Rockies/Astros Trade

Green & Gold Heart · 12-12-2006, 05:27 PM

The Astros get Jason Jennings and Miguel Ascencio from Colorado for Willy Taverez, Jason Hirsch, and Taylor Buchholz.

Good trade for the Rox, since Jennings wasn't going to sign with them anyway. Looks like they got some good value!

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6265388

Dark Horse · 12-12-2006, 05:32 PM

If Astros can re-sign Jennings this will be pretty good for the Astros.

But they'll need to find a centerfielder.

Plus, he's a Texan.

He pitched for Baylor University.

Melo · 12-12-2006, 05:34 PM

Dammit, I was hoping the Mets could swing a deal for Jennings.

Joshv02 · 12-12-2006, 05:42 PM

Jason Hirsh is one of my favorite prospects. I love Jason. Love, sweeet love.

Green & Gold Heart · 12-12-2006, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshv02

Jason Hirsh is one of my favorite prospects. I love Jason. Love, sweeet love.

And the good news for the Rockies is that they should have Helton off the books by the time Hirsch is eligible for free agency. Barely.

Joshv02 · 12-12-2006, 05:46 PM

Maybe Hirsh's kids will have b'nei mitzvah by the time Helton get off the books!

DanIver · 12-12-2006, 06:00 PM

This trade could really improve the Astros offense next year.

Astros33Resurrected · 12-12-2006, 06:02 PM

i dont like this deal at all.

attackemu · 12-12-2006, 06:10 PM

I really hope the Rockies don't see Taveras as the future in centerfield, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do. He's good defensively, which is a big deal at Coors Field, but his talent with the bat (slap/bunt singles) is exactly the opposite of what the Rockies should be doing and happens also to be Clint Hurdle's favourite thing to do. Giving him another player who's "good at it" is bad, bad news. The Hurdle/Taveras combination is going to be good for a whole lot of outs next year.

Buchholz and Hirsh. . .um, look like typical Rockies pitchers to me. What's the deal? Wasn't Jamey Wright available again?

Anyway, I don't like this trade at all. I would like to think the Rockies could have gotten more for Jennings.

DanIver · 12-12-2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by attackemu

Anyway, I don't like this trade at all. I would like to think the Rockies could have gotten more for Jennings.

Funny, because the vast majority of Astro fans at forums I go to are about to start a riot outside Minute Maid Park.

Right now, I don't think this trade is blatantly bad for either team. I'll wait and see how Hirsh is and if the Astros can get an extension signed with Jennings.

KILLERBS24 · 12-12-2006, 06:19 PM

You wanted more for Jennings?? Wow, as it is this was a horrible deal for Houston. Your farther ahead to put these kids in the rotation instead of Jennings, who is just terribly average.

attackemu · 12-12-2006, 06:26 PM

I would guess the majority of people are vastly overrating Willy Taveras, and also I think nothing in Hirsh and Buchholz's minor league numbers (or limited major league numbers, for that matter) indicates that they'll be any better than Jennings for the next few years. I guess the deal saves some money, but I really don't get it. The Astros, meanwhile, improve their rotation for 2007 and clear up the logjam in the outfield. I don't see how this is a bad deal for them.

KILLERBS24 · 12-12-2006, 06:44 PM

Take Taveras out of it because nobody is looking at him as the centerpiece to this deal. You just answered the question, you said you don't think they'll be any better than Jennings the next couple years, but they could do as well as Jennings will do. So to trade both of them to get pretty much the same production back, and pay alot more for it makes absolutley no sense. The line they will use to sell the deal is that Jennings is a "proven" player, which is a dumb argument when the "proven player" has proven to be nothing more than average.

And as far as not being impressed with those guys numbers, Hirsh put up better minor league numbers than Jennings ever did, and Buchholtz pitched a half season in the majors last year and put up basically the same type line as Jennings. I don't know if your expecting to see Kazmir type minor league numbers or what, but both of them put up very solid years at AAA for their age. If Houston put both of them in the rotation this year at least one would have put up Jennings numbers, and more likely both would have been reasonably close.

