Cannot Demote Major Leaguers

[afail]

Originally Posted by Zeyes

No he does not, if you're able to get him passed through outright waivers.

correct and if OOTP wants to differ with real life, i am ok with it, but it needs to be outlined when the player receives a major league contract. technically it would mean that as soon a player is placed on the 25 man roster he has a major league contract... however, i think the game is saying that once a player signs a non auto-generated contract (i.e the cheap years or arbitration) he is a major leaguer forever, which is sort of dumb

[Extravaboy]

I play with the newest patch (that came today) and there is still a bug during transaction. Even if you waive a player on the 40-man and put him on the DFA, you can not remove him from the 40man. The game tells me that the player has a ML contract and needs to stay on the secondary roster.

[TC Dale]

Has the waiver period ended when you tried to remove him?

[Extravaboy]

Originally Posted by TC Dale

Has the waiver period ended when you tried to remove him?

Yes it had. It was set to 3 days and it said that he had cleared waivers. But I was still not able to move him off the 40-man roster.

[brookslag]

I have the same exact issue, with most recent patch. (It also happened prior to that.)

You see news items saying that CPU teams "waived Player X, designated him for assignment, and removed him from the 40-man roster". When you try to do the same thing as a human, it behaves exactly as described above: the player clears waivers, you assign him from the DFA list, and the games says "Player has ML contract and must be on secondary roster." You then have to assign him to the 40-man again before doing anything, thereforre making the whole process of waiving/DFA useless (and an unnecessary risk) in this particular situation.

I don't think that's correct.

Thanks.

[Zeyes]

I must admit it's rather irritating that this problem persists...the ability to outright players off your 40-man roster is a pretty darn integral part of roster management, and I really hope there's a chance that this will be fixed in time for the final Patch 2 release.

[Solty]

Everyone, just for clarity's sake, I think this is what we are all trying to say:

How the game currently works (even after the 7/20 patch) -- (The following assumes the base case in which a player has options, cannot refuse assignment, but has a Major League contract, and is currently playing in AAA) once a player has been put on the 40 man roster the *only* ways to remove him from the 40 man are:

1). Trade him
2). Release him

In addition, you can *temporarily* remove him from the 40 man by designating him for assignment (DFA'ing) him, but after his 10 days of being DFA'ed are up, you're faced with the following three options:

1). Trade him
2). Release him
3). Put him back on the 40 man, and then you can put him in the minors (in other words, revert back to the way things were at the start).

The way it *should* work is that you should have a third option above to permanently remove him from the 40 man:

1). Trade him
2). Release hiim
3). Follow this process:
Step 3-1). Put him on waivers.
Step 3-2). Wait for him to clear waivers.
Step 3-3). Once the player has cleared waivers, you should be able to remove him from the 40 man, even if he has a Major League contract.

Again, this is how it *should* be, not how it *is currently*.

For historical reference, in OOTP6.5, I found the game far too easy, so I limited my methods of player acquisition to just the draft, signing minor league free agents, and waiver claims. One of my favorite things was to claim other teams players (whether they had a major league or minor league contract) on waivers, put them through waivers myself, put them on the 40 man, demote them to AAA, and then remove them from the 40 man. I was also doing this with OOTP 2006 prior to the first patch, and was not pleased when it was changed.

Hope this helps.

Solty

[Solty]

Originally Posted by Zeyes

I must admit it's rather irritating that this problem persists...the ability to outright players off your 40-man roster is a pretty darn integral part of roster management, and I really hope there's a chance that this will be fixed in time for the final Patch 2 release.

Zeyes: You got that right. I think everyone got hung up on this whole "When you add a player to the 40 man should he be given a Major League minimum ($300,000) contract?" question, which relative to this is trivial. I mean, who cares if you have to shell out an extra $300K? The roster space is much more valuable. The ability to claim another team's castoffs, put them through waivers, and then let them get playing time in your minors *without* using 40 man space is much more valuable.

Can we please get some acknowledgement that this problem is being fixed? A TT# would be good. A sticky from SI clarifying their acknowledgement of how things are vs. how things will be after the next patch would be even better. I've seen a half dozen threads on this question already.

[afail]

i have been desperatly trying to get this acknowledged. no one seems to care

[Elendil]

Is this a bug? I thought you could outright guys on the active roster if their options have run out, so long as they clear waivers (and they don't have a right to refuse demotion or have given their permission to be demoted), but that they would have to stay on the 40-man roster after demotion.

[afail]

check out ryan vogelsong of the pirates, fine example of what we want to be able to do. dfa'ed, cleared, AAA, no 40 man slot

[Solty]

Originally Posted by Elendil

Is this a bug? I thought you could outright guys on the active roster if their options have run out, so long as they clear waivers (and they don't have a right to refuse demotion or have given their permission to be demoted), but that they would have to stay on the 40-man roster after demotion.

This is another question. This is asking if we can demote a guy from the bigs to the minors once he's out of options. What we're asking is why can't we remove a guy from the 40 man.

