Wierdest career ever?

ej66 · 02-05-2003, 12:38 PM

I just happened to notice a player in my league with an amazingly strange career.

The player was Dusty Bergman. He started his career at the age of 27 with Anaheim. He was named to the 2005 All Star team then dealt to the Mets at the trading deadline. He ended the season 9-13 with a 3.92 ERA, pitching in 216 innings with only 146 hits allowed. His big problem was walks, he allowed 93 BB while only striking out 54.

At age 28, he 's still with the Mets. This season, he goes 17-11 with a 3.11 ERA in 263 innings. Once again, he's tough to get a hit off, allowing only 125 this season. But he's also allowing tons of walks, 113 this season with only 66 k's.

In 2007, Dusty finally becomes a star. He goes 19-4 with a record 1.10 ERA. He completes 17 of his 30 starts with 7 shutouts and *6* no hitters (yes, that's right....he had 6 no hitters during the season, 3 in June, and 1 in July, Aug, and Sept). He only gives up 38 hits in 253 innings. Again, he gives up over 100 walks in a season with only 63 k's. He makes the All Star team and is named the 2007 Cy Young winner.

I run thru the pre-season part of the 2008 season. I'm looking thru the Mets roster to find him and he's gone from the starting rotation. No mention of him signing with another team and no trades. I check the Mets minor league roster and he's sitting on the Single A roster, with all of his stats bottomed out (except that he was still a 10 in avoiding doubles). He goes from being the best pitcher in the league to nothing in one offseason.

BTW, 27 of the 38 hits he gave up in 2007 were home runs.

Stealth · 02-05-2003, 12:46 PM

WHAT? What in the world happened to him?

Something like this happened to Mark Mulder in my solo league. He pitched very well in the 2003 season going 12-5 with a 3.13 era before getting a season ending injury. I can't recall what the injury was, but it dealt with the arm. Anyway, the next season all his ratings were down around 0 to 2. Throughout the next five years he stayed in the A's minor league system working his way back to having ratings between 1-3. Since his injury he has appeared in a few games as a pro with an ERA over 9. Pretty depressing if ya ask me.

ctorg · 02-05-2003, 01:14 PM

I've had those things happen. Gotta love the randomness in the game. It makes things more interesting. But that guy Bergman really did have a strange career, with that incredible H/IP ratio in his last season.

rogmax11 · 02-05-2003, 01:27 PM

If something like this happened in my league I would be enormously pissed. It's bad enough to have stat deviations of the 263 IP/ 125 HA variety, but to follow that up with crap like 38 hits, 6 no-hitters, sub-zero era....

What is the point of a simulation engine that defies even the most extreme boundaries of probability? I know I have bitched in the past about 18 year careers with no triples hit despite abundant doubles and stolen bases. The threads that detail quaint SO/BB ratios are rampant. Hopefully someone within the development team can offer some insight as to how-or if-these bizarre statistical mutations are being addressed. Why invest hours of effort into creating a baseball universe only to have all that investment rendered pointless because the output has absolutely no grounding in any remote shading of reality?

This is not an attempt to nuke Markus ( whom I admire for even attempting so ambitious a project ) or OOTP, so kindly refrain from firing up the flamethrowers. Nobody wants this dog to hunt more than I, but it just kills the experience when the results are so impossible.

sox9418 · 02-05-2003, 01:42 PM

Just a quick comment rogmax11 - check out Jose Canseco's career. Only 14 triples in 17 years, despite his 40/40 numbers. I can see a player going without one in a career.

I do think the hits/IP ratio in his last year was strange, though.

TwinsFan · 02-05-2003, 01:43 PM

Yeah that kind of career is totally unrealistic. 38 hits in 253 innings! I suspect it may be a bug however.

edm · 02-05-2003, 02:00 PM

Maybe he got amnesia during the off-season and forgot how to pitch...

JAttractive · 02-05-2003, 02:01 PM

Yes this sounds like a bug especially with his sudden disappearance to A ball and the 10 in doubles rating. I think his ratings were messed up somehow.

VT Os fan · 02-05-2003, 03:18 PM

I would suspect a drug or alcohol problem. Get them man to rehab before he loses his house and family!

Eric · 02-05-2003, 03:41 PM

Two thoughts come to mind:

1. He's on heckuva knuckleballer. But that still won't account for the low strikeouts.

2. He made a deal with the devil and it expired in 2008.

ej66 · 02-05-2003, 03:43 PM

4/1/2008

New York Mets
Released P Dusty Bergman

edm · 02-05-2003, 03:48 PM

pick him up and stick him in A-Ball. maybe he'll make a rebound.

ej66 · 02-05-2003, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TwinsFan
Yeah that kind of career is totally unrealistic. 38 hits in 253 innings! I suspect it may be a bug however.

It seems to be a bug. I found a second player.

This one had given up only 96 hits in 250+ IP. He still has his stats intacts, unlike Dusty who just bottomed out.

The new "bugged" player has 10's in Runs, Hits, and Doubles, but when you look at his talent, the ratings for Runs and Doubles are missing. Dusty, however, was "Poor" in both Hits and Doubles.

