One Moderator's Warning

[Carplos]

Well, the reason for the censorship is because they think you should be able to read the board with a/your child. Even ignoring the fact that children say and hear much worse in the schoolyard than they'll ever read here with even lax censorship, there's a reason they ask if you're thirteen or older when signings up for message boards these days. Although the latter is only an American requirement, I think.

I don't really mind it, especially since they removed the annoying asteriks that didn't really work decently.

[Dr. Walter Doodah]

Originally Posted by Carplos

Well, the reason for the censorship is because they think you should be able to read the board with a/your child. Even ignoring the fact that children say and hear much worse in the schoolyard than they'll ever read here with even lax censorship

Yep, and that's pretty much my point. In this day and age you're only fooling yourself if you think a 13 yo hasn't ever seen/heard these words. You're not protecting anyone from anything, all you're doing is annoying people by being far stricter than the accepted norm, which I feel that prime-time network television represents rather well. After all, 13 year-olds watch prime-time network television, where they do say "hell" and "ass" and "bitch".

Of course the decision is not mine, but I just can't understand why this place has to be so much cleaner than the norm. Why place that burden on us to adjust our vocabularies while we're here? What is gained? It's a sports forum, not a church forum.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

And I have caught you making false statements on this board before and pointed it out (PureSim has extremely limited setup options, yeah, right).

Uh, it does when it comes to league setups in comparison to OOTP. By your own count, PS has some twenty-five pre-stored league alignments. OOTP has... well, almost no limit on what you can set up. Not only that, but you can shift teams around afterwards to your heart's content.

So, yeah, when comparing the two products, PS does have extremely limited league setup options. So score one point for OOTP. But PS has affinity mode, so score one point for PS. Rinse and repeat.

P.S. - Hi Mal!

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by andymac

As far as perspective, I do understand and see others' points of view but what I try to do is bring a bit of developer perspective to the people requesting features.

You may have the best of intentions, but this is perhaps the single most irritating thing for the rest of us. We want to hear what Markus has to say from the developer's perspective and not what anyone else says.

If someone makes a request and then we end up with a dozen messages arguing about whether or not it's feasible based on someone's opinion, then Markus is never going to see the suggestion. Those that are making the requests are going to get angry and upset in a hurry, because it feels to them like they're being blockaded for no good reason. They're getting discouraging opinions rather than answers.

Even another software developer has no idea what Markus is willing and able to do. He is the only person qualified to speak on his own behalf, and anyone else trying to do it is only going to infuriate people on these forums.

No, Markus cannot respond to every request and suggestion individually, but it is better for there to be no response than a totally useless debate that never represents what Markus happens to think about the issue.

So please just let people make their suggestions or criticisms without trying to offer the developer's perspective or opinions on how feasible it might be. I assure you that this is only going to cause a lot of frustration for people, because I've experienced it myself. Only Markus can tell us how feasible these changes are, so either let him tell us or let him keep silent about it.

[rwd59]

It is sad what has happened around here. There are waaaaayyy to many people who come around here with their finger on the trigger ready to jump at anyone who posts anything even slightly against their viewpoint of the game. There is very little that is even posted around here any more that is about the game itself. Everything, including this thread breaks down into sides. So sad. Some people could defininately use a lesson in tact. Others need lessons in not trying to tell others what they should or should not like or think. Alot of good people around here, unfortunately there are alot of instigaters aroud as well. Battists, if you plan on doing what you have said, I'm afraid you will be very busy around here. There have already been a couple of posts in this very thread that deserve warnings if you are going to take this route.

[rwd59]

Originally Posted by deadringer

No offense andymac but this is exactly what I'm talking about. You're picking on a guy and calling him out when he hasn't said a word in this thread. Now, whether the Wolf's posts or behavior are appropriate or not depends greatly on your perspective but if he'd come in and said a similiar thing about you before you'd stepped into the thread the war would be on.

It's not a question of who's wrong or who's right, it's about who's stirring the pot and who's provoking arguments instead of discussions. I don't care who you had made that statement about, it can only bring about an argument.

Agreed.

[battists]

There's a difference between a double-standard and spot-checking of compliance with site rules, or specifically looking at threads when our attention is called to them.

Similarly, just because people curse on TV now doesn't mean that we (or I) think it makes this site a friendly place to be. I'm not asking that this become the PMRC of web forums, but Walter, I cannot even believe that you're suggesting that "adjusting your vocabulary" is a "burden."

Anyway, I remain open to ideas. Perhaps bringing attention to the subject alone will be enough to help people understand we don't want this to be like the drunken 700-level seats of an Eagles' game.

[Crazy Edna]

in before lock

[Dr. Walter Doodah]

Originally Posted by battists

Similarly, just because people curse on TV now doesn't mean that we (or I) think it makes this site a friendly place to be. I'm not asking that this become the PMRC of web forums, but Walter, I cannot even believe that you're suggesting that "adjusting your vocabulary" is a "burden."

Sorry, I wasn't clear there. What I meant is that posters who are otherwise well-meaning and genuinely want to post about this game may ultimately get banned for letting some of these words slip out now and then. Remember, all it takes is four times...over the span of years. So you're banning these people and for what? What is gained? Why is this forum better with a cleaner vocabulary and more customers banned and unable to post than a regular "prime-time network television" vocab and these customers able to post?