[Solty]

Originally Posted by afail

check out ryan vogelsong of the pirates, fine example of what we want to be able to do. dfa'ed, cleared, AAA, no 40 man slot

EXACTLY! Great example.

[battists]

OK, please pretend I'm stupid for a sec. (Or don't pretend, it may be true.)

What SHOULD happen, step by step?

I will get this logged as a high priority today.

[battists]

Is this the same thing as is being discussed here?

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=127809

[Extravaboy]

Originally Posted by battists

OK, please pretend I'm stupid for a sec. (Or don't pretend, it may be true.)

What SHOULD happen, step by step?

I will get this logged as a high priority today.

What I understand from reading the game manual is that when you want to remove a player from the 40-man roster, you must take the player through outright waivers. That means put him on the waivers list and on the DFA list which clears up a spot on the 40man roster. When the player clears waivers, you should be free to demote him from the DFA list to the minor leagues. The player has right to refuse such demotion if he has 5 years of ML service time. In that case, he would elect free agency.

What happens is that the latter part of the transcation does not work. You can place a player on the waivers and DFA to take him off the 40man roster, but after he clears waivers, you are forced to replace him on the 40man by the game: "The player has a major league contract and have to be on the 40-man roster."

When the computer-controlled teams designates players for assignment as described above, their player's contracts are remade into a minor league contracts and available for minor league assignments. But for human-controlled teams, that does not happen. The human-controlled player keeps his major league contract even after clearing waivers and the human GM is left with no other option but either replacing the player on the 40-man roster or releasing the player.

[Extravaboy]

Originally Posted by Solty

Everyone, just for clarity's sake, I think this is what we are all trying to say:

How the game currently works (even after the 7/20 patch) -- (The following assumes the base case in which a player has options, cannot refuse assignment, but has a Major League contract, and is currently playing in AAA) once a player has been put on the 40 man roster the *only* ways to remove him from the 40 man are:

1). Trade him
2). Release him

In addition, you can *temporarily* remove him from the 40 man by designating him for assignment (DFA'ing) him, but after his 10 days of being DFA'ed are up, you're faced with the following three options:

1). Trade him
2). Release him
3). Put him back on the 40 man, and then you can put him in the minors (in other words, revert back to the way things were at the start).

The way it *should* work is that you should have a third option above to permanently remove him from the 40 man:

1). Trade him
2). Release hiim
3). Follow this process:
Step 3-1). Put him on waivers.
Step 3-2). Wait for him to clear waivers.
Step 3-3). Once the player has cleared waivers, you should be able to remove him from the 40 man, even if he has a Major League contract.

Again, this is how it *should* be, not how it *is currently*.

For historical reference, in OOTP6.5, I found the game far too easy, so I limited my methods of player acquisition to just the draft, signing minor league free agents, and waiver claims. One of my favorite things was to claim other teams players (whether they had a major league or minor league contract) on waivers, put them through waivers myself, put them on the 40 man, demote them to AAA, and then remove them from the 40 man. I was also doing this with OOTP 2006 prior to the first patch, and was not pleased when it was changed.

Hope this helps.

Solty

The game guide 20.3.2 states that a player with a Major League contract has to be on the 40-man roster. I believe the computer's players have their contracts remade into minor league contracts when they get ourtighted. That is what is needed to get them availabe for demotion. But that doesn't happen to human-controlled players.

[afail]

Originally Posted by Extravaboy

What I understand from reading the game manual is that when you want to remove a player from the 40-man roster, you must take the player through outright waivers. That means put him on the waivers list and on the DFA list which clears up a spot on the 40man roster. When the player clears waivers, you should be free to demote him from the DFA list to the minor leagues. The player has right to refuse such demotion if he has 5 years of ML service time. In that case, he would elect free agency.

What happens is that the latter part of the transcation does not work. You can place a player on the waivers and DFA to take him off the 40man roster, but after he clears waivers, you are forced to replace him on the 40man by the game: "The player has a major league contract and have to be on the 40-man roster."

When the computer-controlled teams designates players for assignment as described above, their player's contracts are remade into a minor league contracts and available for minor league assignments. But for human-controlled teams, that does not happen. The human-controlled player keeps his major league contract even after clearing waivers and the human GM is left with no other option but either replacing the player on the 40-man roster or releasing the player.

exactly correct

[brookslag]

Originally Posted by battists

Is this the same thing as is being discussed here?

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=127809

Yes, I think it is. Thanks for the help, Steve. Hopefully this one gets corrected, too. It seems to work great for CPU-controlled teams, but us lowly humans can't remove guys from the 40-man, even when we follow the exact same procedure the CPU teams do.

[bp_]

Originally Posted by Extravaboy

When the computer-controlled teams designates players for assignment as described above, their player's contracts are remade into a minor league contracts and available for minor league assignments. But for human-controlled teams, that does not happen. The human-controlled player keeps his major league contract even after clearing waivers and the human GM is left with no other option but either replacing the player on the 40-man roster or releasing the player.

Would you agree that this is still wrong in relation to how MLB handles it? The guy's contract (in MLB) doesn't turn into a mlc, he keeps getting paid his salary. After all, it was a guaranteed contract that he signed.