Did Rogers Cheat - Page 13

AnotherAlias · 10-23-2006, 09:23 PM

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9744946

Quote:

And there were at least four different between-innings meetings between the umpires and various personnel -- involving both managers. Yet after the game, everybody took the old pretend-not-to-see-the-elephant-in-the-room stance...

The flurry of between-innings meetings started after the first inning, when the umpires and La Russa talked out by first base.

Then, after the top of the second, Rogers was greeted by plate ump Alfonso Marquez as he walked off the field toward the dugout, and the two of them chatted for a full minute. Then Leyland came out of the dugout and he and the umpires spoke.

Then, after the bottom of the second, Marquez went over to the crowd and spoke with Steve Palermo, an umpire supervisor who was sitting in the front row next to the Detroit dugout.

Sensitivity-training instructors hold fewer meetings...

Very interesting, indeed!

jaxmagicman · 10-23-2006, 09:37 PM

Guys I already won this argument on page 1. If he was cheating he would have been suspended. We are talking about a league that banned Willie Mays and Mickey Mantel for life (later over turned) for being ushers at a casino.

AnotherAlias · 10-23-2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

Guys I already won this argument on page 1.

I forgot! You did! Congratulations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

If he was cheating he would have been suspended. We are talking about a league that banned Willie Mays and Mickey Mantel for life (later over turned) for being ushers at a casino.

Guess they weren't interested in that sort of fiasco last night.

plannine · 10-23-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9744946

Very interesting, indeed!

from above article:

Whether Rogers has dry skin, dirt, pine tar or Tootsie Rolls on that white-hot left paw of his, truth is, none of it guarantees that opponents won't tee him up, anyway. He still must make pitches.

Maybe his ball was doing funny things simply because he's in a zone right now.

from MLB article:

La Russa's players didn't appear to be too upset about it on Monday as they went about preparing for Game 3 on Tuesday night at Busch Stadium.

"The fans feel we got cheated," outfielder John Rodriguez said. "But he pitched a good game. Obviously, if he cleaned it off, or whatever it was, he pitched good from the first inning all the way to the eighth. So I guess it really wasn't that."

Said second baseman Aaron Miles, "What can you say? He pitched a good game."

La Russa added that he has no regrets on how he handled the situation, "because we got it fixed and we still couldn't beat them."

AnotherAlias · 10-23-2006, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plannine

from above article:

Whether Rogers has dry skin, dirt, pine tar or Tootsie Rolls on that white-hot left paw of his, truth is, none of it guarantees that opponents won't tee him up, anyway. He still must make pitches.

Maybe his ball was doing funny things simply because he's in a zone right now.

from MLB article:

La Russa's players didn't appear to be too upset about it on Monday as they went about preparing for Game 3 on Tuesday night at Busch Stadium.

"The fans feel we got cheated," outfielder John Rodriguez said. "But he pitched a good game. Obviously, if he cleaned it off, or whatever it was, he pitched good from the first inning all the way to the eighth. So I guess it really wasn't that."

Said second baseman Aaron Miles, "What can you say? He pitched a good game."

La Russa added that he has no regrets on how he handled the situation, "because we got it fixed and we still couldn't beat them."

As we've all said, true. He pitched a great game. And we're all lucky this wasn't noticed in the 7th inning. It might have been a much different outcome.

cephasjames · 10-23-2006, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

Guys I already won this argument on page 1. If he was cheating he would have been suspended. We are talking about a league that banned Willie Mays and Mickey Mantel for life (later over turned) for being ushers at a casino.

Then why are there 13 frickin' pages! Man!

And I agree with your page one assessment.

JDOldSchool · 10-23-2006, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale And Eli's Dad

No matter how much you post you're not going to get agreement from some of the people you're most heatedly debating. AA showed with the MLB rules that you're right. However, you really need to acknowledge that because he wasn't caught by the umpires you can't prove beyond a doubt he's guilty. (Now, like I said before, I agree with you. I think he cheated. But this is another Bonds-esque situation.)

