opinion on the future of OOTP

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Not fringe, but certaintly not the majority.


Come to think of it, why in the hell would anyone want hobbit names?
BTW what the hell is a hobbit?

It is far from fringe. I don't see why it's so awful for those of us who don't want to set lineups for our Rookie League team in the Appy League. I know you are going to tell me it is a GM game, but GM's have nothing to do with anything that happens in the Appy League. If you have a first round pick playing there they might have made that pick. Otherwise the team is stocked with players that aren't identified or drafted by the GM, and the lineups are set by the manager with input from the minor league operations personnel. People whom all report to the GM in the end, but on a day to day basis the GM is not involved in these decisions.

Again, some of us want to play a game, not feel like we are trapped in detail hell.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I rest my case.

Honestly you don't have a case. Constantly saying 'dumbing down' iis not a case. We got it, you want the game to be exactly like FM, ignoring the fact that the sports are completely different and that the audiences are completely different.

Now I'll let you get back to calling me stupid and lazy and looking for 'instant gratification'. I didn't realize that playing a sports text sim on my computer was like searching for eternal knowledge, I thought it was supposed to be fun. I didn't realize I shouldn't expect to have fun until I've taken a long spiritual journey, after which only then can I realize that setting the lineups for my Gulf Coast League team where there isn't a player with a potential higher then 30 is the truly the highest form of entertainment.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

which is really the point of the game)

Here is your problem, you've decided for everyone what the point of the game is and how they should play. People have always played this game differently, some on-line, some fictional, so historical... some play it in all these ways at different times. They have always played that way and they would like to continue to play that way.

Thanks for being here for us though to tell us how we should play the game and what the point of it is. We never could have figured it out without your guidance.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

It is far from fringe. I don't see why it's so awful for those of us who don't want to set lineups for our Rookie League team in the Appy League. I know you are going to tell me it is a GM game, but GM's have nothing to do with anything that happens in the Appy League. If you have a first round pick playing there they might have made that pick. Otherwise the team is stocked with players that aren't identified or drafted by the GM, and the lineups are set by the manager with input from the minor league operations personnel. People whom all report to the GM in the end, but on a day to day basis the GM is not involved in these decisions.

Again, some of us want to play a game, not feel like we are trapped in detail hell.

Minor league managers do setup lineups in the game

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Here is your problem, you've decided for everyone what the point of the game is and how they should play. People have always played this game differently, some on-line, some fictional, so historical... some play it in all these ways at different times. They have always played that way and they would like to continue to play that way.

Thanks for being here for us though to tell us how we should play the game and what the point of it is. We never could have figured it out without your guidance.

You are more than welcome.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

You are more than welcome.

I've tried to fight the good fight. I know there are many people who loved OOTP who hate the new version. Clearly many of them have disappeared after giving up. SI moved a lot of licences, but I can't find more then a handful of people who actually prefer the new version to 6.5. I know I'm going to be told I'm wrong about this, but the number of on-line leagues that haven't switched is the canary in the coal mine.

I was hoping that this game would go back to being as enjoyable as it was in past versions, and I guess I can find out when the demo is released next year, but I'm also just going to disappear now and allow the lunatic fringe of OOTP diehards finish killing this game.

[canadiancreed]

[PSUColonel]

[ey215]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

but I can't find more then a handful of people who actually prefer the new version to 6.5.

/em raises his hand.

I don't speak for everyone, but really the grouping of well, pretty much everyone into this statement is just wrong. Look, I'm not saying that a vast majority of players prefers '06 to 6.5, but to proclaim that it is the other way around without evidence really does no good.

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

I know I'm going to be told I'm wrong about this, but the number of on-line leagues that haven't switched is the canary in the coal mine.

The rewrite is not the only issue here. A large part of this is how '06 handles online play and the work that needs to be done it that area. Also, not that I think many leagues that haven't converted are going to, but historically many leagues didn't convert immediately following any of the game's past realeases.

Finally, I may be imagining things, but did historical, fictional, and MLB simmers all get called "fringe" groups in this thread?

[sfgiants88]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

yea, there have been plenty demanding less..particularly those who are into stat starring(simming long periods of time, ony to examine stats...rather than being a GM, which is really the point of the game)

Your insinuation that simmers are more "dumb" and/or lazy is silly.

I personally never cared for historical replay, but I certainly don't insist that the Historical aspect of the game be abandoned, which seems to be your stance on simmers. For an "enlightened" GM such as yourself, this post comes off as remarkably narrow.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Okay, I must've missed that.

Just out of curiosity, is there a clear majority advocating the return of ghost players and a truncated minors system, or is this simply the opinion of an odd fringe - you know, the same group who advocates the inclusion of female players and Hobbit name files in the game?

