Plexi-glass Burress - Page 2

marc · 11-11-2006, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

I like how people believe that what an athlete says has any impact on the game whatsoever. Acting like the Bears are going to suddenly work harder to shut him down is an insult because it implies they weren't giving 100% to begin with.

I like how people totally disregard things like this and say they never have an impact on the game.

It doesn't imply anything about their previous effort. Say you go out and try to lift the backend of your small 2 or 4 door car off the ground, just slightly. You fail. Now let's say you're backing out of your driveway and you hit your small child and your small child is stuck under the car and you need to left the backend up so they can get out. You lift it up every so slightly so that your child can get out.

Did you not try your hardest the first time??

Sure, that was an extreme example but the basic premise is true. You can be trying your best to do something and fail but when given that extra motivation or adrenaline rush, you can do things that you previously could not do.

It also works in reverse. A player that runs his mouth might feel added pressure to go out on the field and back it up and make mistakes that he normally wouldn't have made if not for the added pressure.

Anyone that has ever played or coached a down of football knows that things like these can boost a teams emotions for the game and can sometimes alter the outcome. It doesn't always mean an underdog is going to win but it does have an effect.

Jason Moyer · 11-11-2006, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc

It doesn't imply anything about their previous effort. Say you go out and try to lift the backend of your small 2 or 4 door car off the ground, just slightly. You fail. Now let's say you're backing out of your driveway and you hit your small child and your small child is stuck under the car and you need to left the backend up so they can get out. You lift it up every so slightly so that your child can get out.

If I had spent my entire life training to pick up cars and I had gotten so good at it that someone was willing to pay me 6 or 7 figures to do it I'm pretty sure I'd be able to pick up the car just as easily in both situations. And really, the latter situation shouldn't be "what if a child was under there" but "what if some idiot said 'OMG UR A WUSS, U CAN'T LIFT A CAR UP LOL'".

marc · 11-11-2006, 07:14 AM

I take it you never played or coached football before? I also take it that you've never even been in the locker room with a football team?

Trash talk can get the other team more motivated to play. I've seen it personally dozens of times.

Rivalry games pretty much blow your theory out of the water as well. Watch an OSU/Michigan game and tell me that emotions don't play a role.

On more than one occassion in the 90's some OSU player ran his mouth before a Michigan game and ended up getting blasted on the field by a team that they should have beaten by 3 TD's. Now if you wanna say that it was mere coincidence and that the smack talk or the emotions of the rivalry had nothing to do with the score then there's really no use even discussing this with you.

1998 Yankees · 11-11-2006, 09:46 AM

marc has it right.

Sure, these guys are at the top of their sport after years of development and training. Also for sure is that if the score is lop-sided or there is no chance of making the playoffs or you've been pushing around the same 300-pound tackle for three quarters or chasing the receiver who's already burned you twice, you may feel tired and pull back a bit on the effort. If that tackle or receiver is the guy who disrespected you and your team in print on the bulletin board, maybe you don't feel tired as much and maybe each play has a lot more meaning than it would otherwise.

I only dimly remember my team sport days, but I do recall that you needed something to get you through the fatigue and pain. That either came naturally from within or it came from outside motivation like the coach being on your case, the fear of being cut or ridiculed, or by hating the guts of the guy facing you. In the latter case, it sure helped if the guy had been woofing bad things about you to the general public.

Jason Moyer · 11-11-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc

I take it you never played or coached football before? I also take it that you've never even been in the locker room with a football team?

Not in the NFL, no. We're talking about motivation at the top level here, not college or high school.

My argument is purely that if a guy is good enough to be a top player in the NFL, he doesn't need the extra encouragement to give 100% every week. I wouldn't make the same argument at the college or high school levels.

JDOldSchool · 11-11-2006, 01:00 PM

FWIW, I don't want any player on my team if they need some dope on the other side talking smack to get fired up or motivated. I want 100% from my guys because it's THEIR JOB TO DO SO.

