spring training question

thehef · 11-28-2006, 09:59 PM

I do historical simming. I like things to be fairly realistic and somewhat match actual history, but I don't mind surprises and am not fanatical about, for example, league batting averages matching exactly... However, I do maintain a fair amount of control over all teams. For example, I rarely run the computer manager on any entire team. Instead, I set all the lineups and pitching staffs, although I often use "generate auto staff/lineup/depth..." as a starting point.

Anyway, when I run spring training, I've never adjusted any of the points for the players, nor do I "ask coaching staff." I have NO desire to go thru every team and assign spring training points. But my question is, am I better off leaving all players' points untouched and identical and running spring training - as I have been, or should I "ask coaching staff" for each team? Thanks in advance.

Curve Ball Dave · 11-28-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

But my question is, am I better off leaving all players' points untouched and identical and running spring training - as I have been, or should I "ask coaching staff" for each team? Thanks in advance.

The answer to both is "yes". It's a matter of preference. Players are not going to develop exactly as they do in real life anyway. Asking the coaching staff puts some variation into the development. If you leave the teams with computer managers the spring training points will be assigned per the coaches anyway. If you leave the points at the defaults a player well also develop contrary to history because a young player is going to to need more work in one area than in another. Leaving everything at 5 won't allow emphasis where the player needs it the most and will give too much where he doesn't.

So the issue is six of one, half dozen of another. There is no right or wrong answer.

sfgiants88 · 11-29-2006, 01:37 AM

I recall a button that says "Cancel Spring Training." Maybe that's another possibility?

thehef · 11-29-2006, 09:53 PM

Ok, I understand the pros and cons of each. However, is there any consensus out there regarding which method - leave at defaults or ask coaches - will result in development that more closely matches history? Is one method more likely to produce aberrations, for example a Mark Belanger that turns out to be a .280/25 HR player? Or will either method result in equal doses of randomness?

Magatsu · 11-30-2006, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

Ok, I understand the pros and cons of each. However, is there any consensus out there regarding which method - leave at defaults or ask coaches - will result in development that more closely matches history? Is one method more likely to produce aberrations, for example a Mark Belanger that turns out to be a .280/25 HR player? Or will either method result in equal doses of randomness?

The last question is interesting. Here are my

(I'm sorry if I'm stating the obvious):

- If you leave everything untouched (all four categories with 5 points), no player will decline. Some will improve in some categories and some will be unaffected but nobody will get worse in any categorie.

- If you ask the coaching staff, I guess the old OOTP-rule ("OOTP doesn't know names") takes effect. All changes in a players development after he was imported are completely random and I think the ST-coaching-staff-AI will act the same, i.e. he sees a guy with 30/90/40 ratings rather than Dave Kingman and decides to put all his power ST-points to improve his contact. Thus (if it works) the AI might turn him into a totally different player (over time that is, cause the ST-changes are marginal).

- Since I assume you imported the players with "ratings based on remaining career", the proposed "cancel Spring Training"-button seems like the best option to me. Thus you only have to deal with the in-season random development changes. If you run ST you will have small changes in both scenarios mentioned above. Not as big as the in-season talent or ratings boosts (or hits), but over the course of a career noticeable.

Hope that helps

.

M

P.S.: ... and I just realized that I more or less said the same as Curve Ball Dave

... and came to the same conclusion as sfgiants88 .... anyway take it FWIW ...

cesser · 11-30-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

If you leave everything untouched (all four categories with 5 points), no player will decline.

I'm almost certain that players can still have ratings-drops (although probably not anything major) even if left at the "all 5's" default.

If not, then how random is that?

thehef · 11-30-2006, 04:16 PM

Cesser is correct. I'm in my 20th year of a historical sim and I've never adjusted the points - I've always left them at the default value. And when I run spring training and look at the notes, I always see a few players whose attributes have dropped. Interestingly, the players whose attributes have improved seem to outnumber those who have dropped by maybe a 10-to-1 ratio...

