Dunn leading off?

Rowleyball · 02-04-2003, 11:42 PM

What do you guys think of this?

holyroller · 02-04-2003, 11:46 PM

I think it is a good idea. He has great OBP.

Jason Moyer · 02-05-2003, 12:56 AM

High OBP and so-so power. Sounds like a leadoff guy to me.

Reds fans should be thankful they don't have Bowa managing, he'd probably stick Dunn in the 5 hole.

Jason

holyroller · 02-05-2003, 02:07 AM

So-so power? Last year, sure. If you look at his minor league and rookie stats though you see prodigious power potential. Still young too. I think he is going to be an absolute monster very shortly.

Rowleyball · 02-05-2003, 02:41 AM

For now, batting Dunn leadoff will probably work, but they'll need to get someone to take his place eventually. Dunn definitely should end up as a middle-of-the-lineup guy, probably batting 3rd with his high OBP.

I think in situations like these it is ok to bat a guy like this leadoff, but to get the most out of him he should be driving in guys ahead of him (given that the team has decent, speedy guys with good OBP's ahead of him in the order).

Also, the article brings up Dunn's high strikeout rate. Do you guys think this might affect his performance as a leadoff hitter, if that's where he ends up?

JAttractive · 02-05-2003, 04:39 AM

"But Dunn also amassed a club-record 170 strikeouts. Opening the game with one out and nobody on base is hardly enviable for any team's offense."

Ok here is where I stopped reading.... You can't deny his OBP of .400 which means he gets on base 2 out of 5 times on average. What the hell does it matter if he strikes out or he grounds/pops out to make the out the other 3 out of 5? When no one is on base it doesn't matter how you got out!

I am not saying strike outs are equal to other outs on all accounts but to open the game they are! If no one is on base it doesn't matter how you got you out. Hell getting out on a strike out is probably better because you at least drew a minimum 3 pitches vs. a guy who perhaps swung and popped out on the first pitch. Give me guys who will draw pitches and then feast on the weak bullpens out there. That quote just makes no sense to me because it focuses on his first at bat.

holyroller · 02-05-2003, 05:19 AM

In a lot of circumstances, strikeouts are preferable to other outs. For example, slow runner on first, slow runner at the plate. Which would you prefer, a groundball to third or a strikeout?

Old Man · 02-05-2003, 09:54 AM

This reminds me on the years the Mets used Tommy Agee in the lead off spot. A lead off hitter with the best power on the team and good OBP. Dunn is also one of the few guys on the Cincy team with some speed too. The only other guy on the team with a decent OBP is Sean Casey, but he really lacks any speed to leadoff. I thought they were trying to get Taylor in the lead off role but he can't get on base.
Dunn is a good choice on this club at the moment, but as he develops more the 3rd hole should be his home. I hope this does not hurt his development by having him lead off or alter his swing in anyway.

OldGiants · 02-05-2003, 12:17 PM

At 6' 6" he might become the tallest, regular lead-off hitter of all time, if he can keep the job. I can't think of anyone as tall ever leading-off for long. Winfield may have done it, now and then, in a pulled-out-of-a-hat lineup kind of way.

Any other candidates?

Whitey · 02-05-2003, 12:44 PM

I still like to see my best hitters getting the most ab's also. Batting leadoff is going to get that player to the plate quite a few more times during the year. I guess the Giants used this theory a bit with Bobby Bonds when he was bascially the only hitter they had.

majormet · 02-05-2003, 02:19 PM

I am so against power hitters leading off and I do think Dunn is a true power hitter, he will have to bat behind the pitcher and he will hit a lot of homers with no one on base, this is like the late 70's Cubs using Rick Monday as a leadoff hitter when you had Don Kessinger and the pitcher in front of him most of the time.

AngelinOF · 02-05-2003, 04:35 PM

Oh great I can see Bob Boone's strategy now:
Top of the 1st inning Dunn draws a walk and Boone orders his #2 hitter to sac bunt in the first inning, Griffey strikes out and his boy pops out.
If Dunn stays at the leadoff spot all year long, Cincinnati will probably shatter the team sacrifice bunt record. As you might of guessed I'm not a big fan of Boone's over-manage every tiny bit of detail style.

scoobz0202 · 02-06-2003, 04:21 PM

Happy to read this article, glad they do something with him and not trade his *** for some veteran pitcher past his prime. Been a die hard Red's fan for all my life, and am pissed that I haven't heard anything about the aquiring of ANYBODY good.... they need pitching... bad. When they trade Juan Encarnacion to Florida, was hoping the pitcher we got in return would do something because Juan was doing great in Cincy, but no.

caleb1740 · 02-09-2003, 10:33 PM

I think that its ok during spring training, but I really think you need this guy 3,4,5 in your order. If you put a 30 hr guy at the top of your order that says to me that there is NOTHING else, and the team is in pretty bad shape. I think by putting him at lead-off you are going to lose a lot of production.

02-04-2003, 11:42 PM	#1
Rowleyball Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 265	Dunn leading off? What do you guys think of this?