No, he absolutely did NOT. I have now copied the rule exception TWICE. AA just chooses to ignore what it says so he can pretend to be right, but, well, Rogers wasn't ejected and he wasn't suspended.

Proof AA doesn't actually read, a lot like another person in this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

(b) Have on his person, or in his possession, any foreign substance.

He appears from the photos we've seen to have a foreign substance on his palm. A clear violation of the rule.

The umps didn't press the issue, but the rule is clear.

You're right, the rule is clear. As is the loophole in the rule that I've posted. The foreign substance is only illegal if the umpire feels the pitcher was using it to alter the ball. Clearly, they didn't, thus, not illegal and not cheating.

AnotherAlias · 10-23-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cephasjames

And I agree with your page one assessment.

Yeah, even if he is wrong!

Magatsu · 10-23-2006, 10:48 PM

After reading the last five pages of this thread I had some comments on my fingertips (lips) but since it really calmed down, I drop my "12 Angry Men"-references and "innocent until proven guilty"-quotes.

But one thing still bothers me ... where is Skipaway when you need him??

We need more stats here to prove ... any point!!!!

M

AnotherAlias · 10-23-2006, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

No, he absolutely did NOT. I have now copied the rule exception TWICE. AA just chooses to ignore what it says so he can pretend to be right, but, well, Rogers wasn't ejected and he wasn't suspended.

Proof AA doesn't actually read, a lot like another person in this thread:

You're right, the rule is clear. As is the loophole in the rule that I've posted. The foreign substance is only illegal if the umpire feels the pitcher was using it to alter the ball. Clearly, they didn't, thus, not illegal and not cheating.

I didn't choose to ignore it, dude. I just happen to believe in what I've been posting more than I believe in what you have been posting. I respect you and your mind, but I think there is more to it than what you stated earlier.

I just feel that the rule is clear enough and he broke it. The umps, MLB and La Russa, having found out about it in the first inning, apparently decided to do nothing about it to save the integrity of the game and everyone involved. I explained all of this in a previous post. Even La Russa admits "It wasn't dirt." He was satisfied with Rogers cleaning it off and moved on.

If this had been caught late in the game, I believe La Russa might have made a stink over it. Everyone huddled and they decided to sweep it under the rug.

Subsequently, Rogers pitched a great game.

I don't just ignore stuff.

JDOldSchool · 10-23-2006, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

I didn't choose to ignore it, dude. I just happen to believe in what I've been posting more than I believe in what you have been posting. I respect you and your mind, but I think there is more to it than what you stated earlier.

I just feel that the rule is clear enough and he broke it. The umps, MLB and La Russa, having found out about it in the first inning, apparently decided to do nothing about it to save the integrity of the game and everyone involved. I explained all of this in a previous post. Even La Russa admits "It wasn't dirt." He was satisfied with Rogers cleaning it off and moved on.

If this had been caught late in the game, I believe La Russa might have made a stink over it. Everyone huddled and they decided to sweep it under the rug.

Subsequently, Rogers pitched a great game.

I don't just ignore stuff.

Based on who LaRussa is, I have a hard time accepting this. But it could be the case.

I still say there's no way it was pine tar.

But yeah, everyone pretty much...lies here. There's too many contradictions. I honestly think you're right by saying that Rogers pitched a great game. If he was cheating, seems like it wasn't necessary.

Cooleyvol · 10-23-2006, 11:35 PM

Peter Gammons said tonight on SC that it was most likely pine tar. He's talked to many pitchers today. All said they use a pine tar mixture sometimes.

GForce · 10-23-2006, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Peter Gammons said tonight on SC that it was most likely pine tar. He's talked to many pitchers today. All said they use a pine tar mixture sometimes.

Wonder if he talked to any Cardinals pitchers.

GH

LeiterFanatic · 10-23-2006, 11:58 PM

dont know if anyone posted this yet, I am not wading thru 200 posts, but this is a great article on Kenny Rogers' cap.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lukas/061023

mrskippy · 10-24-2006, 12:34 AM

So, Kenny Rogers uses an illegal substance. What are they going to do? Force the Tigers to forfeit the ALCS game against Oakland and force that series to play on? Hardly. Force the Tigers to forfeit Game 2 of the World Series? What would that solve? It'd only give the A's reason to ask for a forfeit of ALCS Game 3 and thus throw that series into question.