I could see where letting the coaches decide might be the better way to go because it seem like common sense that, for example, a strikeout-prone shortstop would work on making contact in spring training, or an quick-to-tire pitcher would work on building endurance. But, OTOH, I've had pretty good success with my historical sim and am happy with how things have turned out. (Then again, I cheat: If I see someone like Harmon Killebrew fading to a .220/15 HR player in his late twenties - I give him a boost!)

Curve Ball Dave · 11-30-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magatsu

- If you ask the coaching staff, I guess the old OOTP-rule ("OOTP doesn't know names") takes effect. All changes in a players development after he was imported are completely random and I think the ST-coaching-staff-AI will act the same, i.e. he sees a guy with 30/90/40 ratings rather than Dave Kingman and decides to put all his power ST-points to improve his contact. Thus (if it works) the AI might turn him into a totally different player (over time that is, cause the ST-changes are marginal).

When I run spring training for my team in my solo league I start with "ask coaching staff". However, I reserve the right to disagree so I am at liberty to add a point here and subtract a point there.

Personally, I wouldn't have had a problem with Dave Kingman cutting down on his strikeouts if he was on my team. But that's a topic for another thread

Magatsu · 12-01-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cesser

I'm almost certain that players can still have ratings-drops (although probably not anything major) even if left at the "all 5's" default.

If not, then how random is that?

Oops, sorry, I thought I read that somewhere but I could be wrong. I always leave it untouched and personally never saw a negative comment in the ST-summaries. Again that could just be luck of the draw.

M

cesser · 12-01-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

always leave it untouched and personally never saw a negative comment in the ST-summaries.

The summaries don't necessarily relate to ratings changes. Next time you run through a spring training, you should compare player ratings from before and after the sim - you'll notice lots of changes in player ratings that aren't listed in the ST news. Also, I've seen the news mention that a player has great batting sessions, etc, but no rating change takes place (though perhaps it is a precursor to changes in the near future).

11-28-2006, 09:59 PM	#1
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,394	spring training question I do historical simming. I like things to be fairly realistic and somewhat match actual history, but I don't mind surprises and am not fanatical about, for example, league batting averages matching exactly... However, I do maintain a fair amount of control over all teams. For example, I rarely run the computer manager on any entire team. Instead, I set all the lineups and pitching staffs, although I often use "generate auto staff/lineup/depth..." as a starting point. Anyway, when I run spring training, I've never adjusted any of the points for the players, nor do I "ask coaching staff." I have NO desire to go thru every team and assign spring training points. But my question is, am I better off leaving all players' points untouched and identical and running spring training - as I have been, or should I "ask coaching staff" for each team? Thanks in advance.

11-29-2006, 01:37 AM	#3
sfgiants88 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 885	I recall a button that says "Cancel Spring Training." Maybe that's another possibility?

11-29-2006, 09:53 PM	#4
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,394	Ok, I understand the pros and cons of each. However, is there any consensus out there regarding which method - leave at defaults or ask coaches - will result in development that more closely matches history? Is one method more likely to produce aberrations, for example a Mark Belanger that turns out to be a .280/25 HR player? Or will either method result in equal doses of randomness?

11-30-2006, 04:16 PM	#7
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,394	Cesser is correct. I'm in my 20th year of a historical sim and I've never adjusted the points - I've always left them at the default value. And when I run spring training and look at the notes, I always see a few players whose attributes have dropped. Interestingly, the players whose attributes have improved seem to outnumber those who have dropped by maybe a 10-to-1 ratio... I could see where letting the coaches decide might be the better way to go because it seem like common sense that, for example, a strikeout-prone shortstop would work on making contact in spring training, or an quick-to-tire pitcher would work on building endurance. But, OTOH, I've had pretty good success with my historical sim and am happy with how things have turned out. (Then again, I cheat: If I see someone like Harmon Killebrew fading to a .220/15 HR player in his late twenties - I give him a boost!)