Skipaway · 12-12-2006, 07:08 PM

The Freddy Garcia trade is not bad for comparison.

attackemu · 12-12-2006, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

Take Taveras out of it because nobody is looking at him as the centerpiece to this deal. You just answered the question, you said you don't think they'll be any better than Jennings the next couple years, but they could do as well as Jennings will do. So to trade both of them to get pretty much the same production back, and pay alot more for it makes absolutley no sense. The line they will use to sell the deal is that Jennings is a "proven" player, which is a dumb argument when the "proven player" has proven to be nothing more than average.

And as far as not being impressed with those guys numbers, Hirsh put up better minor league numbers than Jennings ever did, and Buchholtz pitched a half season in the majors last year and put up basically the same type line as Jennings. I don't know if your expecting to see Kazmir type minor league numbers or what, but both of them put up very solid years at AAA for their age. If Houston put both of them in the rotation this year at least one would have put up Jennings numbers, and more likely both would have been reasonably close.

Can't take Taveras out of it no matter whether people are considering him the centerpiece or not. He'll more than likely be the starting center fielder next year, and more than likely gobble up a lot of outs at the top of the order. The pitchers may have been more important in terms of Dan O'Dowd actually making the deal, but I'll bet dollars to whatever that Taveras will be more important in terms of the deal's effect on the Rockies in 2007.

Also, Jason Jennings is a league average, innings-eating machine. And I think that's a fine thing for a Rockies pitcher to be. The rest of the Rockies rotation, Francis/Cook/Kim/some combination of Buchholz, Hirsh and Ubaldo Jimenez, are some degree or another likely to blow up completely in 2007. Jennings is very unlikely to blow up completely. He's a league-average innings eater. Buchholz and Hirsh could end up being better, sure, but they could end up being much worse, too.

That risk, in conjunction with adding a whole lot of outs to what could otherwise be the best offense the Rockies have ever had, makes the trade bad for the Rockies. And that's without mentioning Ascencio. The Astros basically traded two maybe-good prospect pitchers and one super-speedy out-machine for one league average innings eater and one maybe-good prospect pitcher. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Skipaway · 12-12-2006, 08:31 PM

Jason Jennings is a FA after 2007, and that fact along makes him not THAT valuable, just like Freddy Garcia.

Unless the Rockies got an old team and must go for the short term, they'd be much better off with Hirsh.

Willy Taveras is basically a replacement level bat with good defense. That's actually not that bad unless he's blocking someone.

attackemu · 12-12-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Jason Jennings is a FA after 2007, and that fact along makes him not THAT valuable, just like Freddy Garcia.

Unless the Rockies got an old team and must go for the short term, they'd be much better off with Hirsh.

Willy Taveras is basically a replacement level bat with good defense. That's actually not that bad unless he's blocking someone.

It is worse than it would otherwise be at Coors Field, where guys who can hit it out of the infield are pretty much all you need to score runs at home.

Skipaway · 12-13-2006, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by attackemu

It is worse than it would otherwise be at Coors Field, where guys who can hit it out of the infield are pretty much all you need to score runs at home.

First of all, the Coors Field is not the same as it used to be. Its park factors is about the same as Royals Stadium now, and only boosts homeruns by 10%.

Secondly, his defense value should increase.

Astros33Resurrected · 12-13-2006, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by attackemu

I would guess the majority of people are vastly overrating Willy Taveras, and also I think nothing in Hirsh and Buchholz's minor league numbers (or limited major league numbers, for that matter) indicates that they'll be any better than Jennings for the next few years. I guess the deal saves some money, but I really don't get it. The Astros, meanwhile, improve their rotation for 2007 and clear up the logjam in the outfield. I don't see how this is a bad deal for them.

It means Lane will play CF which is a scary thought.

Bay Area Bob · 12-13-2006, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astros33Resurrected

It means Lane will play CF which is a scary thought.

It's hardly as scary as Tavares leading the team in Plate Appearances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanIver

This trade could really improve the Astros offense next year.

qft

12-12-2006, 05:27 PM	#1
Green & Gold Heart Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 5,242	Rockies/Astros Trade The Astros get Jason Jennings and Miguel Ascencio from Colorado for Willy Taverez, Jason Hirsch, and Taylor Buchholz. Good trade for the Rox, since Jennings wasn't going to sign with them anyway. Looks like they got some good value! http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6265388 Last edited by Green & Gold Heart; 12-12-2006 at 05:29 PM.