02-05-2003, 12:56 AM	#3
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,074	High OBP and so-so power. Sounds like a leadoff guy to me. Reds fans should be thankful they don't have Bowa managing, he'd probably stick Dunn in the 5 hole. Jason __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

02-05-2003, 02:07 AM	#4
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	So-so power? Last year, sure. If you look at his minor league and rookie stats though you see prodigious power potential. Still young too. I think he is going to be an absolute monster very shortly. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

02-05-2003, 04:39 AM	#6
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,135	"But Dunn also amassed a club-record 170 strikeouts. Opening the game with one out and nobody on base is hardly enviable for any team's offense." Ok here is where I stopped reading.... You can't deny his OBP of .400 which means he gets on base 2 out of 5 times on average. What the hell does it matter if he strikes out or he grounds/pops out to make the out the other 3 out of 5? When no one is on base it doesn't matter how you got out! I am not saying strike outs are equal to other outs on all accounts but to open the game they are! If no one is on base it doesn't matter how you got you out. Hell getting out on a strike out is probably better because you at least drew a minimum 3 pitches vs. a guy who perhaps swung and popped out on the first pitch. Give me guys who will draw pitches and then feast on the weak bullpens out there. That quote just makes no sense to me because it focuses on his first at bat. Last edited by JAttractive; 02-05-2003 at 04:42 AM.

02-05-2003, 05:19 AM	#7
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	In a lot of circumstances, strikeouts are preferable to other outs. For example, slow runner on first, slow runner at the plate. Which would you prefer, a groundball to third or a strikeout? __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

02-04-2003, 11:46 PM	#2
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	I think it is a good idea. He has great OBP. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

02-05-2003, 02:41 AM	#5
Rowleyball Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 265	For now, batting Dunn leadoff will probably work, but they'll need to get someone to take his place eventually. Dunn definitely should end up as a middle-of-the-lineup guy, probably batting 3rd with his high OBP. I think in situations like these it is ok to bat a guy like this leadoff, but to get the most out of him he should be driving in guys ahead of him (given that the team has decent, speedy guys with good OBP's ahead of him in the order). Also, the article brings up Dunn's high strikeout rate. Do you guys think this might affect his performance as a leadoff hitter, if that's where he ends up?

02-05-2003, 09:54 AM	#8
Old Man Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 464	This reminds me on the years the Mets used Tommy Agee in the lead off spot. A lead off hitter with the best power on the team and good OBP. Dunn is also one of the few guys on the Cincy team with some speed too. The only other guy on the team with a decent OBP is Sean Casey, but he really lacks any speed to leadoff. I thought they were trying to get Taylor in the lead off role but he can't get on base. Dunn is a good choice on this club at the moment, but as he develops more the 3rd hole should be his home. I hope this does not hurt his development by having him lead off or alter his swing in anyway. __________________ Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983 "All the fat guys watch me and say to their wives, 'See, there's a fat guy doing okay. Bring me another beer.'" -Mickey Lolich

02-05-2003, 12:17 PM	#9
OldGiants Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 211	At 6' 6" he might become the tallest, regular lead-off hitter of all time, if he can keep the job. I can't think of anyone as tall ever leading-off for long. Winfield may have done it, now and then, in a pulled-out-of-a-hat lineup kind of way. Any other candidates?

02-05-2003, 12:44 PM	#10
Whitey Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 346	I still like to see my best hitters getting the most ab's also. Batting leadoff is going to get that player to the plate quite a few more times during the year. I guess the Giants used this theory a bit with Bobby Bonds when he was bascially the only hitter they had. __________________ "Thanks for your time this time, until next time, so long." -The Late Great Jack Buck

02-05-2003, 02:19 PM	#11
majormet Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,536	I am so against power hitters leading off and I do think Dunn is a true power hitter, he will have to bat behind the pitcher and he will hit a lot of homers with no one on base, this is like the late 70's Cubs using Rick Monday as a leadoff hitter when you had Don Kessinger and the pitcher in front of him most of the time.

02-05-2003, 04:35 PM	#12
AngelinOF All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,353	Oh great I can see Bob Boone's strategy now: Top of the 1st inning Dunn draws a walk and Boone orders his #2 hitter to sac bunt in the first inning, Griffey strikes out and his boy pops out. If Dunn stays at the leadoff spot all year long, Cincinnati will probably shatter the team sacrifice bunt record. As you might of guessed I'm not a big fan of Boone's over-manage every tiny bit of detail style.

02-06-2003, 04:21 PM	#13
scoobz0202 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Celina, Ohio Posts: 969	Happy to read this article, glad they do something with him and not trade his *** for some veteran pitcher past his prime. Been a die hard Red's fan for all my life, and am pissed that I haven't heard anything about the aquiring of ANYBODY good.... they need pitching... bad. When they trade Juan Encarnacion to Florida, was hoping the pitcher we got in return would do something because Juan was doing great in Cincy, but no.

02-09-2003, 10:33 PM	#14
caleb1740 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 57	I think that its ok during spring training, but I really think you need this guy 3,4,5 in your order. If you put a 30 hr guy at the top of your order that says to me that there is NOTHING else, and the team is in pretty bad shape. I think by putting him at lead-off you are going to lose a lot of production. __________________ Willie Dean - 17.7ppg, 5.2rb, 2.5as, 1.7st 1st team all Big-10