BTW, I'm using the GForce/Rolen #3 version of the rosters. Both players are listed in there, so these aren't game generated players.

sixto · 02-05-2003, 04:35 PM

Dusty Bergman!

TwinsFan · 02-05-2003, 04:51 PM

Guess you could say Bergmans career was tainted

rangers85 · 02-05-2003, 05:17 PM

ej, check out my story in the dynasty forum about Bergman. I think he finished one season in my league throwing about 10 no hitters in the same season. They started coming in June and it seemed he only missed a few starts after that without a no hitter.

Quote:

Originally posted by ej66
I just happened to notice a player in my league with an amazingly strange career.

The player was Dusty Bergman. He started his career at the age of 27 with Anaheim. He was named to the 2005 All Star team then dealt to the Mets at the trading deadline. He ended the season 9-13 with a 3.92 ERA, pitching in 216 innings with only 146 hits allowed. His big problem was walks, he allowed 93 BB while only striking out 54.

At age 28, he 's still with the Mets. This season, he goes 17-11 with a 3.11 ERA in 263 innings. Once again, he's tough to get a hit off, allowing only 125 this season. But he's also allowing tons of walks, 113 this season with only 66 k's.

In 2007, Dusty finally becomes a star. He goes 19-4 with a record 1.10 ERA. He completes 17 of his 30 starts with 7 shutouts and *6* no hitters (yes, that's right....he had 6 no hitters during the season, 3 in June, and 1 in July, Aug, and Sept). He only gives up 38 hits in 253 innings. Again, he gives up over 100 walks in a season with only 63 k's. He makes the All Star team and is named the 2007 Cy Young winner.

I run thru the pre-season part of the 2008 season. I'm looking thru the Mets roster to find him and he's gone from the starting rotation. No mention of him signing with another team and no trades. I check the Mets minor league roster and he's sitting on the Single A roster, with all of his stats bottomed out (except that he was still a 10 in avoiding doubles). He goes from being the best pitcher in the league to nothing in one offseason.

BTW, 27 of the 38 hits he gave up in 2007 were home runs.

Markus Heinsohn · 02-05-2003, 05:22 PM

Well, the guy should get one nickname... "Bug"

Draft Dodger · 02-05-2003, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Markus Heinsohn
Well, the guy should get one nickname... "Bug"

a much better nickname than "Feature"

billycola · 02-05-2003, 07:04 PM

isn't there a bug where if a rating is 10 it can suddenly go to a 1? i thought i saw Vida Blue go from a 10 to 1 in homers using ootp3.

ctorg · 02-06-2003, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ej66
It seems to be a bug. I found a second player.

This one had given up only 96 hits in 250+ IP. He still has his stats intacts, unlike Dusty who just bottomed out.

The new "bugged" player has 10's in Runs, Hits, and Doubles, but when you look at his talent, the ratings for Runs and Doubles are missing. Dusty, however, was "Poor" in both Hits and Doubles.

BTW, I'm using the GForce/Rolen #3 version of the rosters. Both players are listed in there, so these aren't game generated players.

Ahh... I've had this happen before. OOTP occasionally has a problem importing pitchers. I'm not sure of the reason for it, but I've seen it happen a bunch of times. Some pitchers get imported with no talent ratings and end up with really messed up stats. I've only had it happen with custom databases, not the official Lahman database. I think it has something to do with the pitcher having too many at bats as a hitter -- I may be off there, but it was something like that, if I remember.

Anyway, what I would do when I was having those problems was check all the pitchers on all the teams for their talent ratings. If someone had none, I gave them all "Poor" ratings. Then, eventually, I figured out what was wrong, which I think is what I said above, but I'm not sure, and I fixed the DB itself.

02-05-2003, 12:38 PM	#1
ej66 Bat Boy Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 19	Wierdest career ever? I just happened to notice a player in my league with an amazingly strange career. The player was Dusty Bergman. He started his career at the age of 27 with Anaheim. He was named to the 2005 All Star team then dealt to the Mets at the trading deadline. He ended the season 9-13 with a 3.92 ERA, pitching in 216 innings with only 146 hits allowed. His big problem was walks, he allowed 93 BB while only striking out 54. At age 28, he 's still with the Mets. This season, he goes 17-11 with a 3.11 ERA in 263 innings. Once again, he's tough to get a hit off, allowing only 125 this season. But he's also allowing tons of walks, 113 this season with only 66 k's. In 2007, Dusty finally becomes a star. He goes 19-4 with a record 1.10 ERA. He completes 17 of his 30 starts with 7 shutouts and 6 no hitters (yes, that's right....he had 6 no hitters during the season, 3 in June, and 1 in July, Aug, and Sept). He only gives up 38 hits in 253 innings. Again, he gives up over 100 walks in a season with only 63 k's. He makes the All Star team and is named the 2007 Cy Young winner. I run thru the pre-season part of the 2008 season. I'm looking thru the Mets roster to find him and he's gone from the starting rotation. No mention of him signing with another team and no trades. I check the Mets minor league roster and he's sitting on the Single A roster, with all of his stats bottomed out (except that he was still a 10 in avoiding doubles). He goes from being the best pitcher in the league to nothing in one offseason. BTW, 27 of the 38 hits he gave up in 2007 were home runs.