12-12-2006, 05:32 PM	#2
Dark Horse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas! Posts: 2,633	If Astros can re-sign Jennings this will be pretty good for the Astros. But they'll need to find a centerfielder. Plus, he's a Texan. He pitched for Baylor University. __________________ A Justafan Fan LBA Geo Bahn Rock Hounds fan of the ISLANDIAN PRO ALLIANCE

12-12-2006, 05:42 PM	#4
Joshv02 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: , " Posts: 3,082	Jason Hirsh is one of my favorite prospects. I love Jason. Love, sweeet love. __________________ Brookline Maccabees. RIP

12-12-2006, 05:46 PM	#6
Joshv02 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: , " Posts: 3,082	Maybe Hirsh's kids will have b'nei mitzvah by the time Helton get off the books! __________________ Brookline Maccabees. RIP

12-12-2006, 06:10 PM	#9
attackemu All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 972	I really hope the Rockies don't see Taveras as the future in centerfield, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do. He's good defensively, which is a big deal at Coors Field, but his talent with the bat (slap/bunt singles) is exactly the opposite of what the Rockies should be doing and happens also to be Clint Hurdle's favourite thing to do. Giving him another player who's "good at it" is bad, bad news. The Hurdle/Taveras combination is going to be good for a whole lot of outs next year. Buchholz and Hirsh. . .um, look like typical Rockies pitchers to me. What's the deal? Wasn't Jamey Wright available again? Anyway, I don't like this trade at all. I would like to think the Rockies could have gotten more for Jennings. __________________ "Disguised in EMU's Blunt and sometimes hostile post is actually very sound advice. I think you would be wise to consider what he said." -ihatenames

12-12-2006, 05:34 PM	#3
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	Dammit, I was hoping the Mets could swing a deal for Jennings.

12-12-2006, 06:00 PM	#7
DanIver Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 28	This trade could really improve the Astros offense next year.

12-12-2006, 06:02 PM	#8
Astros33Resurrected Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lufkin, TX Posts: 2,213	i dont like this deal at all.

12-12-2006, 06:19 PM	#11
KILLERBS24 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 938	You wanted more for Jennings?? Wow, as it is this was a horrible deal for Houston. Your farther ahead to put these kids in the rotation instead of Jennings, who is just terribly average. __________________ Asterisked legacy: Barry Bonds, the greatest steroid user ever

12-12-2006, 06:26 PM	#12
attackemu All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 972	I would guess the majority of people are vastly overrating Willy Taveras, and also I think nothing in Hirsh and Buchholz's minor league numbers (or limited major league numbers, for that matter) indicates that they'll be any better than Jennings for the next few years. I guess the deal saves some money, but I really don't get it. The Astros, meanwhile, improve their rotation for 2007 and clear up the logjam in the outfield. I don't see how this is a bad deal for them. __________________ "Disguised in EMU's Blunt and sometimes hostile post is actually very sound advice. I think you would be wise to consider what he said." -ihatenames

12-12-2006, 06:44 PM	#13
KILLERBS24 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 938	Take Taveras out of it because nobody is looking at him as the centerpiece to this deal. You just answered the question, you said you don't think they'll be any better than Jennings the next couple years, but they could do as well as Jennings will do. So to trade both of them to get pretty much the same production back, and pay alot more for it makes absolutley no sense. The line they will use to sell the deal is that Jennings is a "proven" player, which is a dumb argument when the "proven player" has proven to be nothing more than average. And as far as not being impressed with those guys numbers, Hirsh put up better minor league numbers than Jennings ever did, and Buchholtz pitched a half season in the majors last year and put up basically the same type line as Jennings. I don't know if your expecting to see Kazmir type minor league numbers or what, but both of them put up very solid years at AAA for their age. If Houston put both of them in the rotation this year at least one would have put up Jennings numbers, and more likely both would have been reasonably close. __________________ Asterisked legacy: Barry Bonds, the greatest steroid user ever Last edited by KILLERBS24; 12-12-2006 at 06:56 PM.

12-12-2006, 07:08 PM	#14
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	The Freddy Garcia trade is not bad for comparison. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

12-12-2006, 08:31 PM	#16
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	Jason Jennings is a FA after 2007, and that fact along makes him not THAT valuable, just like Freddy Garcia. Unless the Rockies got an old team and must go for the short term, they'd be much better off with Hirsh. Willy Taveras is basically a replacement level bat with good defense. That's actually not that bad unless he's blocking someone. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.