Fans are just stupid.

imation · 08-30-2006, 03:01 PM

Green & Gold Heart · 08-30-2006, 03:25 PM

Damn. It's Tek, and even I know that.

eriqjaffe · 08-30-2006, 03:29 PM

I think the most obvious answer is Carney Lansford.

Astros33Resurrected · 08-30-2006, 03:31 PM

pedro

mlyons · 08-30-2006, 03:33 PM

I don't get it. Why would they miss Ortiz or Ramirez? They're both playing right now.

magnet · 08-30-2006, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyons

I don't get it. Why would they miss Ortiz or Ramirez? They're both playing right now.

When did Ortiz clear doctors?

mlyons · 08-30-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnet

When did Ortiz clear doctors?

Whoops. My mistake. I remembered he had been hospitalized last week and came back. I didn't realize they had shut him and Ramirez down again. Never mind.

Russ · 08-30-2006, 04:20 PM

If you think it's Varitek, you are falling dangerously close to talking about "intangibles".

Erik W. · 08-30-2006, 04:26 PM

I don't think it's so clearcut as to make the fans stupid.

Yeah, the answer is Varitek at this moment because he's been out longer, and thus has contributed much more to the decline of the Sox. But if they were out equal time, it's not a stretch to say that they'd miss their biggest bat more than their catcher.

Green & Gold Heart · 08-30-2006, 04:32 PM

I say it's Varitek because their pitching has been worse since he's been out, and Manny and Ortiz played in the 5-gamer against the Yankees and they still got their asses handed to them. Not concrete reasons, I know, but it just seems apparent to me that their collapse began when Varitek went down.

Erik W. · 08-30-2006, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green & Gold Heart

I say it's Varitek because their pitching has been worse since he's been out, and Manny and Ortiz played in the 5-gamer against the Yankees and they still got their asses handed to them. Not concrete reasons, I know, but it just seems apparent to me that their collapse began when Varitek went down.

Oh, I definately see your reasoning, and don't necessarily disagree. I just don't think it's so clearcut that the fans are stupid, that's all.

MuertoDesagradecido · 08-30-2006, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azamien

But if they were out equal time, it's not a stretch to say that they'd miss their biggest bat more than their catcher.

I think the problem is that their biggest bat has only 11% of the vote.

Erik W. · 08-30-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuertoDesagradecido

I think the problem is that their biggest bat has only 11% of the vote.

Depends how you look at that. I think Ortiz is their big bat (more HR, RBI) while Manny is their best hitter (AVG, OBP, with excellent power thrown in). Semantics, maybe, but that's the way I look at it.

MuertoDesagradecido · 08-30-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azamien

Depends how you look at that. I think Ortiz is their big bat (more HR, RBI) while Manny is their best hitter (AVG, OBP, with excellent power thrown in). Semantics, maybe, but that's the way I look at it.

Manny EQA: .345
Ortiz EQA: .329
Manny VORP: 62.6
Ortiz VORP: 60.9

Both of Manny's totals are second best in the AL behind Travis Hafner. Ortiz is a very good hitter but Manny has still been significantly better this season.

Coates · 08-30-2006, 06:48 PM

Funny, maybe the average New England sports fan isn't as stupid as I once thought since they did vote for 'Tek

.

My reasoning for Varitek is because of the pitch selection/game preparations he can no longer do. I don't know if many people know it outside of the area, but Varitek actually did most of the preparations with coaches prior to each game and has a vast knowledge of a lot of hitters weaknesses/strengths/etc.

Russ · 08-30-2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coates

My reasoning for Varitek is because of the pitch selection/game preparations he can no longer do. I don't know if many people know it outside of the area, but Varitek actually did most of the preparations with coaches prior to each game and has a vast knowledge of a lot of hitters weaknesses/strengths/etc.

I just can't buy into this.

Coates · 08-30-2006, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I just can't buy into this.

Watch a game and you'll buy into it. I can't recall the pitcher who did it recently, but against the Angels he through a big slow sweeping curve to Garrett Anderson. It was the first pitch Anderson had seen vs. the pitcher. Mirabelli then called the same exact pitch on the next pitch, and Anderson obviously had a good read on it because it was all he had seen, stroking a go ahead single into right field.