The reality is that there are other examples of cheating taking place that you'll never hear about.

mikev · 10-24-2006, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrskippy

So, Kenny Rogers uses an illegal substance. What are they going to do? Force the Tigers to forfeit the ALCS game against Oakland and force that series to play on? Hardly. Force the Tigers to forfeit Game 2 of the World Series? What would that solve? It'd only give the A's reason to ask for a forfeit of ALCS Game 3 and thus throw that series into question.

The reality is that there are other examples of cheating taking place that you'll never hear about.

Suspend him. Do not give him a World Series ring.

Just because some cheaters don't get caught doesn't mean you turn a blind eye to the ones that get caught on National Television.

darkhorse · 10-24-2006, 01:45 AM

If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin.

"Cheating is baseball's oldest profession. No other game is so rich in skullduggery, so suited to it or so proud of it."---Thomas Boswell

"I've cheated, or someone on my team has cheated, in almost every single game I've been in."---Rogers Hornsby

mikev · 10-24-2006, 02:25 AM

Does that make it okay?

darkhorse · 10-24-2006, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikev

Does that make it okay?

As long as they're trying to win and are willing to accept the consequences, it don't trouble my mind none.

mikev · 10-24-2006, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

As long as they're trying to win and are willing to accept the consequences, it don't trouble my mind none.

That's the problem though. He's not having to deal with the consequences, even though he was caught.

View Poll Results: Did Kenny Rogers Cheat During the Game Today?
Heck yeah! Nailed by the Camera!	25	28.41%
Insufficient Evidence to Convict...Probably Yes	34	38.64%
Dude, it was a GRASS STAIN!!! WOOT!!!!11!!!	20	22.73%
Llama Steaks are Quite Tasty!	9	10.23%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

10-23-2006, 09:37 PM	#242
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	Guys I already won this argument on page 1. If he was cheating he would have been suspended. We are talking about a league that banned Willie Mays and Mickey Mantel for life (later over turned) for being ushers at a casino. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

10-23-2006, 10:48 PM	#249
Magatsu Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: BO, Germany Posts: 206	After reading the last five pages of this thread I had some comments on my fingertips (lips) but since it really calmed down, I drop my "12 Angry Men"-references and "innocent until proven guilty"-quotes. But one thing still bothers me ... where is Skipaway when you need him?? We need more stats here to prove ... any point!!!! M Last edited by Magatsu; 10-24-2006 at 09:26 AM.

10-24-2006, 02:25 AM	#258
mikev Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 4,014	Does that make it okay? __________________ Global Unified Baseball Association - Vice Commish and Oakland Oaks GM

10-23-2006, 11:35 PM	#252
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	Peter Gammons said tonight on SC that it was most likely pine tar. He's talked to many pitchers today. All said they use a pine tar mixture sometimes.

10-23-2006, 11:58 PM	#254
LeiterFanatic All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 1,348	dont know if anyone posted this yet, I am not wading thru 200 posts, but this is a great article on Kenny Rogers' cap. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lukas/061023

10-24-2006, 12:34 AM	#255
mrskippy All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,011	So, Kenny Rogers uses an illegal substance. What are they going to do? Force the Tigers to forfeit the ALCS game against Oakland and force that series to play on? Hardly. Force the Tigers to forfeit Game 2 of the World Series? What would that solve? It'd only give the A's reason to ask for a forfeit of ALCS Game 3 and thus throw that series into question. The reality is that there are other examples of cheating taking place that you'll never hear about.

10-24-2006, 01:45 AM	#257
darkhorse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: fort worth, tx Posts: 10,850	If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin. "Cheating is baseball's oldest profession. No other game is so rich in skullduggery, so suited to it or so proud of it."---Thomas Boswell "I've cheated, or someone on my team has cheated, in almost every single game I've been in."---Rogers Hornsby