave without a rider. And the other riders would probably implore him to do so. This is not necessarily an unfair relationship. Because if the commish is taking too long in between sims, the GMs can find someone else to take over sim responsibilities or the GMs can leave and find another more reliable commish.

i definitely don’t think you are at fault for not exporting for the playoffs. But i don’t think the commish is at fault either.

The only ways i can see the commish as being at fault in this playoff situation, is if:

There was already precedence set where he specifically stated that he was waiting for another GM (who had disappeared without any notice) to export.

You were able to publicly contact the commish and explain your situation and he didn’t wait. (This one is gray area. If there is a hard and fast rule the sim must be run at the given time, then you’re out of luck. But it would be reasonable for the commish to say okay we’ll give you a couple of days.)

You had contacted the commish publicly and asked him to make roster changes for you and he didn’t. (Again there would have to be a rule in place or precedence set where he had done this for another GM.)

But i see no reason to blame the commish for the playoffs, since there was no public notice saying where you were.

12-17-2006, 08:47 PM	#1
WWBL Commissioner All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Hawaii Posts: 887	WWBL enters offseason, looks for a few GM's The WWBL is looking to fill a few teams. We are a 24 team fictional league using OOTP 2006. Coaches and scouts are off. We are a fairly laid back league that has been around since OOTP 3. all I ask is that you export once a week so I kno you are still alive with your team and that you reply to forum posts when needed. New Mexico San Jose San Juan Baton Rouge Quebec Tennessee Baton Rouge won 90 games last season, Quebec is the winner of 6 championships San Jose and San Juan are close to being playoff teams and New Mexico is a rebuilding project IF you would like to join e-mail me __________________ Offey WWBL Commissioner(2004-2014 real life years) WWBL: Hawaii Island Warriors 2005 Pacific League Champion 2006 Pacific League Champion 2007 Pacific League Champion 2008 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION 2010 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION 2019 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION 2029 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION The Island Warriors are 21-23 in World Series play. BadAssBaseball: Boston Red Sox 1906 American League Champion 1907 WORLD CHAMPION Last edited by WWBL Commissioner; 12-17-2006 at 10:30 PM.

12-24-2006, 05:55 AM	#13
Dark Horse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas! Posts: 2,633	The reason i joined the LBA was that the founder (and original commish) of the league was not going to own a team. Since then, he’s had to step down and at different times different owners have had to become the commish. And, in two cases, the commish was in my division. You have to push that from your mind. When you do, you’ll realize that, in the long run, the commish is gonna’ win as much as you do and lose as much as you do. The WWBL commish can’t be at the same time either: • An evil genius that has been able to cheat your league for the past four or five years without getting caught. • A bumbling fool that despite all that cheating, still manage to only win TWO championships in 26 seasons? And it took him 21 seasons to win get to his first “World Series”. And he lost the first three “World Series” he was in. What did he do cheat all the way to championship and then get a conscious… three seasons in a row? How can he both be: • He is smart enough to manipulate a FA into thinking that he had the best offer. • But he’s too stupid to get that FA to actually sign with. • And with all of his manipulations his team only won 86 games this season. i feel bad for this commish. Because, if he is cheating, he’s a loser for cheating at a game. And he’s an even big loser for cheating and still not losing. But also, now that i’m on the other side i know the frustration of being the commish. Heck, you can’t win. If your team plays well, you’ll be accused of being a cheater. If you go out of your way to make everything look above board, you end up tying one hand behind your back in a sense. And your team goes to pot. And you still can’t lose. __________________ A Justafan Fan LBA Geo Bahn Rock Hounds fan of the ISLANDIAN PRO ALLIANCE

12-24-2006, 06:01 AM	#14
Dark Horse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas! Posts: 2,633	Now, if you've made it this far, and you're still interested or curious, go by the league website and check it out. Go into the forums. Read some of the threads. See how much discord there is in it. See if sims are being run on time. See if everyone (or most everyone) thinks they are being treated fairly. See if the commish makes a reasonable schedule, with reasonable rules. See if he's a dictator or if he takes the advice of the league. Don't go by one voice, whether that voice be mine or bat boy's or WWBL Commish's or by Leahcim, go by what you see there. And weigh all of the evidence. __________________ A Justafan Fan LBA Geo Bahn Rock Hounds fan of the ISLANDIAN PRO ALLIANCE

12-23-2006, 04:37 AM	#2
[WWBL]Batboy Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 485	BUMP! Give yourself a present and join the WWBL