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

If someone makes a request and then we end up with a dozen messages arguing about whether or not it's feasible based on someone's opinion, then Markus is never going to see the suggestion.

Not necessarily. If you make it in one of the dedicated suggestion threads now available, it'll definitely be seen.

If it's in some other thread, there's still a good chance it might be seen. This is especially true if someone who's involved in beta testing likes the idea and brings it up behind-the-scenes.

[blgoblue2]

Originally Posted by Dr. Walter Doodah

Sorry, I wasn't clear there. What I meant is that posters who are otherwise well-meaning and genuinely want to post about this game may ultimately get banned for letting some of these words slip out now and then. Remember, all it takes is four times...over the span of years. So you're banning these people and for what? What is gained? Why is this forum better with a cleaner vocabulary and more customers banned and unable to post than a regular "prime-time network television" vocab and these customers able to post?

<<<<<< example

[Zeyes]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

You may have the best of intentions, but this is perhaps the single most irritating thing for the rest of us. We want to hear what Markus has to say from the developer's perspective and not what anyone else says.

Perhaps SI should institute a weekly newsletter, then. Seriously, it's this kind of attitude that gets you and some others labelled as "demanding".

Surely you've noticed by now that Markus only very rarely comments on the feasibility of any features while he's busy coding. If you'd like an echo chamber where you, The Wolf and a handful of others can go around "suggesting" the same features ad nauseam without any pesky "unofficial" comments (and without official comments most of the time, either, obviously), perhaps this forum isn't your kinda place.

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

No, Markus cannot respond to every request and suggestion individually, but it is better for there to be no response than a totally useless debate that never represents what Markus happens to think about the issue.

I'm sure Markus can be reached by email if you prefer that there be no discussion about your ideas.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

By your own count, PS has some twenty-five pre-stored league alignments.

Twenty-five is not extremely limited. And he did not qualify it.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Twenty-five is not extremely limited. And he did not qualify it.

Depends on who you ask I suppose.

[andymac]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

You may have the best of intentions, but this is perhaps the single most irritating thing for the rest of us. We want to hear what Markus has to say from the developer's perspective and not what anyone else says.

If someone makes a request and then we end up with a dozen messages arguing about whether or not it's feasible based on someone's opinion, then Markus is never going to see the suggestion. Those that are making the requests are going to get angry and upset in a hurry, because it feels to them like they're being blockaded for no good reason. They're getting discouraging opinions rather than answers.

Even another software developer has no idea what Markus is willing and able to do. He is the only person qualified to speak on his own behalf, and anyone else trying to do it is only going to infuriate people on these forums.

No, Markus cannot respond to every request and suggestion individually, but it is better for there to be no response than a totally useless debate that never represents what Markus happens to think about the issue.

So please just let people make their suggestions or criticisms without trying to offer the developer's perspective or opinions on how feasible it might be. I assure you that this is only going to cause a lot of frustration for people, because I've experienced it myself. Only Markus can tell us how feasible these changes are, so either let him tell us or let him keep silent about it.

There are threads for that in the suggestion forum. All of those things are suggested there will be reviewed and prioritized. That is why the Suggestion forum is different than the Discussion forum. If you post a suggestion in the discussion forum you have to accept that it will be discussed.

[andymac]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Twenty-five is not extremely limited. And he did not qualify it.

It was most definitely qualified as it was mentioned in the same post in which I was comparing the likely difficulties of coding expansion for OOTP compared to PureSim.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ed#post1833355

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by andymac

It was most definitely qualified as it was mentioned in the same post in which I was comparing the likely difficulties of coding expansion for OOTP compared to PureSim.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ed#post1833355

False.

"Puresim has an expansion feature that was able to implemented quickly because the league setup options for that game are extremely limited."

There's no "compared to" anywhere in that sentence. That's a standalone absolute statement. And it's false.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

Depends on who you ask I suppose.

You think 4 different modes and 25 different league setups are somehow "extremely limited"? Tell me you're kidding.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

You think 4 different modes and 25 different league setups are somehow "extremely limited"? Tell me you're kidding.

If it limits me, then yes I do.

So I guess I'm not kidding

[Carplos]

You may have the best of intentions, but this is perhaps the single most irritating thing for the rest of us. We want to hear what Markus has to say from the developer's perspective and not what anyone else says.

Then PM or email Markus, don't post them on a public discussion forum.

If someone makes a request and then we end up with a dozen messages arguing about whether or not it's feasible based on someone's opinion, then Markus is never going to see the suggestion. Those that are making the requests are going to get angry and upset in a hurry, because it feels to them like they're being blockaded for no good reason. They're getting discouraging opinions rather than answers.

This is complete garbage. There are other people besides Markus that collect suggestions and pass them on.

So please just let people make their suggestions or criticisms without trying to offer the developer's perspective or opinions on how feasible it might be. I assure you that this is only going to cause a lot of frustration for people, because I've experienced it myself. Only Markus can tell us how feasible these changes are, so either let him tell us or let him keep silent about it.

You keep going on about how only Markus can tell us how feasible something is, yet all your ideas seem to start out about how "simple" it is.