Russ · 08-30-2006, 06:54 PM

Pitchers sit in the same meetings as the catchers and coaches. It's not like they're robots out there and they just throw whatever the catchers throw down. Plus, Varitek is still in those meetings despite being injured and telling these guys how to pitch them. Even if it's true that Varitek calls the game autonomously, there's no way that Mirabelli is going to forget how to pitcha guy in that 20 foot walk out to home plate after a coach and Varitek just told him. Sometimes it's just execution.

P.s. I watch some games sometimes.

Astros33Resurrected · 08-30-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coates

Watch a game and you'll buy into it. I can't recall the pitcher who did it recently, but against the Angels he through a big slow sweeping curve to Garrett Anderson. It was the first pitch Anderson had seen vs. the pitcher. Mirabelli then called the same exact pitch on the next pitch, and Anderson obviously had a good read on it because it was all he had seen, stroking a go ahead single into right field.

good point

Coates · 08-30-2006, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Pitchers sit in the same meetings as the catchers and coaches. It's not like they're robots out there and they just throw whatever the catchers throw down. Plus, Varitek is still in those meetings despite being injured and telling these guys how to pitch them. Even if it's true that Varitek calls the game autonomously, there's no way that Mirabelli is going to forget how to pitcha guy in that 20 foot walk out to home plate after a coach and Varitek just told him. Sometimes it's just execution.

P.s. I watch some games sometimes.

If you don't believe different catchers have different talents/abilities when it comes to game planning, then what seperates Varitek from Mirabelli to begin with? There's a reason Varitek has the "C" on his name, and a reason why many people consider him the most valuable player in Boston.

You can't expect someone to "sit in" on scouting report talks, and then transfer everything he studied into the game and execute it flawlessly. You need real time practice with every single pitcher, finding out his tendancies, etc., which is something Mirabelli has never had the opportunity to do on a daily basis.

08-30-2006, 03:01 PM	#1
imation Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 307	Fans are just stupid. __________________

08-30-2006, 03:29 PM	#3
eriqjaffe Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: Under The Christmas Fish Posts: 7,769	I think the most obvious answer is Carney Lansford. __________________

08-30-2006, 03:33 PM	#5
mlyons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,725	I don't get it. Why would they miss Ortiz or Ramirez? They're both playing right now. __________________ Things can always be worse.

08-30-2006, 04:20 PM	#8
Russ All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Essex HON! Posts: 1,923 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	If you think it's Varitek, you are falling dangerously close to talking about "intangibles". __________________ If you don't love Russ, you don't love America. This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

08-30-2006, 04:26 PM	#9
Erik W. Global Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rivière-du-Loup, Qc Posts: 4,615	I don't think it's so clearcut as to make the fans stupid. Yeah, the answer is Varitek at this moment because he's been out longer, and thus has contributed much more to the decline of the Sox. But if they were out equal time, it's not a stretch to say that they'd miss their biggest bat more than their catcher. __________________ Free agent baseball fan. Let's go (insert team name here)!

08-30-2006, 03:25 PM	#2
Green & Gold Heart Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 5,242	Damn. It's Tek, and even I know that.

08-30-2006, 03:31 PM	#4
Astros33Resurrected Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lufkin, TX Posts: 2,213	pedro

08-30-2006, 04:32 PM	#10
Green & Gold Heart Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 5,242	I say it's Varitek because their pitching has been worse since he's been out, and Manny and Ortiz played in the 5-gamer against the Yankees and they still got their asses handed to them. Not concrete reasons, I know, but it just seems apparent to me that their collapse began when Varitek went down.

08-30-2006, 06:48 PM	#15
Coates Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 80	Funny, maybe the average New England sports fan isn't as stupid as I once thought since they did vote for 'Tek . My reasoning for Varitek is because of the pitch selection/game preparations he can no longer do. I don't know if many people know it outside of the area, but Varitek actually did most of the preparations with coaches prior to each game and has a vast knowledge of a lot of hitters weaknesses/strengths/etc.

08-30-2006, 06:54 PM	#18
Russ All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Essex HON! Posts: 1,923 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Pitchers sit in the same meetings as the catchers and coaches. It's not like they're robots out there and they just throw whatever the catchers throw down. Plus, Varitek is still in those meetings despite being injured and telling these guys how to pitch them. Even if it's true that Varitek calls the game autonomously, there's no way that Mirabelli is going to forget how to pitcha guy in that 20 foot walk out to home plate after a coach and Varitek just told him. Sometimes it's just execution. P.s. I watch some games sometimes. __________________ If you don't love Russ, you don't love America. This post brought to you by Carl's Jr. Last edited by Russ; 08-30-2006 at 06:55 PM.