12-23-2006, 12:29 PM	#3
Leahcim Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Niagara Falls, NY Posts: 32	I was the owner of the 90 win Baton Rouge team in this league. Here are some of my experiences in this league. We did free agency for the 2010 season in 6.5 before converting to 2006. We started free agency on Feb 14 (day 15 of free agency) and simmed 3 days. (to Feb. 17, day 18 of free agency) After the first sim three teams (Baton Rouge, Alaska, West Texas) received an email from Unagorou Munenori, one of the top free agents available, saying he liked Baton Rouge's offer the best. When I clicked on Munenori his comment was that his favorite offer came from Hawaii, which just coincidently happened to be the commissioners team. When I went to check Hawaii's email they just happened to be conveniently coincidently deleted, so there was no way to tell when or how Hawaii (the commissioners team) ended up with the best offer for Munenori, even though 3 teams had email saying Baton Rouge had the best offer. I exported every sim of the 2010 season except one that I know that I missed because I had to work late. Baton Rouge ended up winning the division and was in the playoffs. I had a storm the night exports were due for the first playoff sim and lost power for the weekend. When my power was restored and I had internet access back I found that my team had Winter League roster changes made to it by the commissioner so he could sim the playoffs with my team using a 5 man rotation and starting my 5th starter in the playoffs. The team I was playing in the playoffs just coincidently happened to be Hawaii, the commissioners team. He made no effort to find out why someone who regularly exports all of a sudden didn't export for the playoffs at a time when a major storm was ripping through the country, he just took it upon himself to make roster changes to my team so he could sim our series with my team unprepared. If any of these coincidences happened singularly by themselves or with another team I could maybe look past them, but when they happen together, with one team, the commissioners team, I had to ask myself is this a league I want to be in where player development and changes are no longer tracked and documented in the game, thus 90 win Baton Rouge is available.

12-23-2006, 09:24 PM	#5
Leahcim Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Niagara Falls, NY Posts: 32	The fact is you can't explain how your team unexplainably had the best offer for Munenori when 3 teams had email saying Baton Rouge, not Hawaii, had the best offer. That your team had it's email deleted doesn't help you in that regard either. The part you leave out is that you didn't win the player because I made sure you wouldn't by offering a ridiculous $35 million per year contract your team couldn't afford. No amount of "doing something wrong in the bidding" could have won him for you. These are my experiences in your league and they are the truth. People can draw their own conclusions from them.

12-23-2006, 11:59 PM	#6
lt2cents Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 212	Have been a member of this league for several seasons and this is the only instance of an occurrence of a disgruntled league member. I think other league members can verify that. I have no doubt that some unfortunate events happened to the Baton Rouge owner. I have very serious doubts that any were rigged. That would not be the experience that anyone else in the league has had, I am sure. I think it was a string of bad luck, but it falls far short of the evidence that former Baton Rouge makes it out to be. League commishes vary in how they keep their leagues moving along. Some take the tack that everyone else is expected to meet the export schedule, and will not hold it up for one late exporter, etc. Others may differ and provide a lot of indulgence to owners, so you may choose your league based on that or not. It is asking a lot for a commish to correctly judge every circumstance. You can ask he does his best, and is consistent. Once done and decided, it really doesn't work to go back. (Kind of like an umpire?) So, bottom line-- just want to say this is a good league... I think run well, and recommend to anyone to recognize one persons bad experience is not a fair representation of the enjoyment the rest of us owners get.

12-24-2006, 01:13 AM	#7
[WWBL]Batboy Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 485	This is the first I've heard of the "Unagorou Munenori Incident". If this happened as you say it did why wasn't this brought up at the time? Shouldn't others in the league be warned of possible wrong doings of the commish at the time it happens? And, shouldn't the commish have the right to explain things at the time if there is an issue? You are bringing up things that happened a season ago and nothing was brought up about it at the time. Yet, you've got all the answers for this "Incident" like it happened yesterday or you wrote them down in a book. You are one man controlling one team. It would be easier for you to bring things up that happened to your team a season ago. As for the commish, he runs a league with 24 other teams with issues happening all the time. Between all the sims, trades, drafts, and league conversion from 6.5 to 2006 and throw on top of that everyday life how can you expect him to defend the charges you throw at him now and remember every detail as you do? The time for this issue to have been addressed has come and gone. I do feel sorry that you could not export for the playoffs due to a freak blizzard. How was anyone supposed to know you didn't have power? Like Steve pointed out, we took a vote and everyone that voted said that there should be a deadline for exports in the playoffs and the playoffs should move on with or with out exports from playoff GMs when that deadline has passed. I'm sorry your stay in the WWBL left a bad taste in your mouth and you felt the need to post in our thread about it. You are the first person that I'm aware of that has ever left angry. We've had many GMs come and go over the years, I'm sad things didn't work out for you while you were here. I wish you the best of luck in the NABA and whatever other leagues you are in.

