American League 2006 MVP Poll - Page 2

sixfour210 · 09-30-2006, 05:37 PM

Yeah, I'm wondering why Morneau isn't on the list. I'd go with either him or Dye.

Can't stand this Jeter for MVP talk BS. The only reason why he may have so many "clutch hits" is because he plays for a team that allows him to hit the "clutch hit". Why don't people realize that it takes people to be on base for you to hit them in? If you play for a team with no one on base when you come up, you'll never get that "clutch hit".

To me, picking anyone from the Yankees lineup as MVP is like picking someone from Colorado for MVP. There are exceptions, of course, like A-Rod and Larry Walker who put up video game type numbers, then I'll let it slide.

The REAL MVPs are the guys like Howard and Morneau who do a lot with a little. Take Morneau off of the Twins and they're an average team at best. Take Jeter off the Yanks and they'll still be in the vicinity of making the playoffs.

magnet · 09-30-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twins15

I don't see how that should count against Mauer (or for Morneau). IMO, Mauer has been the better hitter (not as much power, but gets on base a lot more), while playing great defense at the most demanding defensive position on the diamond.

He hasn't gotten on base as much more than Morneau as you'd think. .376 to .429 in OBP. Morneau has 10 more hits (189 to 179), and Mauer only has 26 more BB (53 to 79) while Morneau is slugging at a clip of .560 to Mauer's .505.

MuertoDesagradecido · 09-30-2006, 05:42 PM

So, uh, Jeter can't be MVP because he plays on a good team, while Hafner can't be MVP because he plays on a bad team. Man, anybody who wants to pick up any hardware better seek out a team that's just barely on the cusp.

MuertoDesagradecido · 09-30-2006, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnet

He hasn't gotten on base as much more than Morneau as you'd think. .376 to .429 in OBP. Morneau has 10 more hits (189 to 179), and Mauer only has 26 more BB (53 to 79) while Morneau is slugging at a clip of .560 to Mauer's .505.

.429 is much more than .376.

magnet · 09-30-2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuertoDesagradecido

.429 is much more than .376.

and .560 SL% is much more than .505. 34 HR is much more than 13. 129 RBI is much more than 84.

sixfour210 · 09-30-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuertoDesagradecido

So, uh, Jeter can't be MVP because he plays on a good team, while Hafner can't be MVP because he plays on a bad team. Man, anybody who wants to pick up any hardware better seek out a team that's just barely on the cusp.

I would vote for Hafner in a heartbeat if he stayed healthy the whole way through. He's a lot more valuable to his team than anyone else in the league and it's pretty obvious by the way the Indians have played with him being out.

magnet · 09-30-2006, 05:51 PM

The Mauer/Morneau race is pretty interesting, that's for sure. Mauer has the Win Shares advantage, 29 to 27. Morneau has created 15 more runs, 118 to 103. The "clutch" rating (on HBT) has Morneau at a +4.3 to Mauer's -0.3.

mlyons · 09-30-2006, 06:10 PM

Jeter's right near all those designated hitters, first basemen, and corner outfielders in total offensive production while playing shortstop. You could make the same argument for Joe Mauer, except he just doesn't have anywhere near the playing time the rest of those guys do. If Cleveland were posting a better season, I'd probably go with Sizemore, though.

magnet · 09-30-2006, 06:20 PM

I love how SportsCenter keeps saying the AL Batting Race is between Mauer and Jeter, when Jeter has dropped to third behind Cano, who doesn't even get a mention from ESPN.

Dagrims · 09-30-2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnet

I love how SportsCenter keeps saying the AL Batting Race is between Mauer and Jeter, when Jeter has dropped to third behind Cano, who doesn't even get a mention from ESPN.

Jeter's currently .002 ahead of Cano, and you'll have to factor in an additional 0-10 (or thereabouts) to get Cano to the required 502 plate appearances.

GForce · 09-30-2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagrims

Jeter's currently .002 ahead of Cano, and you'll have to factor in an additional 0-10 (or thereabouts) to get Cano to the required 502 plate appearances.

Nah...he had 474 ABs, 18 BB coming into today. He's 1-4 today. So he needs 6 more PAs with a game remaining.

GH

JDOldSchool · 09-30-2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnet

and .560 SL% is much more than .505. 34 HR is much more than 13. 129 RBI is much more than 84.

The actual difference between .429 and .376 OBP is far greater than .560 and .505 SLG. Simply subtracting the numbers and then comparing isn't the way to do it.

And RBIs = probably the worst way to debate this. About the only thing worse would be comparing length of facial hair or something. RBIs tell as close to nothing as a baseball stat can tell.

Edit: Also, Frank Thomas is a better choice than a good percentage of this list.

Dagrims · 09-30-2006, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GForce

Nah...he had 474 ABs, 18 BB coming into today. He's 1-4 today. So he needs 6 more PAs with a game remaining.

GH

Yes, clearly a case of bad addition on my part. Regardless, Jeter is now .004 ahead of Cano.

Jonzard · 09-30-2006, 08:09 PM

Not including Morneau is pretty bad. Especially with Curtis Granderson on here. I cannot bring myself to vote on this list.

sixfour210 · 09-30-2006, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GForce

Nah...he had 474 ABs, 18 BB coming into today. He's 1-4 today. So he needs 6 more PAs with a game remaining.

GH

You guys forgot about SF, SH and HBP....with those he's already exceeded the minimum PA requirmement.

sixfour210 · 09-30-2006, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonzard

Not including Morneau is pretty bad. Especially with Curtis Granderson on here. I cannot bring myself to vote on this list.

I'm with Jonzard...I hadn't even realized Granderson was picked over Morneau. Whoever started this thread should appoint someone else for the 2007 awards.