Don't know on ghost players and truncated minors. Some people don't want a 2nd job and will whine about setting Appalachian League lineups. I can't remember the last time I bothered. I run 3 levels like in OOTP 6. It's flexible, customizable, and it works. What I think drives historical simmers nuts is the reserve rosters in lieu of a minor league system chock full of fakes.

The female players request got politely ignored. The pbp xml can be modded by a simple find/replace using Word, that's about it.

Hobbits names are a 3rd party mod. Real development time and interest in name files is applied to American, Japanese, and Spanish names. There's secondary level interest in many other sectors on this topic. The Hobbit loving folks modded the data files themselves. Can't blame them for customizing a customizable set of files.

Really, things get looked at based on modern MLB data obtained from Retrosheet, and output gets compared against that, and other data collected from Baseball Prospectus and so on. Markus has repeatedly stated that he uses Retrosheet data for the engine output.

[darkenigma510]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

It is far from fringe. I don't see why it's so awful for those of us who don't want to set lineups for our Rookie League team in the Appy League. I know you are going to tell me it is a GM game, but GM's have nothing to do with anything that happens in the Appy League. If you have a first round pick playing there they might have made that pick. Otherwise the team is stocked with players that aren't identified or drafted by the GM, and the lineups are set by the manager with input from the minor league operations personnel. People whom all report to the GM in the end, but on a day to day basis the GM is not involved in these decisions.

Again, some of us want to play a game, not feel like we are trapped in detail hell.

Here's a thought: why not let the computer pick your minor league line ups for you?? Might save you some dreaded detail and angst.

[darkenigma510]

FM and ESHM are very different from OOTP in three ways:

1) FM and ESHM were always designed as micro-management games. OOTP certainly didn't come from those roots.

2) FM and ESHM really have no close competition whereas the baseball sim market is chock full of "niche" games which compete against OOTP. SI has to listen to its baseball fan base and be more accomodating than the FM and ESHM producers.

3) FM and ESHM are rigid games that model current day soccer and NHL, respectively. They do not support historical or alternative set-ups to modern day leagues. OOTP's strong point is that it can be tailored, with enough work, to reasonably simulate most eras of baseball as well as allow purely fictional type leagues.

[sfgiants88]

Originally Posted by darkenigma510

FM and ESHM are very different from OOTP in three ways:

1) FM and ESHM were always designed as micro-management games. OOTP certainly didn't come from those roots.

2) FM and ESHM really have no close competition whereas the baseball sim market is chock full of "niche" games which compete against OOTP. SI has to listen to its baseball fan base and be more accomodating than the FM and ESHM producers.

3) FM and ESHM are rigid games that model current day soccer and NHL, respectively. They do not support historical or alternative set-ups to modern day leagues. OOTP's strong point is that it can be tailored, with enough work, to reasonably simulate most eras of baseball as well as allow purely fictional type leagues.

I agree with this post. I hope OOTP sticks with what has been successful in the past. It seems like we are on the right track with OOTP2007.

[Sdpm100]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

FM is considered the best tex GM sim of all time.

Nah, the best Tex is the one in my avatar. IMHO of course, but then I might be biased.

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Even the illustrious FM, which you yourself hold up as the paradigm of sports text sims, isn’t perfect.

For sure! Still no J.League, and the way they deal with weather in the game is truly woeful. Just don't go moaning about FM at SI's forums, or the locals will rip your head off.

EDIT - and not forgetting absolutely no customization allowed (that goes for NHL EHM as well).

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by darkenigma510

FM and ESHM are rigid games that model current day soccer and NHL, respectively. They do not support historical or alternative set-ups to modern day leagues.

Which is precisely why neither gets my gaming dollar. Now that's not to say I would expect maximum customization when the games have never been geared in that direction before, but at least throw me a bone and put a little something in there which can be built upon for future editions.

[Splitter24]

I bought the previous iteration of EHM. I enjoyed it for a little while. But what I was really hoping for was an OOTP-like hockey sim where I could re-create the 80's all over again.

[Cowboys3356]

Bottom line is that this version of OOTP has "failed" in terms of improving over previous versions. Will the next version be better...who knows but you can not deny the flaws of this game because if it worked great then this thread (or the hundreds of other ones like it) would not exist.

[APujols5]

Originally Posted by Cowboys3356

Bottom line is that this version of OOTP has "failed" in terms of improving over previous versions. Will the next version be better...who knows but you can not deny the flaws of this game because if it worked great then this thread (or the hundreds of other ones like it) would not exist.

In Your eyes it failed. To many others it was a huge improvement.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Cowboys3356

Bottom line is that this version of OOTP has "failed" in terms of improving over previous versions. Will the next version be better...who knows but you can not deny the flaws of this game because if it worked great then this thread (or the hundreds of other ones like it) would not exist.

2006 is a better game.