12-24-2006, 06:50 AM	#15
Leahcim Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Niagara Falls, NY Posts: 32	I like to think that people running leagues are honest and don't take charges of cheating lightly. If you check I was asking people to please give Fitterer or Fit Dog or whatever he is known by a second chance. I did bring the Munenori incident up when it happened by posting on the forum asking the commissioner to please not delete his email in the future. He didn't discuss his cheating on the forum there, much like he won't discuss it here. He instead contacted me by PM and I had hoped any future cheating would be avoided. I was giving him a second chance, that is why you didn't hear about it until now. Dark Horse, if he hadn't deleted his email we would have seen when his team got the email from Munenori stating he liked Hawaii's offer. We know it wasn't the first day simmed because that is when 3 other teams got an email saying Baton Rouge had the best offer, so just when did Hawaii make their offer Munenori liked? We don't know because he deleted his email. If Munenori stated that his favorite offer came from Baton Rouge like the email to 3 teams indicated, the commissioner deleting his team email wouldn't be an issue, but Munenori stated his favorite offer came from Hawaii, which is not what the email to 3 teams indicated. The fact still remains that after the first free agent sim Munenori stated his best offer came from the commissioners team when 3 teams had email stating otherwise. His only defense is "I did not win the player in question" and "I don't build my team via FA." Since the commissioner can't/won't explain how that happened I will help him explain it to you. He imported the free agent offers and simmed the first of the three days. That is when Alaska, Baton Rouge, and West Texas and possibly Hawaii, but we don't know because the Hawaii email was deleted, got the email from Munenori stating Baton Rouge had the best offer. The commissioner then made an offer to Munenori on the second day to be simmed and completed that day. Hawaii then got an email from Munenori saying he either liked their offer or still preferred my offer, we don't know which because the Hawaii email was deleted. On the third day to be simmed, if the commissioners team didn't have the best offer from the second day, he made another offer to Munenori and simmed that day, and he would have gotten an email from Munenori saying he liked his offer, but once again we don't know because he deleted Hawaii's email. The best case scenario is that the commissioner, in his own words from above, was "doing something wrong in the bidding." To call that an unfortunate event that happened to the Baton Rouge owner is comical. The worst case is that he looked at the offer to Munenori and then made an offer to beat it, which is why I made an offer his team wouldn't be able to beat. If he thinks it's fine for him to be "doing something wrong in the bidding" who knows what else he thinks is just fine for him to do? The simming of the playoffs without an export from my team after I had exported all season is shady at best. My team was using a 5 man rotation with my 5th starter scheduled to pitch next. As I told the commissioner by email, the league waited weeks for him several times while he took care of various issues, yet he couldn't wait 2 days and at least make an effort to find out why someone who exports regularly hadn't exported for the playoffs. I don't think any other commissioner in any of my other leagues would do something like that, especially if the team involved was playing their own team. Maybe I expected more from this commissioner than he is capable of. The reason I have my facts straight on the Munenori incident and it seems like I wrote them in a book is because I saved the game files. I looked at them to get the days that were simmed, names of the teams that got the email, and everything else correct. If you or any member of the league, or anyone thinking of joining this league want to look at them, I will send them to you. If my team had been playing someone else in the playoffs and he made roster changes to my team to sim it would be easier to take. If another team was named as having the best offer from the free agent when email to 3 teams say otherwise, it would be easier to take. If yet another team had their email deleted it would be easier to take, but it is always the commissioners team that these events happen with. I gave him a second chance and he blew it.

12-24-2006, 07:40 AM	#16
Leahcim Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Niagara Falls, NY Posts: 32	The bottom line is this. After the first free agency sim a player lists the commissioner's team as having the best offer in spite of 3 emails to teams saying it is not the commissioner's team that has the best offer. If you're the type of person that isn't bothered if the commissioner's team magically has the best offer to free agents, or that any evidence to explain how that magical offer came about is deleted by the commissioner, then by all means join Dark Horse and BatBoy and the other person who just joined the forum this month in the league. Take Baton Rouge. They are a good, young team.