Long_Long_Name · 09-30-2006, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnet

Damn straight! I still vote him Comebacker of the year.

Where did he come back from? He has a .921 OPS this year, and he's never had anything lower than .900 in the past 4 seasons. So, if anything, his comeback was either in 2002 or 2003. Well, okay, he had a bad OBP last year, real bad, but his power numbers were fantastic - his best since 2000.

disposableheros · 09-30-2006, 09:59 PM

if you have 3 guys from the same team on the ballot, does that mean none of them individually can be the most valuable player in the league?

i mean, if its so close that you cant decide which of the 3 was the most valuable to his team to put him on the ballot, how can any 1 of them be the most valuable player in the league?

if any 1 of them is good enough for your MVP vote, shouldnt you vote for all of them as co-MVPs?

these are just questions to make you think and are not indicative of my stance one way or the other

magnet · 09-30-2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

Where did he come back from? He has a .921 OPS this year, and he's never had anything lower than .900 in the past 4 seasons. So, if anything, his comeback was either in 2002 or 2003. Well, okay, he had a bad OBP last year, real bad, but his power numbers were fantastic - his best since 2000.

This is a joke post, right? He's been hurt the last two years and didn't even get 500 AB COMBINED for those 2 years. Whatever you are smoking, you should be sharing.

mikev · 09-30-2006, 11:33 PM

Frank Thomas gets my homer vote. Without him the A's are in 3rd place in the West.

View Poll Results: Who da man?
Miguel Tejada	0	0%
David Ortiz	7	11.86%
Jonathan Papelbon	0	0%
Jermaine Dye	2	3.39%
Grady Sizemore	2	3.39%
Travis Hafner	7	11.86%
Curtis Granderson	1	1.69%
Francisco Rodriguez	0	0%
Johan Santana	5	8.47%
Joe Mauer	15	25.42%
Derek Jeter	18	30.51%
Nick Swisher	1	1.69%
Ichiro Suzuki	0	0%
Michael Young	0	0%
Roy Halladay	1	1.69%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

09-30-2006, 05:37 PM	#21
sixfour210 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,227	Yeah, I'm wondering why Morneau isn't on the list. I'd go with either him or Dye. Can't stand this Jeter for MVP talk BS. The only reason why he may have so many "clutch hits" is because he plays for a team that allows him to hit the "clutch hit". Why don't people realize that it takes people to be on base for you to hit them in? If you play for a team with no one on base when you come up, you'll never get that "clutch hit". To me, picking anyone from the Yankees lineup as MVP is like picking someone from Colorado for MVP. There are exceptions, of course, like A-Rod and Larry Walker who put up video game type numbers, then I'll let it slide. The REAL MVPs are the guys like Howard and Morneau who do a lot with a little. Take Morneau off of the Twins and they're an average team at best. Take Jeter off the Yanks and they'll still be in the vicinity of making the playoffs. __________________

09-30-2006, 06:10 PM	#28
mlyons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,725	Jeter's right near all those designated hitters, first basemen, and corner outfielders in total offensive production while playing shortstop. You could make the same argument for Joe Mauer, except he just doesn't have anywhere near the playing time the rest of those guys do. If Cleveland were posting a better season, I'd probably go with Sizemore, though. __________________ Things can always be worse.

09-30-2006, 08:09 PM	#34
Jonzard Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,647	Not including Morneau is pretty bad. Especially with Curtis Granderson on here. I cannot bring myself to vote on this list. __________________ For a scientist must indeed be freely imaginative and yet skeptical, creative and yet a critic. There is a sense in which he must be free, but another in which his thought must be very precisely regimented; there is poetry in science, but also a lot of bookkeeping. — Sir Peter B. Medawar FTB Last edited by Jonzard; 09-30-2006 at 08:23 PM.

09-30-2006, 09:59 PM	#38
disposableheros Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,332	if you have 3 guys from the same team on the ballot, does that mean none of them individually can be the most valuable player in the league? i mean, if its so close that you cant decide which of the 3 was the most valuable to his team to put him on the ballot, how can any 1 of them be the most valuable player in the league? if any 1 of them is good enough for your MVP vote, shouldnt you vote for all of them as co-MVPs? these are just questions to make you think and are not indicative of my stance one way or the other __________________ 2 Wild Cards, 11 Division Champs, 4 League Champs, 3 World Champs, and 3 Best GM awards Baseball Maelstrom - New York Mets - 180-149 .547 Corporate League Baseball - Coke Buzz - 889-649 .578 Western Hemisphere Baseball League - Santiago Saints - 672-793 .459 Record - 2428-2271 .517

09-30-2006, 05:42 PM	#23
MuertoDesagradecido Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Saint Francisco Posts: 436 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	So, uh, Jeter can't be MVP because he plays on a good team, while Hafner can't be MVP because he plays on a bad team. Man, anybody who wants to pick up any hardware better seek out a team that's just barely on the cusp.

09-30-2006, 05:51 PM	#27
magnet Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,029	The Mauer/Morneau race is pretty interesting, that's for sure. Mauer has the Win Shares advantage, 29 to 27. Morneau has created 15 more runs, 118 to 103. The "clutch" rating (on HBT) has Morneau at a +4.3 to Mauer's -0.3.

09-30-2006, 06:20 PM	#29
magnet Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,029	I love how SportsCenter keeps saying the AL Batting Race is between Mauer and Jeter, when Jeter has dropped to third behind Cano, who doesn't even get a mention from ESPN.

09-30-2006, 11:33 PM	#40
mikev Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 4,014	Frank Thomas gets my homer vote. Without him the A's are in 3rd place in the West. __________________ Global Unified Baseball Association - Vice Commish and Oakland Oaks GM