Any player who claims extra motivation/effort (not to be confused with extra meaning) would be shipped out as soon as it's reasonable to do so. They just admitted to not always giving their best.

messenjah · 11-11-2006, 01:34 PM

So how come it is always receivers? You barely ever hear of any other position being so whiny, but it's always receivers. TO, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, now Plexico. How many other receivers have caused emotional distress on their team by their loud mouths? How many RB's are like this? Just something I thought interesting. Why do you think it is like this?

marc · 11-11-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by messenjah

So how come it is always receivers? You barely ever hear of any other position being so whiny, but it's always receivers. TO, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, now Plexico. How many other receivers have caused emotional distress on their team by their loud mouths? How many RB's are like this? Just something I thought interesting. Why do you think it is like this?

They are the DIVA's of the NFL, no doubt about it.

Atleast with CJ it's usually all in good fun and he's usually messing with guys that he is good friends with. I'm pretty sure nobody likes the other 3.

QuestGAV · 11-11-2006, 01:45 PM

I don't think it has much of an effect. That being said, I wouldn't want my players doing it in the off chance it does make a difference.

Prodigal Son · 11-11-2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

I wouldn't make the same argument at the college or high school levels.

Why not?

QuestGAV · 11-11-2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

Why not?

To make it to the pros you have shown that you're ready to bring your best game everyday. At other levels people have different priorities. Once you start throwing 6 or 7 figures around, you hope things get rejiggered so that the sport is consistently higher on their list.

JDOldSchool · 11-11-2006, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

To make it to the pros you have shown that you're ready to bring your best game everyday. At other levels people have different priorities. Once you start throwing 6 or 7 figures around, you hope things get rejiggered so that the sport is consistently higher on their list.

Exactly, but also, you should hope that emotional swings are less of a factor. I realize that players aren't total machines, but you want guys who basically are as machine-like as possible on the field. As a kid, things aren't really like that.

Prodigal Son · 11-11-2006, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

To make it to the pros you have shown that you're ready to bring your best game everyday.

No, not really. To be a pro you simply have to bring enough to make the team. You'd be crazy to think that Lavar Arrington has brought his best every day he's been a pro. Lawrence Taylor would tell you himself how little he brought some days.

marc · 11-12-2006, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

No, not really. To be a pro you simply have to bring enough to make the team. You'd be crazy to think that Lavar Arrington has brought his best every day he's been a pro. Lawrence Taylor would tell you himself how little he brought some days.

"

*cough* Randy Moss *cough*

marc · 11-12-2006, 03:51 AM

If anything it happens in the pros for different reasons. You could attribute it to immaturity at the high school and college level. Don't think for one minute though that all that money doesn't create some REALLY lazy players.

1998 Yankees · 11-13-2006, 11:01 AM

From last night's game (Chicago 38, NY Giants 20):

"The Bears' defense answered the next time New York had the ball. Charles Tillman, one of the cornerbacks called 'average' by Giants receiver Plaxico Burress earlier in the week, intercepted a pass intended for Burress and returned it 11 yards to New York's 45."

Yes, that pass was forced by Manning. I remember another play, however, when somebody popped Burress at the five yard line, causing him to fumble/drop a pass that could have been a TD. Think there could have been a little extra force in that hit? For the most part, he was shut down. Burress' line for the night:

PotatoPeeler · 11-13-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc

"

*cough* Randy Moss *cough*

Reminds me of a joke.

Q: What's the difference between Randy Moss and a dollar bill?
A: You can get four quarters out of a dollar.

JDOldSchool · 11-13-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Yes, that pass was forced by Manning. I remember another play, however, when somebody popped Burress at the five yard line, causing him to fumble/drop a pass that could have been a TD. Think there could have been a little extra force in that hit? For the most part, he was shut down. Burress' line for the night:

It was Danieal Manning who forced the fumble, and no, I don't think he hit Burress extra hard because he was running his mouth during the week.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

I think Tillman will be able to handle him pretty well when Burress is on his side of the field.

