AI "Bug" that NEEDS to be fixed

[Mattymo]

I'm up 4-1 in the 9th of Game 5 of the ABL Finals, there's a guy on 2nd and one out. My reliever (I'm in GM mode) intentionally walks the hitter, bringing up the tying run!!

This consistently happens, and it's something that would NEVER happen in real baseball, I don't care who's up to the plate. The worst that could happen if you pitch to the guy is a 2 run homer, which you are still winning 4-3. This really needs to be fixed in a 3rd patch, if one comes out.

Most bad AI decisions you can pretend it's a bad GM move (uhh...like the Phillies giving the Yankees Bobby Abreau and Corey Lidle for absolutely nothing). But this is something that doesn't make sense.

[pstrickert]

Have you checked your strategy settings?

[dougaiton]

This is a legacy bug - it's been hanging around since early OOTPs. It would be nice to see it fixed.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Mattymo

This consistently happens

This portion of your statement sways me to believe it's a problem; trusting that this is the case and not your perception that it's consistently.

Beyond that, personally, I wouldn't always be adverse to intentional walks in these situations. For example, power hitter with proven home run record and only one out, followed by a contact groundball hitter: walk the power hitter and look for a double play out of the inning. (Assume Mr. Power is of average speed. Assume Mr. Contact is not a huge HR hitter.)

Other scenarios might prevail as well, and doubtless I occupy a minority philosophy in this situation. However, as I said, anything intentional that is also consistently occurring is an issue.

And legacy bugs should only appear if Markus still envisions something a certain, and apparently, incorrect way.

[Mattymo]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Have you checked your strategy settings?

My manager's setting on Intentional walks is near "never"

[Mattymo]

Originally Posted by endgame

This portion of your statement sways me to believe it's a problem; trusting that this is the case and not your perception that it's consistently.

Beyond that, personally, I wouldn't always be adverse to intentional walks in these situations. For example, power hitter with proven home run record and only one out, followed by a contact groundball hitter: walk the power hitter and look for a double play out of the inning. (Assume Mr. Power is of average speed. Assume Mr. Contact is not a huge HR hitter.)

Other scenarios might prevail as well, and doubtless I occupy a minority philosophy in this situation. However, as I said, anything intentional that is also consistently occurring is an issue.

And legacy bugs should only appear if Markus still envisions something a certain, and apparently, incorrect way.

I disagree, as I'd gladly pitch to David Ortiz with one guy on, up 3, even if my grandma were on deck.

In terms of consistency, I didnt play out/watch many regular season games, but in the 11 games of the playoffs, it happened 3 times...not to mention that even though "favor L/R matchups" was one step away from "always", it seemed to put lefty's in for righty's, and vise-versa about half the time.

[Mattymo]

One question that I DO have is...does the AI know if it's game 7 of the world series? or does it treat every game the same

In game 7, down 5-1 in the 5th, the opposing team put in their mop-up reliever, even though their ace had 3 days rest and could have pitched in relief to keep it close.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Mattymo

I disagree, as I'd gladly pitch to David Ortiz with one guy on, up 3, even if my grandma were on deck.

And you'd then be up 4-3 with only one out, facing at least two more batters, presumably the 5th and 6th roster slots or higher. Unless it's Hoffman or Rivera on the mound it's room for concern, at least to me.

[Mattymo]

Originally Posted by endgame

And you'd then be up 4-3 with only one out, facing at least two more batters, presumably the 5th and 6th roster slots or higher. Unless it's Hoffman or Rivera on the mound it's room for concern, at least to me.

Right, but that's IF they guy hits a home run (which the odds are ALWAYS against). I'd never want to be one pitch away from a tie game if I could avoid it.

[thomamon]

This problem may be closed, as it seems to be more of a personal opinion.

[marc420]

Wonderful example of why you've lost me as a customer.

Customer posts a very legitimate complaint against an AI doing something I've never seen a big-league manager do in 30 years of watching baseball. Which is intentionally walk a player to bring the tying run to the plate. Can't think of ever having seen that.

OOTP employee posts a ridiculous opinion as to why this might make sense (although only to a manager on crack who wants to be fired). Does not cite any real world examples.... apparently just puffs on crack pipe then types.

Another OOTP employee closes the issue because he regards the "on-crack" opinion as valid and thus this is just a "matter of personal opinion."

Oh well, don't know why I even came here. Just bored, and I guess I wanted to know if this game that I was so stupid to buy on pre-order had ever gotten fixed. Then I find garbage like this. Companies that work on the method of "the customer is always wrong" the way you guys do don't get my money ever again.

bye .... customer who'd been buying OOTP since OOTP3 is now leaving the building. Don't bother trying to sucker me into buying OOTP2007.

[molarmite]

Originally Posted by marc420

Wonderful example of why you've lost me as a customer.

Customer posts a very legitimate complaint against an AI doing something I've never seen a big-league manager do in 30 years of watching baseball. Which is intentionally walk a player to bring the tying run to the plate. Can't think of ever having seen that.

OOTP employee posts a ridiculous opinion as to why this might make sense (although only to a manager on who wants to be fired). Does not cite any real world examples.... apparently just puffs on pipe then types.

Another OOTP employee closes the issue because he regards the "on-crack" opinion as valid and thus this is just a "matter of personal opinion."

Oh well, don't know why I even came here. Just bored, and I guess I wanted to know if this game that I was so stupid to buy on pre-order had ever gotten fixed. Then I find garbage like this. Companies that work on the method of "the customer is always wrong" the way you guys do don't get my money ever again.

bye .... customer who'd been buying OOTP since OOTP3 is now leaving the building. Don't bother trying to sucker me into buying OOTP2007.