02-05-2003, 01:43 PM	#6
TwinsFan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Some planet in outer space Posts: 199	Yeah that kind of career is totally unrealistic. 38 hits in 253 innings! I suspect it may be a bug however. __________________ OOTP 22 OOTP 21 OOTP 20

02-05-2003, 03:18 PM	#9
VT Os fan Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Virginia Tech (Blacksburg, Virginia) Posts: 226	I would suspect a drug or alcohol problem. Get them man to rehab before he loses his house and family! __________________ "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." -- Ayn Rand

02-05-2003, 04:51 PM	#15
TwinsFan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Some planet in outer space Posts: 199	Guess you could say Bergmans career was tainted __________________ OOTP 22 OOTP 21 OOTP 20

02-05-2003, 07:04 PM	#19
billycola Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: CA Posts: 171	isn't there a bug where if a rating is 10 it can suddenly go to a 1? i thought i saw Vida Blue go from a 10 to 1 in homers using ootp3. __________________ Bill Heckel Jr. NARBL-NL President/Pittsburgh Pirates (1977-90) 1985 NARBL Champs 1979, '83-84, '90 Wild Card 1981-82, '85-87 AL East Champs CIBA Houston Astros (1970-71) 1970 CIBA Champs CDL-AL Prez/Boston Red Sox (1969-01) 1973, '84, '00 AL Pennant 1971, '73, '76, '84-89, '98-00 AL East Champs NAHHBL-NL Prez/Chicago Cubs (1980-99) 1995 NL Pennant 1994-98 NL Central Champs UBL Boston Red Sox (1934-36) 1934-35 FL East Champs 1935 FL Pennant WLB Bogota Guerrillas (2014-15)

02-05-2003, 12:46 PM	#2
Stealth Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 144	WHAT? What in the world happened to him? Something like this happened to Mark Mulder in my solo league. He pitched very well in the 2003 season going 12-5 with a 3.13 era before getting a season ending injury. I can't recall what the injury was, but it dealt with the arm. Anyway, the next season all his ratings were down around 0 to 2. Throughout the next five years he stayed in the A's minor league system working his way back to having ratings between 1-3. Since his injury he has appeared in a few games as a pro with an ERA over 9. Pretty depressing if ya ask me.

02-05-2003, 01:14 PM	#3
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I've had those things happen. Gotta love the randomness in the game. It makes things more interesting. But that guy Bergman really did have a strange career, with that incredible H/IP ratio in his last season. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

02-05-2003, 01:27 PM	#4
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,320	If something like this happened in my league I would be enormously pissed. It's bad enough to have stat deviations of the 263 IP/ 125 HA variety, but to follow that up with crap like 38 hits, 6 no-hitters, sub-zero era.... What is the point of a simulation engine that defies even the most extreme boundaries of probability? I know I have bitched in the past about 18 year careers with no triples hit despite abundant doubles and stolen bases. The threads that detail quaint SO/BB ratios are rampant. Hopefully someone within the development team can offer some insight as to how-or if-these bizarre statistical mutations are being addressed. Why invest hours of effort into creating a baseball universe only to have all that investment rendered pointless because the output has absolutely no grounding in any remote shading of reality? This is not an attempt to nuke Markus ( whom I admire for even attempting so ambitious a project ) or OOTP, so kindly refrain from firing up the flamethrowers. Nobody wants this dog to hunt more than I, but it just kills the experience when the results are so impossible.

02-05-2003, 01:42 PM	#5
sox9418 Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 323	Just a quick comment rogmax11 - check out Jose Canseco's career. Only 14 triples in 17 years, despite his 40/40 numbers. I can see a player going without one in a career. I do think the hits/IP ratio in his last year was strange, though.

02-05-2003, 02:00 PM	#7
edm All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,999	Maybe he got amnesia during the off-season and forgot how to pitch...

02-05-2003, 02:01 PM	#8
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,135	Yes this sounds like a bug especially with his sudden disappearance to A ball and the 10 in doubles rating. I think his ratings were messed up somehow.

02-05-2003, 03:41 PM	#10
Eric All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: Folsom, CA Posts: 1,234	Two thoughts come to mind: 1. He's on heckuva knuckleballer. But that still won't account for the low strikeouts. 2. He made a deal with the devil and it expired in 2008.

02-05-2003, 03:43 PM	#11
ej66 Bat Boy Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 19	4/1/2008 New York Mets Released P Dusty Bergman

02-05-2003, 03:48 PM	#12
edm All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,999	pick him up and stick him in A-Ball. maybe he'll make a rebound.

02-05-2003, 04:35 PM	#14
sixto Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,273	Dusty Bergman!

02-05-2003, 05:22 PM	#17
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	Well, the guy should get one nickname... "Bug"