That's exactly what happened, too. Burress couldn't use his size against a big CB like Peanut.

Lazareth · 11-13-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marioh

Da Bears are the most over-rated team in the NFL right now.

Plax should keep his mouth shut though, especially without Toomer on the other side to take some of the pressure off of him.

boy, you ready to eat those words now or what?

marioh · 11-13-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazareth

boy, you ready to eat those words now or what?

Which one, that the Bears are over-rated ?
After watching the entire game last night, I stick by that comment that the Bears are over-rated. In fact, their performance last night reinforced that thought for me.

11-11-2006, 07:14 AM	#23
marc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,505	I take it you never played or coached football before? I also take it that you've never even been in the locker room with a football team? Trash talk can get the other team more motivated to play. I've seen it personally dozens of times. Rivalry games pretty much blow your theory out of the water as well. Watch an OSU/Michigan game and tell me that emotions don't play a role. On more than one occassion in the 90's some OSU player ran his mouth before a Michigan game and ended up getting blasted on the field by a team that they should have beaten by 3 TD's. Now if you wanna say that it was mere coincidence and that the smack talk or the emotions of the rivalry had nothing to do with the score then there's really no use even discussing this with you. __________________

11-11-2006, 09:46 AM	#24
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	marc has it right. Sure, these guys are at the top of their sport after years of development and training. Also for sure is that if the score is lop-sided or there is no chance of making the playoffs or you've been pushing around the same 300-pound tackle for three quarters or chasing the receiver who's already burned you twice, you may feel tired and pull back a bit on the effort. If that tackle or receiver is the guy who disrespected you and your team in print on the bulletin board, maybe you don't feel tired as much and maybe each play has a lot more meaning than it would otherwise. I only dimly remember my team sport days, but I do recall that you needed something to get you through the fatigue and pain. That either came naturally from within or it came from outside motivation like the coach being on your case, the fear of being cut or ridiculed, or by hating the guts of the guy facing you. In the latter case, it sure helped if the guy had been woofing bad things about you to the general public. Last edited by 1998 Yankees; 11-11-2006 at 09:52 AM.

11-12-2006, 03:51 AM	#35
marc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,505	If anything it happens in the pros for different reasons. You could attribute it to immaturity at the high school and college level. Don't think for one minute though that all that money doesn't create some REALLY lazy players. __________________

11-13-2006, 11:01 AM	#36
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	From last night's game (Chicago 38, NY Giants 20): "The Bears' defense answered the next time New York had the ball. Charles Tillman, one of the cornerbacks called 'average' by Giants receiver Plaxico Burress earlier in the week, intercepted a pass intended for Burress and returned it 11 yards to New York's 45." Yes, that pass was forced by Manning. I remember another play, however, when somebody popped Burress at the five yard line, causing him to fumble/drop a pass that could have been a TD. Think there could have been a little extra force in that hit? For the most part, he was shut down. Burress' line for the night: Last edited by 1998 Yankees; 02-22-2008 at 11:29 AM.

11-11-2006, 01:00 PM	#26
JDOldSchool Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,023	FWIW, I don't want any player on my team if they need some dope on the other side talking smack to get fired up or motivated. I want 100% from my guys because it's THEIR JOB TO DO SO. Any player who claims extra motivation/effort (not to be confused with extra meaning) would be shipped out as soon as it's reasonable to do so. They just admitted to not always giving their best.

11-11-2006, 01:34 PM	#27
messenjah All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 565	So how come it is always receivers? You barely ever hear of any other position being so whiny, but it's always receivers. TO, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, now Plexico. How many other receivers have caused emotional distress on their team by their loud mouths? How many RB's are like this? Just something I thought interesting. Why do you think it is like this?

11-11-2006, 01:45 PM	#29
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,008	I don't think it has much of an effect. That being said, I wouldn't want my players doing it in the off chance it does make a difference.