It's an opinion, there were no OOTP employees in this thread at all, they're all customers. OOTP can't please everyone, if they change this, they might get other people upset that they're not intentionally walking the other team's best hitter. It's impossible to please everyone, this is probably not a bug, but more of an opinionated thought.

[thomamon]

Hi,

Have you really never seen this? I recall one time Barry Bonds was intentionally walked with bases loaded and he was the tying run.

Anyway, I'll bring this back up to the boss' for you, but I don't agree that this never happens when I know I have seen it happen.

TM

Originally Posted by marc420

Wonderful example of why you've lost me as a customer.

Customer posts a very legitimate complaint against an AI doing something I've never seen a big-league manager do in 30 years of watching baseball. Which is intentionally walk a player to bring the tying run to the plate. Can't think of ever having seen that.

OOTP employee posts a ridiculous opinion as to why this might make sense (although only to a manager on crack who wants to be fired). Does not cite any real world examples.... apparently just puffs on crack pipe then types.

Another OOTP employee closes the issue because he regards the "on-crack" opinion as valid and thus this is just a "matter of personal opinion."

Oh well, don't know why I even came here. Just bored, and I guess I wanted to know if this game that I was so stupid to buy on pre-order had ever gotten fixed. Then I find garbage like this. Companies that work on the method of "the customer is always wrong" the way you guys do don't get my money ever again.

bye .... customer who'd been buying OOTP since OOTP3 is now leaving the building. Don't bother trying to sucker me into buying OOTP2007.

[battists]

I'll throw my opinion in here. I'm not an OOTP employee either, but I guess some people may regard me as closer to an OOTP employee than most, but YMMV.

Anyway, I'm sorry to hear you're disappointed in this thread. As molarmite pointed out, none of the responses here were from anyone associated with the product, so please don't let that affect your opinion of the game or the company!

Meanwhile, I do know that I've seen this happen in real life. In fact, I've seen it happen within the past month, as someone put Ryan Howard on intentionally as the tying run in the 9th inning of a game against the Phillies, to pitch to Pat Burrell. (Hey, I'd do it. )

So, I'd be against removing it from the game entirely, but if someone could post a game log or something with a little more information, that would be helpful to bring back to Markus. For example, if you can show me in a game log where it happened, as well as a player report for the player who was walked, it could go a long way to finding a good place to tweak the AI. As Mattymo said, if this is happening regularly, I think it should be brought up to Markus.

Thanks very much,

Steve

[pstrickert]

That Barry Bonds example has to be the exception that proves the rule. He was one of those very rare hitters who forced a manager to make odd managerial decisions. (I emphasize the word "rare".) I can't ever remember seeing a manager IW someone and bring the tying run to the plate. The opposite is true: managers do everything they can to keep the tying run in the on-deck circle.

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by battists

Meanwhile, I do know that I've seen this happen in real life. In fact, I've seen it happen within the past month, as someone put Ryan Howard on intentionally as the tying run in the 9th inning of a game against the Phillies, to pitch to Pat Burrell. (Hey, I'd do it. )

Steve

I checked the PBP for the Phillies games for the past two months. The situation you described never happened. In two different games, Howard was walked with a runner on first, which put the winning run in scoring position. (It happened once in the 9th inning - but the strategy backfired when Jeff Conine followed with a single to tie the game. It also happened during extra innings once. This time, the strategy worked out okay.) That's rather unusual - but it's not what the OP described, nor -- with all due respect (and I mean that sincerely!) -- what you described, Steve.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by Mattymo

Most bad AI decisions you can pretend it's a bad GM move (uhh...like the Phillies giving the Yankees Bobby Abreau and Corey Lidle for absolutely nothing).

Since thread has already gotten sidetracked, I'll take a shot at this. (While I'm here, good luck on your honeymoon, Mattymo.)

Would this be the same Bobby Abreu and Corey Lidle who, upon being jettisoned as excess ballast, the Phillies took off like a balloon and made an actual playoff run, which they certainly weren't doing with those losers aboard? Yeah, super bad move, there. (I shouldn't pick, considering how many of the Mets' moves I've complained about that looked stupid and turned out well.)

[battists]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

I checked the PBP for the Phillies games for the past two months. The situation you described never happened. In two different games, Howard was walked with a runner on first, which put the winning run in scoring position. (It happened once in the 9th inning - but the strategy backfired when Jeff Conine followed with a single to tie the game. It also happened during extra innings once. This time, the strategy worked out okay.) That's rather unusual - but it's not what the OP described, nor -- with all due respect (and I mean that sincerely!) -- what you described, Steve.

Aren't you glad someone with a clearly damaged brain is writing the manual?



*sigggggh*

[zekester91]

Originally Posted by Mattymo

This consistently happens, and it's something that would NEVER happen in real baseball, I don't care who's up to the plate. The worst that could happen if you pitch to the guy is a 2 run homer, which you are still winning 4-3. This really needs to be fixed in a 3rd patch, if one comes out.

Umm, true story, last spring my High school baseball team was in the confrance playoffs, up 4-2 runners on second and third with two out, and the coach called for an intentnal walk to load the bases. His reasoning was that there would be a play at every plate. So to say this would never happen in real baseball has been proven wrong (although does Elk Rapids High really real baseball) The stradagy didn't work ER lost 5-4 on a base clearing double to the gap.

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by battists

Aren't you glad someone with a clearly damaged brain is writing the manual?



*sigggggh*

LOL -- You've done a great job, Steve. OOTP would be much worse off without your efforts.

RE: Howard . . . I noticed that one opposing pitcher this year compared him to Barry Bonds. Howard was on such a tear that managers were afraid to pitch to him.